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Must have been someone not familiar with the STF; the "final 4" patrons in the STF, Ghost Widow, Mako, Scirrocco and Black Scorpion always spawn at lvl 54, as does Lord Recluse. Thats one reason that TF has never been as popular as the ITF, its pretty challenging, and some teams stall out at Mako (high defense), Ghost Widow (big melee heal), or Lord Recluse (hits cheatyface hard), all obstacles that can be extra hard to overcome because everything you do to a +4 foe is half strength, damage, debuffs, etc. |
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
They spawned at lvl 54 I was told by people on team at the time on the second run that normally they don't, I was told that they were @54 because it was the weekly.
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As originally designed, the LRSF also had lvl 54 AVs, with the added challenge that (1) no redside characters are as tough as tanks, as damagy as blasters, as good at buff/debuff as defenders, etc. and (2) its quite hard to separate the 8 final AVs without special tricks like perma-dom Mind dominators. They eventually lowered the final AVs down to only level 53s, and a lot wider variety of teams can run it now.
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Originally Posted by ArchLight
My 2 INF on this is teaming has been getting harder. Finding people who want to team or finding enough to do a specific TF can be hard sometimes especially later at night. It took an hour to get together a LRTF on Tueday night and we had one helpful guy who was only on the team long enough to get the TF started.
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In general yes, but this week I haven't been able to log on without someone dragging me into a TF.
The subject of this tread is Soloability and End Game. I've been thinking about that and here is what I believe.
I believe that tying character advancement to group activity is a mistake. Notice that I did not say team activity, I'm talking about any time it requires more than one person to complete a task whether or not those people are on a team or how many teams are required. I am also not talking about all group activity, only group activity that MUST be completed to advance a characters abilities. Especially if it requires large groups or more than a single team. In the end this will drive away that portion of the community that do not want to do things in groups and that portion of the community that find it difficult or impossible, for whatever reason, to join large group events. Those that find they have been blocked off from advancement, that run into that wall, they WILL leave.
Not only is group activity now required for advancement, but completion of the most difficult content in the game with a group is required, some of which cannot be completed without specific strategies that require specific ATs or possibly even specific team makeups, something that should never have been designed into the game to begin with. After this weeks stupidity that is called the "WTF", and I think the devs named it perfectly, because that is my opinion exactly, here's what I believe. I believe that more groups will fail to complete the tasks than will succeed. I believe that this will cause additional frustration and this WILL cause people to leave. How many times do you think people will attempt something before they will simply give up and find something less frustrating to do.
If they are effectively walled off from advancement they are not going to stick around.
After watching and reading these boards I also believe that CoX has a larger community of people that like to "solo" than we might think. People that may even join groups sometimes but that spend the majority of their time, for whatever reason, playing alone.
Currently I am taking a "let's see what happens" stance, but if CoX continues down the path it is currently on I will be one of those that finds something less frustrating to fill my leisure time.
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They didn't call it that at all - the proper name is WST - Weekly Strike Target |
Originally Posted by Hube02
After this weeks stupidity that is called the "WTF", and I think the devs named it perfectly, because that is my opinion exactly
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Then I retract that part of my statement. I thought it was called the Weekly Task Force, now I look at it they called it the Weekly Strike Target..... In my heart I believe that they chose the name to try and avoid it being called the WTF because they know how we like to abbreviate. However, they still did not avoid it ending up being called that as it is what many people on the channels seem to be calling it, except that it you need to put a space to something between the letters to since the foul language filter catches "WTF".|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They didn't call it that at all - the proper name is WST - Weekly Strike Target
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Anyway, my comment was aimed at the subject of this thread and not what something specific may or may not be called.
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Out of curiosity, what percentage of the playerbase do you believe is so entirely unwilling or unable to take part in a TF that they won't do the three TFs, ever, required to get the Rare Alpha boost? (Or the one TF, ever, required to get the Rare, which gives the level shift.)|
Originally Posted by Hube02
After watching and reading these boards I also believe that CoX has a larger community of people that like to "solo" than we might think. People that may even join groups sometimes but that spend the majority of their time, for whatever reason, playing alone.
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I prefer to solo, myself. But when all I need to get a Rare boost (and the gain from the Very Rare is pretty marginal, so, eh) is one TF, ever, I find it hard to get very worked up about how the devs are marginalizing solo players.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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Unfortunately, there is no way for any of us to ever know that.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Out of curiosity, what percentage of the playerbase do you believe is so entirely unwilling or unable to take part in a TF that they won't do the three TFs, ever, required to get the Rare Alpha boost? (Or the one TF, ever, required to get the Rare, which gives the level shift.)
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My point is that I believe it is wrong to tie character advancement to group activity in CoX. It seems, from what I've read, that players are willing to give up some things that require a group, a particular badge or some mostly insignificant temporary ability, not doing some of the content, whatever. But they do not want to give up being able to advance their character. Requiring group activity to do so puts a barrier where one has never existed before in this game.
