Soloability and End Game

paynesgrey · 02-07-2011 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus_Dex

I for one am having problem with the end game content . I play solo most of the time , but have tried to find a team to do the Trapdoor mission several times. This is on Triumph server at various times from Saturday at 2- 4 pm a Wesdneday evening from 6 to 8 pm . And other time as as late as Midnight. When this content went live I was still doing Praetorian missions. Lots of players were doing the Incarnates missions . Now finding anyone doing these on Triumph or Protector has been impossible for me. Others might say find a team , I have tried forming a teams or joining with no luck so far. So this content is inacceesible so far to me. Soloing a tleast gives you an option to move forwartd and explore content when teams are hard to find.

Side note on Trapdoor: I've solo'd him w/ 2 blasters, a Fire/Fire and a AR/Dev. Main Trick 1 is to whack his clones when he bifurcates, quick as you can. 2nd thing is to knock him into the lava, at which point he's pretty easy.

Grouchybeast · 02-07-2011 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus_Dex

I play solo most of the time , but have tried to find a team to do the Trapdoor mission several times. This is on Triumph server at various times from Saturday at 2- 4 pm a Wesdneday evening from 6 to 8 pm.

You really don't need a full team -- two people is absolutely ample for any of the Ramiel missions. People on Defiant just seem to give a shout on the server global channel if they're having problems with one of the missions, and I've never seen someone not hop in to help them get past the problem encounter, be it Trapdoor or Holtz and Honoree. You might well have more luck with that than with trying to find someone who wants to run through the whole arc.

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Optimus_Dex · 02-07-2011 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paynesgrey

Side note on Trapdoor: I've solo'd him w/ 2 blasters, a Fire/Fire and a AR/Dev. Main Trick 1 is to whack his clones when he bifurcates, quick as you can. 2nd thing is to knock him into the lava, at which point he's pretty easy.

Intresting , I have made it past Trapdoor once witn a Mastermind but can't get him past the next mission with the Honoree. I guess I should be hesitant to say I've failed Trapdoor using a Widow and a Scrapper. But at 57 with arthritis maybe I just don't have the operating speed .

Rabid_M · 02-07-2011 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearsinger

You can either post it here, since this thread is one created by the devs for such discussion, or you can make a new post in the Suggestions area.

I figured there was a more focused thread going, but I'll just say it here, then. Thanks.

For a solo option, starting with Issue 20 I would suggest adding in a new reward choice for level 50 Morality Missions that gives you an item (let's call it "Fluffy") instead of the normal rewards you get for reconfirming your current morality. Three Fluffies can be combined to form one Notice of the Well.

Anyone with the Alpha unlock can get a Fluffy with a bit of work. But to get three for the full Notice of the Well will take at least six days, a close match for the WST timer of one week. It will also mean giving up the rewards you'd normally get from the Morality missions, and 3 Alignment Merits is a pretty high "cost" for a lot of solo players, but one they can still pay.

Six days, 33 missions, and giving up the chance to have 3 Alignment Merits seems like a fair balance for one Notice of the Well to me.

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paynesgrey · 02-07-2011 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus_Dex

Intresting , I have made it past Trapdoor once witn a Mastermind but can't get him past the next mission with the Honoree. I guess I should be hesitant to say I've failed Trapdoor using a Widow and a Scrapper. But at 57 with arthritis maybe I just don't have the operating speed .

Honoree was a nightmare, involving lots of purple pills and kiting for what seemed like forever. Best to get a friend for that boy. He pretty much mopped the floor with me if I let him get close enough to melee.

Back to the solo-unfriendlyness of Shards. I don't have a problem with raids and TF's getting the pieces much faster, but I want to be able to solo them at a reasonable rate without having to revert to grind farms. After a while it becomes "How many moss snakes to get my next shard..." and that's really no longer "fun."

Blue_Mourning · 02-07-2011 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabid_Metroid

I figured there was a more focused thread going, but I'll just say it here, then. Thanks.

For a solo option, starting with Issue 20 I would suggest adding in a new reward choice for level 50 Morality Missions that gives you an item (let's call it "Fluffy") instead of the normal rewards you get for reconfirming your current morality. Three Fluffies can be combined to form one Notice of the Well.

Anyone with the Alpha unlock can get a Fluffy with a bit of work. But to get three for the full Notice of the Well will take at least six days, a close match for the WST timer of one week. It will also mean giving up the rewards you'd normally get from the Morality missions, and 3 Alignment Merits is a pretty high "cost" for a lot of solo players, but one they can still pay.

Six days, 33 missions, and giving up the chance to have 3 Alignment Merits seems like a fair balance for one Notice of the Well to me.

I don't necessarily agree with that because the well is specifically divorced from any kind of morality system. Therefore by doing morality missions, I'm not sure it should specifically reward incarnate content anymore than dropping incarnate shards, which all level 50 content does.

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Rabid_M · 02-08-2011 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning

I don't necessarily agree with that because the well is specifically divorced from any kind of morality system. Therefore by doing morality missions, I'm not sure it should specifically reward incarnate content anymore than dropping incarnate shards, which all level 50 content does.

