Just did mine.
That was not fun.
thankfully I had the bright idea to stock up on shivains through the mid part of the last mission. otherwise we wouldn't have gotten though ghost widow.
such a pain.
I want to go to bed now.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
Well, next week it looks like it's the ITF, which you can all run at +1 too 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I must've lucked out. My first STF, I'm the tank, I'm Fire/Fire. Goes like a dream. Then again, we did have three controllers and a defender, providing us with Kinetics, Empathy, Radiation Emission and Force Fields buffs. The patron pull went kinda badly, and we just clumped right up, let three area heals do their thing, and beat them down one at a time. Similarly, Fort, bubbles and Mrs. Peebles' Wedding Band temp let even a Fire tanker go toe-to-toe with Recluse while the team handled the towers. All in all, it was a lot of fun, if a little hectic in places.
I guess it all depends on the team you find yourself in.
All the same, I agree that there really ought to be a solo path to the level-shift abilities. I was lucky enough to have two free hours in a high-traffic period today, but it's not something I'll necessarily get every week. Then again, you could probably get around this simply by setting one of the Ouroboros TFs as the Strike Target every so often - they all have no minimum team size, so if you can handle the encounters and are prepared to put the time in, you can get a Favor of the Well without ever joining a team.
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It doesn't? Arcanaville stated a number of concerns it would address in the part of her post that you quoted. I would like a solo path, yet there may be other approaches that would at least work for me personally - I hate joining teams, but have no problem punching the same target other people are punching as long as it isn't kill stealing. And while it's hardly my favorite thing, I often join short duration teams that I can drop on a moment's notice if desired like a Rikti invasion team. What I don't like is joining teams to do missions, and what almost makes me physically ill is the idea of joining a pick up group to do a full task force. I have only done three task forces in my career across all characters, and none of them were with pick up groups. Two of them, an ITF and STF played with some of the Scrapper forum regulars on the test server, were great fun. So perhaps all I personally need to do is get on the RIGHT team for my teperament. But that's never been a pick up group.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Yes, it is a semantic difference, because a group activity that you do not need to actually join a team for addresses none of the concerns people have with a lack of a solo path.
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Interestingly, I was an avid participant in the old school Hami raids. Not sure why I hate most teams, but had no problem joining a hundred and fifty people doing raid content. Perhaps it was the anonymity of being in such a large crowd, of being only a tiny, unnecessary cog in a huge machine.
Anyway, internal contradictions aside (people are complicated), if I'm making any point here, it's... well, that people are complicated. Not everyone likes the same things even in the same game.
But I'm happy enough to take a wait and see attitude with the incarnate stuff. It's great that the devs got out at least ONE way to get to the very rare before I20 was even released. It's not a way I like, but it's a way a whole lot of people will like, so good. And since the devs say they're looking into giving us more options (good), I'll wait and see what we get. I've been happy with much to most of what they've delivered in the past few years. I'll be surprised if, when all is said and done, I'm unhappy with what they do with the incarnate levels and content.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Goody I like the ITF, hopefully I won't be running to the hospital or nursing home.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, next week it looks like it's the ITF, which you can all run at +1 too
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*falls over dead*
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
I've been one a couple STF's and LRSF's in the day. Many of which ended in failure and a waste of my time. I don't generally do them because A. I don't like leading a TF that requires specific strategies and knowing of the in's and outs of it and B. Most of my characters are not support and it's VERY rare I see a STF or LRSF forming that'll take a 7th scrapper or 5th tanker or what have you. They want support and even then they want very specific support. Seems even worse lately since I'm seeing some people requesting everyone be IO'd out or that everyone have an alpha slotted, etc etc.
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Not if they don't fix the bugs. Notice a lot of DCing and crashing when you enter the WTF with your rare slotted? Not getting the bonus (in this case credit towards the badge) when your rare is slotted?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, next week it looks like it's the ITF, which you can all run at +1 too
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From what I've heard you will need to unslot your rare before doing the WTF due to a bug. Not all TF, just the WTF.
The other thing is, TF and SFs ignore your difficulty settings. They are what they are. You may be at +1, if the fix the bug, but the mobs won't be. That is if you are at +1. Did you not see the "Sometimes" in the description? there is no telling till we try it when the level shift will be in effect.