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What's your guess? Say, within an order of magnitude. 50%? 5%? 0.5%? 0.05%? (Again, that's people for whom having to run one/three TFs is a deal-breaker that will cause them to leave the game.)
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Originally Posted by Hube02
Unfortunately, there is no way for any of us to ever know that.
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Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
I have trouble scheduling any extended block of time I know will be free of interuptions. I also dislike being shoehorned into PUG's, so I usually only group when some of my SG friends are on. Small but active group, but see issue 1, time for task forces.
So when I hit a point in any game where I must group to make any meaningful progression, I'll tootle around with alts for a while, then just leave. I don't like being told "OK, you've had your solo fun, now you have to group to get anywhere." In fact, I have something of an attitude problem whenever I feel devs are trying to strongarm me into grouping or PvP.
Right now, I'm rolling around with my assorted alts, but when that gets boring and I see shards are just coming too slowly solo, I'll take my money somewhere else for a while. Not a "rage quit", I've left CoX before and usually check the forums/news in 6 months or so to see if things changed. I've always come back to CoX, but how long the "breaks" where another game gets my money has usually depended on how long lasts the dry spell where the only thing with my 50 was TF's or raids.
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I'd estimate 0.05%. The majority of the player base has already seen how the devs eventually give us exactly what we ask for and will remain patient to see a future change, and most of those that choose to leave will be for a series of issues that have stacked up over time. I don't see the TF requirement which has already been stated will not be the only way to get a Notice becoming the sole reason someone will quit the game, especially for longtime players who have already stuck it out here through ED, GDN, the AE farm response, and the PVP revamp.|
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
What's your guess? Say, within an order of magnitude. 50%? 5%? 0.5%? 0.05%? (Again, that's people for whom having to run one/three TFs is a deal-breaker that will cause them to leave the game.)
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That said, I think a few of the people who are waiting for a solo option to come out with I20 are being a little short-sighted and will be disappointed. I'm not saying I don't have faith in the devs, but I think everyone jumped on Black Scorpion's "this is the only way to get drops until I20" and "we will investigate into a solo option" posts and took them to mean something they won't. I believe a solo option will come along, but it's more likely being put on the planning board now, which means it won't see the light of day until I21 or 22.
Global- @SailorET, Justice Server
Sheryl Fiero, 50 AR/Devices Blaster
Louise Fiero, 50 Merc/Traps MM
Various assorted alts
Proudly serving in our military so you don't have to.
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I just wanted to thank you for stating a reasonable expectation, rather than the hopeless optimism for i20 that has heretofore been espoused. If a solo option does come, it most certainly will be in a later issue or rushed out in a hot patch sort of fix like the WST (probably after i20, making it "i20.5", I guess.)
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Originally Posted by SailorET
I believe a solo option will come along, but it's more likely being put on the planning board now, which means it won't see the light of day until I21 or 22.
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That sounds likely. Hopefully, it'll be before I get bored with my Alt-Fu and auction house diddlement.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I just wanted to thank you for stating a reasonable expectation, rather than the hopeless optimism for i20 that has heretofore been espoused. If a solo option does come, it most certainly will be in a later issue or rushed out in a hot patch sort of fix like the WST (probably after i20, making it "i20.5", I guess.)
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Yet another reason to be grateful for the wider variety of MMO's available these days: With all the competition, Developers aren't so quick to say "We'll TELL you what you think is fun! You might not think it's fun, but I'm a Developer, and I'm the one who knows what you like to do! And you'll do it, because there's no other games of this theme out there!" (Yes, I'm still bitter about those EQ corpse runs...)
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Because solo players pay the same amount to play as everyone else. If there was a "group discount" I could see your argument holding water. The Incarnate stuff amounts to levelling. It's not a badge. You should be able to get to it solo.
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Originally Posted by Malkore
Is this thread for reals? I am all about making people complete tf/sf's or even raids to get certain alpha components. This is an MMO, why would everything be obtainable solo?
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I realize this was modified by a Mod but I have read it several times and it doesn't make much sense. Or maybe there are just a couple of words deleted that would help me decipher it.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Thinking that Arcanaville has slightly more input on the direction of particular aspects of the game than most other players is realistic evaluation of presented facts.
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I'm quite confidant that I can figure out what it is supposed to say but not totally sure.
Enjoy your day please.
I have some suggestions on how to add in a solo option for this, but I'm not having any luck finding the right thread for those suggesions. I know there must be one somewhere, though. Can anyone point me towards it, so I can put my suggestions in the right spot?
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
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I'm not sure what it said before editing either (I'm not sure what of my point was edited out. I may have said something about another MMO explicitly - I do that a lot. That could be the only part of a longer post that survived an edit.) |
Originally Posted by BashfulBanshee
I realize this was modified by a Mod but I have read it several times and it doesn't make much sense. Or maybe there are just a couple of words deleted that would help me decipher it.