It would work for any of the 4 alignments, though, so it's not really rewarding a specific morality, just the effort.

I'm just tossing it out as an idea of what might work for earning the Notice while solo. The cost/effort felt about right to me. I'll be more than open to other ideas of how to do it solo, naturally.

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Toony · 02-08-2011 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer

Well, I guess you're the expert in developing a MMO.

Oh it's quite possible. It's also possible that I will be struck by lightning right this moment. It's just incredibly unlikely and banking on it/acting like it's almost certain is dishonest at best and stupid at worst.

As for people who cannot solo trapdoor (quite possible. Bragging you could beat the guy with your super spike damaging blaster isn't saying much.) My suggestion is mission skip (if available for that mission. Never done it) and then wait several days and mission skip the hero 1 mission.

Eva Destruction · 02-08-2011 09:02 PM

Quote:

I'm just tossing it out as an idea of what might work for earning the Notice while solo. The cost/effort felt about right to me. I'll be more than open to other ideas of how to do it solo, naturally.

Reward merits. Let's say....pulling a number out of the air....75-100 merits. And 50 million inf, just because we need more inf sinks. You can only earn one Notice, through whatever method, in each WST cycle.

It's soloable, it's not realy fast or "easy," the WST is still the fastest way, teaming up for non-WST TFs is second-fastest, soloing is slowest. It doesn't require adding another currency, and it can't be achieved through demon farming. Frankly, I'll take an Apex and a Tin Mage with a side of ITF over a down-powered slog through Sister Psyche's Neverending Freakshow Buffet any day.

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Eiko-chan · 02-08-2011 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toony

My suggestion is mission skip (if available for that mission. Never done it)

Trapdoor's mission cannot be skipped - thus why it became a minor forum flare-up.

MrHassenpheffer · 02-08-2011 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eva Destruction

Reward merits. Let's say....pulling a number out of the air....75-100 merits. And 50 million inf, just because we need more inf sinks. You can only earn one Notice, through whatever method, in each WST cycle.

It's soloable, it's not realy fast or "easy," the WST is still the fastest way, teaming up for non-WST TFs is second-fastest, soloing is slowest. It doesn't require adding another currency, and it can't be achieved through demon farming. Frankly, I'll take an Apex and a Tin Mage with a side of ITF over a down-powered slog through Sister Psyche's Neverending Freakshow Buffet any day.

I would prefer the notice to require Incarnate shards or salvage for crafting. At least keep it incarnate related and not require a large number of merits, a large number of shards, fine, merits...maybe not so much.

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Captain_Karate · 02-09-2011 11:07 AM

I like soloing personally. It's why I chose a scrapper for my first ever hero character, and a stalker for my first ever villain. I liked their survivability, and non dependence on other toons for support. I don't like the idea that "you have" to team if you want to get the rare/ultra rare incarnate slots. Some people like soloing their 50's. Not everyone likes going online and seeing how big of a team they can form, and let's go fight evil or whatever! 8-)

Even when I don't solo, it doesn't really count because I'm playing with my other toons. I've got 4 accts, and plenty of powerful characters. I can pretty much level up my own characters fairly fast, and I don't need a team to do anything in this game. Oh wait...now I do. :-/

Don't turn this game into WoW with the requirement you have to raid or do team instances to even have a chance at the best gear etc. What's next? Enhancement Score rating for how well you have your powers slotted with high end enhancements? That's why I left WoW. "Looking for tank for ICC. Please link previous achievement badge and GS 6500+ rating" ring a bell? Or, if you do want to keep making us do TF's... can you please also give us soloists an alternate way to also experience the incarnate goodies?

Friggin_Taser · 02-09-2011 12:20 PM

I'm just going to leave this here...

Quote:

For our more casual players, we have added an option for you to continue to build your way up the Incarnate Tree by collecting Incarnate Shards without doing any Incarnate Trials--you will even get Incarnate Shards when you are exemplared down. It will take longer than it will take by participating in Incarnate Trials, and youll miss out on some epic storylines, but you will be able to claim your seat at the Incarnate table nevertheless.

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Eiko-chan · 02-09-2011 12:27 PM

That doesn't address the issue of Notices of the Well. It is a good thing, but it does nothing at all to address the central concern - access to Notices of the Well and the Incarnate abilities locked behind acquiring them.

Friggin_Taser · 02-09-2011 01:36 PM

No, you are just assuming it doesn't address the concern because it's easier to be pessimistic than optimistic.

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EvilGeko · 02-09-2011 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser

No, you are just assuming it doesn't address the concern because it's easier to be pessimistic than optimistic.

Old Timers will recognize the irony of what I'm about to write.

QFE, QFT.

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Friggin_Taser · 02-09-2011 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilGeko

Old Timers will recognize the irony of what I'm about to write.

QFE, QFT.

Man, someone better check the temperature in Hades right now.

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Arcanaville · 02-09-2011 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser

Man, someone better check the temperature in Hades right now.

When the devs added purple recipes and adjusted MoG, I'm pretty sure they broke EvilGeko.