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No it doesn't. Solo means alone. Solo means there is no one else around. Solo does not mean not on a team. Solo does not mean you need to wait until there are 20 other people doing something before you can join in. Solo = alone = 1. No matter how you cut it, if other people must help you then you are not doing it "SOLO".
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Originally Posted by Werner
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That explains a lot of what I was seeing.|
Originally Posted by Hube02
Not if they don't fix the bugs. Notice a lot of DCing and crashing when you enter the WTF with your rare slotted? Not getting the bonus (in this case credit towards the badge) when your rare is slotted?
From what I've heard you will need to unslot your rare before doing the WTF due to a bug. Not all TF, just the WTF. The other thing is, TF and SFs ignore your difficulty settings. They are what they are. You may be at +1, if the fix the bug, but the mobs won't be. That is if you are at +1. Did you not see the "Sometimes" in the description? there is no telling till we try it when the level shift will be in effect. |
Difficulty set at +0 yet AV's spawned at +4 in every mission...
Many times people would DC, lose connection...there were even times when my system would lock up and it would take about ten seconds to unfreeze...
I guess I should consider myself lucky that our team managed through all of that!
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Ummmmm, yes. I've heard of this word before. I'm pretty sure Arcanaville has too. And I 100% agree with you. Now... what in the world does that definition have to do with what we were debating in our particular sub thread?|
Originally Posted by Hube02
No it doesn't. Solo means alone. Solo means there is no one else around. Solo does not mean not on a team. Solo does not mean you need to wait until there are 20 other people doing something before you can join in. Solo = alone = 1. No matter how you cut it, if other people must help you then you are not doing it "SOLO".
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Let me try summarizing a bit:
Arcana: "[here are SOME concerns that people have with lack of a solo path that can be addressed by certain kinds of group activity that don't require a team]"I'm not claiming that ALL concerns are met. I'm not saying that ANY of YOUR particular concerns are met. I'm just saying that SOME concerns in general can be met. I'm disagreeing with the word "none" in Eva's argument. Since some of MY concerns with lack of a solo option can be met, "none" is trivially untrue. We're not all the same. My concerns, even though I strongly desire the solo option, may not be your concerns. I'm not a big fan of black and white, all or nothing arguments. Let's not separate everyone into a mere two groups, and argue all or nothing. People can be complicated. What people like and dislike can be complicated.
Eva: "group activity that you do not need to actually join a team for addresses none of the concerns people have with a lack of a solo path"
Me: "[certain kinds of group activities address some of MY concerns with the lack of a solo path, and Arcana gave other examples, so it is false that group activities can't address ANY concerns people have with lack of a solo path]"
That said, I'd really, really like a solo option. I'm also not in a panic, because I'll be surprised if we don't get one eventually, and I'm the patient type.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
It is not true that your difficulty settings do not affect TFs. There are some limits though, you cannot go below even con and AVs do not downscale to EBs. There are some encounters that remain unaffected, but most things in most TFs do indeed obey the difficulty slider. The newest ones, the CoP, Apex, and Tin Mage are the exception. But I have run many a TF at +4, fighting level 54s all the way. Level 54 Mitos are fun.
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Originally Posted by Hube02
The other thing is, TF and SFs ignore your difficulty settings. They are what they are. You may be at +1, if the fix the bug, but the mobs won't be. That is if you are at +1. Did you not see the "Sometimes" in the description? there is no telling till we try it when the level shift will be in effect.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Sorry, I probably misunderstood or took it out of context. I have not read this entire thread. I thinks it's time to take a break from looking at the forums. I'm out...
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Originally Posted by Werner
Now... what in the world does that definition have to do with what we were debating in our particular sub thread?
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Thank you. That perfectly sums up how I feel about those two particular Task Forces.
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Originally Posted by Toony
I've been one a couple STF's and LRSF's in the day. Many of which ended in failure and a waste of my time. I don't generally do them because A. I don't like leading a TF that requires specific strategies and knowing of the in's and outs of it and B. Most of my characters are not support and it's VERY rare I see a STF or LRSF forming that'll take a 7th scrapper or 5th tanker or what have you. They want support and even then they want very specific support. Seems even worse lately since I'm seeing some people requesting everyone be IO'd out or that everyone have an alpha slotted, etc etc.