I'm quite confidant that I can figure out what it is supposed to say but not totally sure. |
Anyway, the point conveyed by what you quoted was simply that there is ample evidence that Arcanaville has provided input that has had direct and demonstrable effects on the game. She, possibly more than any other player that isn't also a member of the development team officially, has direct input on the direction the game takes.
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Originally Posted by Rabid_Metroid
I have some suggestions on how to add in a solo option for this, but I'm not having any luck finding the right thread for those suggesions. I know there must be one somewhere, though. Can anyone point me towards it, so I can put my suggestions in the right spot?
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You can either post it here, since this thread is one created by the devs for such discussion, or you can make a new post in the Suggestions area.
Looks like the most reasonable place to chime in and say I'm plain horrified at the way the Weekly Strike Targets are set up. I am not a fan of task forces in the first place, though I'll go do one with the loose association of players I team with if that's what they want to do. Tying continued advancement in the Incarnate system to TFs like this is one of the most unpleasant surprises CoH has ever handed me.
I've been content to chug along and just accumulate Incarnate shards to build up my incarnate abilities. Pretty grindy, but you could get enough to manage. BUt this... not only requires task forces, but requires MULTIPLE TFs chosen by someone else? I am deeply disappointed.
I don't do PUGs, and it is a rare night indeed when the players I team with can muster 8 people to do TFs. There ARE big events I enjoy doing - the mothership raid is a blast. Sadly those events seem to have been entirely ignored in favor of forcing me to try to scrape together enough people to open bloody TFs I've largely ignored for the 4 1/2 years I've been playing. Put me down on the side of the people advocating a "solo" option, or at least a "significantly smaller than 8" option.
Hunter's Forty-Sixth Rule: If your head explodes, you were thinking too much, otherwise you shouldn't worry about the possibility.
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Why is expecting a solo option in i20 so hopeless and unreasonable?
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I just wanted to thank you for stating a reasonable expectation, rather than the hopeless optimism for i20 that has heretofore been espoused. If a solo option does come, it most certainly will be in a later issue or rushed out in a hot patch sort of fix like the WST (probably after i20, making it "i20.5", I guess.)
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Because Black Scorpion's statements give no reason to expect solo options in i20, and heavily imply that solo options, if forthcoming, shall come later. He speaks of "Trials", which in-game means team tasks (Cathedral of Pain Trial, respec Trial, Cavern of Transcendence Trial, Eden Trial,) and also says they are "investigating" options, which carries the implication that implementation is a future step. Unless i20 is another four or five months away, there's not really time for both "investigation" and "implementation".
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Why is expecting a solo option in i20 so hopeless and unreasonable?
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He also used the word "engage", which is a kinda strage word to use in this context - engaging with the Incarnate system seems to imply some sort of limited invovlement.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I for one am having problem with the end game content . I play solo most of the time , but have tried to find a team to do the Trapdoor mission several times. This is on Triumph server at various times from Saturday at 2- 4 pm a Wesdneday evening from 6 to 8 pm . And other time as as late as Midnight. When this content went live I was still doing Praetorian missions. Lots of players were doing the Incarnates missions . Now finding anyone doing these on Triumph or Protector has been impossible for me. Others might say find a team , I have tried forming a teams or joining with no luck so far. So this content is inacceesible so far to me. Soloing a tleast gives you an option to move forwartd and explore content when teams are hard to find.
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Well, I guess you're the expert in developing a MMO.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Unless i20 is another four or five months away, there's not really time for both "investigation" and "implementation".
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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You can solo Trapdoor. There is no team required.
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Originally Posted by Optimus_Dex
I for one am having problem with the end game content . I play solo most of the time , but have tried to find a team to do the Trapdoor mission several times. This is on Triumph server at various times from Saturday at 2- 4 pm a Wesdneday evening from 6 to 8 pm . And other time as as late as Midnight. When this content went live I was still doing Praetorian missions. Lots of players were doing the Incarnates missions . Now finding anyone doing these on Triumph or Protector has been impossible for me. Others might say find a team , I have tried forming a teams or joining with no luck so far. So this content is inacceesible so far to me. Soloing a tleast gives you an option to move forwartd and explore content when teams are hard to find.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
This is a concern is also for a brand new 50 6 months from now when the old gaurd have all gotten their 50's the new shiny and I am looking to Incarate out my latest 50.
I like to team and nearly always fly my LFT status and have a great time teaming. I solo to fill in the gaps between teams. Some characters are simply not much fun with out the riot a full team creates.
While I like teaming I am leary of content that requires it.
That's all well and good but the WSF won't always be lvl 50 content, so people, outside of the first week, will be running that content for several reasons - XP bonus, Merit bonus, badge credit for the WSF. While I doubt that it'll be run as often as it is this week, it will still be run, and I bet it'll be run at a decent clip. Unless they choose Dr Q, then it'll never be run :P.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA