City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Soloability and End Game

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-01-10 11:44 in Developers' Corner

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toony View Post
And even if the LRSF is "easy" (it isn't), that doesn't change players perceptions that it is hard and needs a very specialized team. I can tell the team leader all day that 5 stalkers will work but he won't believe it.
I want to bite those kind of people...just give me two debuffers for a LRSF...and I'm pretty much good to go, though I felt bad for the Ice Tank that was running with my Invul during the last mission...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toony View Post
The vengeance strategy is one of the oldest for the LRSF.

And it is entirely possible to get on a PUG that just meshes well. My first Apex resulted in a Master of when we weren't even trying, but that doesn't happen often.

And even if the LRSF is "easy" (it isn't), that doesn't change players perceptions that it is hard and needs a very specialized team. I can tell the team leader all day that 5 stalkers will work but he won't believe it.
Well that goes back to the same arguement that most players don't LIKE strategy or thinking. They seem to prefer button mashing which oddly enough seems to be encouraged by latest releases.

I do not understand the decision to make shards drop off all 50+ mobs equally regardless of level. I would have expected every level above 50 mobs to have slightly higher drop rates to encourage people to fight them and maintain challenge. The funny part about that is no one wants Stalkers then either because they want all AoE members LOL.

I can understand SOME of the Stalker hate though. I ran a Regen stalker to 50 and it is PAINFUL. IMO Regen + Stalker just doesn't work due to low hit points (I also don't get Spines + Stalker). My regen got 1 and 2 shotted so much the Hopsital named a teleporter after her. You can only carry so many purples. A poor player would only make this worse. So a weak Stalker that dies on contact could put people off them, especially teams that skip to end mobs and ignore everything else.

So now the end game is determining which ATs you can play.

----------------------------
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence View Post
Well that goes back to the same arguement that most players don't LIKE strategy or thinking. They seem to prefer button mashing which oddly enough seems to be encouraged by latest releases.

I do not understand the decision to make shards drop off all 50+ mobs equally regardless of level. I would have expected every level above 50 mobs to have slightly higher drop rates to encourage people to fight them and maintain challenge. The funny part about that is no one wants Stalkers then either because they want all AoE members LOL.

I can understand SOME of the Stalker hate though. I ran a Regen stalker to 50 and it is PAINFUL. IMO Regen + Stalker just doesn't work due to low hit points (I also don't get Spines + Stalker). My regen got 1 and 2 shotted so much the Hopsital named a teleporter after her. You can only carry so many purples. A poor player would only make this worse. So a weak Stalker that dies on contact could put people off them, especially teams that skip to end mobs and ignore everything else.

So now the end game is determining which ATs you can play.
This, again, I don't really get. After a certain number of AoE's, another AoE just sort of becomes diminishing returns. If we have one or two fire blasters on a team, that should be enough to melt everything but the bosses, and at that point it makes sense to have one or two single target oriented builds to deal with bosses and the like, and to me that means stalkers, scrappers, ST oriented blasters/whatever. Whole teams consisting of AoE's melt spawns, but I kind of wonder just how much damage is needed after the first two AoE oriented builds.

But that might just be me. Anyway, a certain type of person only recruits certain builds and to those people I more or less ignore them. I, on the other hand, will take just about everyone, including that second tank on the STF, or a stalker, or whatever. Most people I've met do that. The regen on a stalker thing might be a problem, but I think you're running into people who just don't know what they're doing when they're putting together teams.

On the toher hand, why don't you just put together one yourself? No one can say "lolstalker" when you make the team.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning View Post
This, again, I don't really get. After a certain number of AoE's, another AoE just sort of becomes diminishing returns. If we have one or two fire blasters on a team, that should be enough to melt everything but the bosses, and at that point it makes sense to have one or two single target oriented builds to deal with bosses and the like, and to me that means stalkers, scrappers, ST oriented blasters/whatever. Whole teams consisting of AoE's melt spawns, but I kind of wonder just how much damage is needed after the first two AoE oriented builds.
Not much if you've got a Stalker with you or the other single-target combos go for the Boss/EB of the group. But, of course, many silly people don't seem to mind needing everyone to fire off a few more AoEs each to get the Boss.