Wait, Taser is an optimist now? I need to go lie down.

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Friggin_Taser · 02-09-2011 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

When the devs added purple recipes and adjusted MoG, I'm pretty sure they broke EvilGeko.

Wait, Taser is an optimist now? I need to go lie down.

I've always been an optimist about the game (Recluse Strike Force the exception that proves the rule).

I've just been a pessimist about these forums.

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EvilGeko · 02-09-2011 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

When the devs added purple recipes and adjusted MoG, I'm pretty sure they broke EvilGeko.

Wait, Taser is an optimist now? I need to go lie down.

I still don't really believe they changed MoG. Even when I'm using it, I'm still delighted.

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ShadowsBetween · 02-09-2011 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser

No, you are just assuming it doesn't address the concern because it's easier to be pessimistic than optimistic.

I'm assuming it doesn't address purple shards until they specifically state that it does. As in, clearly, indisputably state it. The quoted line is not clearly stating "you'll be able to craft a Notice of the Well from normal Incarnate shards." And until they say *exactly* that, as far as I can see the rare boosts are still locked behind mandatory team content.

paynesgrey · 02-09-2011 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser

I'm just going to leave this here...

I think we all pretty much realize that Incarnate slotting is "do-able" solo. The question is will it be require such an entardment causing grind that it will bring back not so fond memories of grinding those wretched Hill Giants in the Rathe Mountains to scrounge enough money for my next spell. (I've not done enough "serious" playing with my 50 to really have a strong opinion of the drop rate yet, but what I did do last weekend hasn't left me optimistic. I'm not raging here, just peering suspiciously at the expiration date on the carton.)

To me it seems that grouping and task forces are plenty popular, but this has an initial whiff that suggests that the devs are making Incarnate system a choke point where soloer's hit a wall of grind to progress in any recognizable. I'm having trouble not seeing this less as "exciting new end game content!" and more as "Exciting new end game raids, and we'll let the solo and casual players lick the bowl when we're done."

Again, I've not done a heavy enough block of dedicate lvl 50 soloing lately to really have a strong opinion of the drop rate, and I recognize it's a new system so it will take some licking, kicking, and tickling before they get it settled to a balanced state. I'm willing to wait around a bit and see. (Well, at least until my latest crop of alts loses my attention.)

Friggin_Taser · 02-09-2011 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween

I'm assuming it doesn't address purple shards until they specifically state that it does. As in, clearly, indisputably state it. The quoted line is not clearly stating "you'll be able to craft a Notice of the Well from normal Incarnate shards." And until they say *exactly* that, as far as I can see the rare boosts are still locked behind mandatory team content.

Man, reading comprehension is not your strong point, is it, Little Miss Sunshine?

Quote:

In issue 20, you will be able to craft all abilities from the Incarnate trees that are available via Incarnate Trials using Incarnate Shards and some INF. It will take longer than it will take getting components via the trials, but you will be able collect the shards as you play everything(!) else in the game to offset that. If you mix in the occasional Incarnate Trial you will make more progress.

Unless you personally want Second Measures to write you a handwritten note spelling out things normal people already figured out using common sense, you are now just fuming for the sake of fuming.

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Friggin_Taser · 02-09-2011 09:38 PM

Quote:

To me it seems that grouping and task forces are plenty popular, but this has an initial whiff that suggests that the devs are making Incarnate system a choke point where soloer's hit a wall of grind to progress in any recognizable. I'm having trouble not seeing this less as "exciting new end game content!" and more as "Exciting new end game raids, and we'll let the solo and casual players lick the bowl when we're done."

You can't have it both ways. Soloers, since the idea of end game raids have started, have cried for a way, any way, to progress without having to team.

Now you have that.

Will it be slower than teaming? Darn right it will be. But you also get to go at your own pace, don't have to put up with other people, etc.

There's never going to be a world where a solo player can achieve all possible incarnate abilities as fast as a team player, just like how a solo player will level up slower than a person who runs constantly in an 8 person team doing all TFs and trials available to them.

The solo community asked for a way, no matter how slow, to progress their character. They now have that. If it's too slow for any solo player, might I recommend one of the lovely trials they have put so much time and resources into? It's as easy to join as clicking a button to join a queue, no global channels or SG teammates needed. Even the most casual of players can do that.

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ShadowsBetween · 02-09-2011 10:02 PM

[QUOTE=Friggin_Taser;3477186]Man, reading comprehension is not your strong point, is it, Little Miss Sunshine?

Way to be insulting, dung rat. I don't care enough about this issue any more to scan the boards for every post related to it, and I hadn't seen whatever post that quote came from. Yes, I guess they are going to allow us to craft the rare pieces now. But honestly, I find that I don't care anymore. It's clear that the Incarnate system isn't meant for me. So I'm done with it. I might unlock the Alpha slot on my other level 50. If I do, maybe in a few years I'll have accumulated the hundreds of shards it'll take to craft my way up to the Very Rare. And maybe not. It doesn't matter anymore. You, and everyone like you, wins. I give up.