 

Posted

I'm a bit confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
For anyone having trouble with the WST, I'll be running the ITF across all the servers next week, and will be focusing on getting people who have trouble teaming to join.
ITF? But according to Avatea..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatea View Post
February 8th to February 14th - Return of he Reichsman (from Dr. Kahn in Founders' Falls) / Thus Spoke the Reichsman (from Barracuda in Grandville)
..next week we're beating up on Reichsman, not Rommie. And the ITF isn't for the two following weeks, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence View Post
The funny part about that is no one wants Stalkers then either because they want all AoE members LOL.
I would question their knowledge of the game then. Elec and Spines are AoE masters, plus Stalkers have access to more AoE in Patron/Epic Pools.

Quote:
I can understand SOME of the Stalker hate though. I ran a Regen stalker to 50 and it is PAINFUL. IMO Regen + Stalker just doesn't work due to low hit points (I also don't get Spines + Stalker). My regen got 1 and 2 shotted so much the Hopsital named a teleporter after her. You can only carry so many purples. A poor player would only make this worse. So a weak Stalker that dies on contact could put people off them, especially teams that skip to end mobs and ignore everything else.
Regen is a reaction secondary, so if you have a slow reaction, yeah, you're going to die. Though some cases makes it irrelevant...like AV fights...Regen has barely any resistances so they can be pretty easily two-shotted, it doesn't matter if it's a Stalker, a Scrapper would be done in just the same.

Quote:
So now the end game is determining which ATs you can play.
No, it doesn't determine anything. We've done this dance many times with the LRSF, STF and even the ITF, that line of thought has been proven wrong many many times.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
No, it doesn't determine anything. We've done this dance many times with the LRSF, STF and even the ITF, that line of thought has been proven wrong many many times.
A long time ago I ended up tanking Rommie + Fluffies with my MA/En Stalker during a particularly underpowered ITF. Good times.

As far as soloability (or small-teamability even) let us start TFs and SFs with whatever number of people we want!

Probably won't happen, but it won't hurt to throw it out there :grin:

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Posted

Just a heads up

Rommie and his pet farts will be +4 no matter the original settings.

*currently stocking up on backup radios, Shivan shards, and anything else I can get my hands on.*

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
Just a heads up

Rommie and his pet farts will be +4 no matter the original settings.

*currently stocking up on backup radios, Shivan shards, and anything else I can get my hands on.*
what? o_o

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress View Post
I'm a bit confused.



ITF? But according to Avatea..



..next week we're beating up on Reichsman, not Rommie. And the ITF isn't for the two following weeks, either.
That was changed - on Tuesday, they listed the ITF as the next WST, but now it's going to be Reichsman

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Posted

I guess they realized that most of us (imo) would farm the ITF more than anything else ;p

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
I would question their knowledge of the game then. Elec and Spines are AoE masters, plus Stalkers have access to more AoE in Patron/Epic Pools.



Regen is a reaction secondary, so if you have a slow reaction, yeah, you're going to die. Though some cases makes it irrelevant...like AV fights...Regen has barely any resistances so they can be pretty easily two-shotted, it doesn't matter if it's a Stalker, a Scrapper would be done in just the same.



No, it doesn't determine anything. We've done this dance many times with the LRSF, STF and even the ITF, that line of thought has been proven wrong many many times.
It's not determing but the players themselves are "highly pressuring others" into other AT's, if you prefer.

Outside of starting your own TF, you'll have difficult luck getting in these things as non-support AT's or tanks In my experience.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
That was changed - on Tuesday, they listed the ITF as the next WST, but now it's going to be Reichsman
Not remotely surprised.

As I said. They weren't going to pick the most farmed TF and easiest to complete one right at the start.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
That was changed - on Tuesday, they listed the ITF as the next WST, but now it's going to be Reichsman
So Reichsman will be at +4, and anything associated with him on that mission as well.

Be prepared.

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
So Reichsman will be at +4, and anything associated with him on that mission as well.

Be prepared.
So they're making every WST as hard or harder then the STF?

*facepalm*

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toony View Post
So they're making every WST as hard or harder then the STF?

*facepalm*
Correct.

edit: Was every STF +4 on the AV's at the end?

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
Correct.
Does it amuse you, making believe your lies?

EDIT: In the interest of peacemaking...are you telling me that they spawned at level 58 for you? I don't believe that. Are you telling me that they spawned at level 54? They do that: that's how the TF works. If you are in error I can understand your confusion...but you're not helping things.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry View Post
I like to call people Liars
See above edit please.

The two times I ran the STF the end baddies were +4 I am thinking that normally they...aren't?

Is this true?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
Just a heads up

Rommie and his pet farts will be +4 no matter the original settings.

*currently stocking up on backup radios, Shivan shards, and anything else I can get my hands on.*
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
So Reichsman will be at +4, and anything associated with him on that mission as well.

Be prepared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I take it back, I thought you were deliberately trolling.
Protip: I don't call people liars, unless they're lying. Whoever told you everything was going to be +4 sucks. That person is your liar, not you.

There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry View Post
Does it amuse you, making believe your lies?

EDIT: In the interest of peacemaking...are you telling me that they spawned at level 58 for you? I don't believe that. Are you telling me that they spawned at level 54? They do that: that's how the TF works. If you are in error I can understand your confusion...but you're not helping things.
They spawned at lvl 54 I was told by people on team at the time on the second run that normally they don't, I was told that they were @54 because it was the weekly.

So, to help clear up this communication breakdown, I'll ask: Are -ALL- of the Weekly Tasks going to have +54 at the end? I'm a bit confused.

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

Ok we are good then, I apologize and I also thank you for your info.

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
They spawned at lvl 54 I was told by people on team at the time on the second run that normally they don't, I was told that they were @54 because it was the weekly.

So, to help clear up this communication breakdown, I'll ask: Are -ALL- of the Weekly Tasks going to have +54 at the end? I'm a bit confused.
I've run three LRSFs, the FP were still level 53 and the Vindicators 52.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
Ok we are good then, I apologize and I also thank you for your info.
They were yanking your chain man, I'm sorry too.

The LRSF and STF are two of the most challenging TFs in the game, partly because of their overpowered and over-leveled overabundance of AVs. Mind you, the Reichsmann is also no pushover and has several unique HP gimmicks including "totally invincible, run you pathetic noobs."

Since Sister Psyche's TF caps at 25, presumably the AV at the end of that (Clamor) will similarly be level 25 or higher...but more like 27 or 28, just because. She won't be 54.

There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toony View Post
It's not determing but the players themselves are "highly pressuring others" into other AT's, if you prefer.

Outside of starting your own TF, you'll have difficult luck getting in these things as non-support AT's or tanks In my experience.
I still run into this occasionally, and it is a problem inherent in more "challenging" content. Namely, that people don't want to think, they'd rather lean on their Granite/Empathy/Rad Emission/whatever crutches. There are enough people who don't think that way that Scrappers and even *gasp* Stalkers can find a team if they're in a position to be in contact with people who don't mind using their brain for two minutes when faced with the "how is my Fire tank going to survive Recluse?" problem, but for people who rely on PuGs it can be problematic.

I'm not sure how to fix it honestly, aside from a serverwide system message every time a far-from-optimal team successfully completes a difficult piece of content.

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Posted

My 2 INF on this is teaming has been getting harder. Finding people who want to team or finding enough to do a specific TF can be hard sometimes especially later at night. It took an hour to get together a LRTF on Tueday night and we had one helpful guy who was only on the team long enough to get the TF started.

This is a concern is also for a brand new 50 6 months from now when the old gaurd have all gotten their 50's the new shiny and I am looking to Incarate out my latest 50.

I like to team and nearly always fly my LFT status and have a great time teaming. I solo to fill in the gaps between teams. Some characters are simply not much fun with out the riot a full team creates.

While I like teaming I am leary of content that requires it.

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