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I'm glad to see somebody telling it like it is. I'm a 69+ month vet on day two of a search on a lower population server to get someone to take a Stalker for a LRSF. Despite having shivans, nukes, and even vengeance (which you figure would help if it wasn't a Mo run) the closest I've gotten to even making an attempt is multiple "Sorry we are full." The ignored yellow flagged team search comments and broadcast requests are starting to become demeaning. Even if/when I get on, it's fingers crossed hoping everyone will stay on the team and that it isn't a bust.|
Originally Posted by Toony
I've been one a couple STF's and LRSF's in the day. Many of which ended in failure and a waste of my time. I don't generally do them because A. I don't like leading a TF that requires specific strategies and knowing of the in's and outs of it and B. Most of my characters are not support and it's VERY rare I see a STF or LRSF forming that'll take a 7th scrapper or 5th tanker or what have you. They want support and even then they want very specific support. Seems even worse lately since I'm seeing some people requesting everyone be IO'd out or that everyone have an alpha slotted, etc etc.
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I'll be so glad when I can finally put this artificial forced play requirement behind me.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
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It *can* indeed be potentially all TFs--and even all instanced missions period. I certainly wouldn't run anything "important" with a Rare (or probably Vary-Rare) slotted right now. See this post: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...6&postcount=34
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Originally Posted by Hube02
Not if they don't fix the bugs. Notice a lot of DCing and crashing when you enter the WTF with your rare slotted? Not getting the bonus (in this case credit towards the badge) when your rare is slotted?
From what I've heard you will need to unslot your rare before doing the WTF due to a bug. Not all TF, just the WTF. |
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
That will at least get easier when STF/LRSF isn't the WTF. Although, I have to say, I don't get this whole "I X AT, and I can't get on a TF. I play on a low pop server just as much as I play on high pop ones, and I've never seen anyone say "don't bring that *#@%, I want to succeed!" Yeah, those two TF's are hard....but out side of "needing" support (and that support can come along in a variety of ways, see the STF I did with a Traps MM, Poison MM, and 1 Rad. When everyone plays intelligently and there's teamwork, STF is pretty easy. You don't even have to have these complicated stategies, just have solid playing.
I do see SOMETIMES people saying that they need a specific AT, and I've even been turned down because I wasn't a debuffer, even though I played said traps MM (on an LGTF and NOT LR/STF so go figure). but you know what? That's okay, I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. Put it this way, if you want to bring that stalker on any TF, and you see @Ajax454 or @1 Minute to Midnight forming a TF, shoot me a tell and I'll gladly bring anyone along. I've done some pretty wonky team set ups. They can be the most fun.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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In my experience, finding 8 people of intelligence in game or IRL to be rarity.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
That will at least get easier when STF/LRSF isn't the WTF. Although, I have to say, I don't get this whole "I X AT, and I can't get on a TF. I play on a low pop server just as much as I play on high pop ones, and I've never seen anyone say "don't bring that *#@%, I want to succeed!" Yeah, those two TF's are hard....but out side of "needing" support (and that support can come along in a variety of ways, see the STF I did with a Traps MM, Poison MM, and 1 Rad. When everyone plays intelligently and there's teamwork, STF is pretty easy. You don't even have to have these complicated stategies, just have solid playing.
I do see SOMETIMES people saying that they need a specific AT, and I've even been turned down because I wasn't a debuffer, even though I played said traps MM (on an LGTF and NOT LR/STF so go figure). but you know what? That's okay, I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. Put it this way, if you want to bring that stalker on any TF, and you see @Ajax454 or @1 Minute to Midnight forming a TF, shoot me a tell and I'll gladly bring anyone along. I've done some pretty wonky team set ups. They can be the most fun. |
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Fair enough, but that's not the STF's or the LRSF's fault. They're not particularly intellectually challenging. Not easy mind you, and I fail it plenty, but the problem isn't one of intellect. Although to be fair, most of the times I've failed it is because someone's not paying attnetion to the chat box. A couple of times it's because there were build issues, either on an individual level or team make up level. But I've also finished it with 3 tanks, 2 scrappers, 1 defender and a couple of blasters, which is no way is a reliable set up.
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Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
In my experience, finding 8 people of intelligence in game or IRL to be rarity.
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"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
For anyone having trouble with the WST, I'll be running the ITF across all the servers next week, and will be focusing on getting people who have trouble teaming to join.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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This is an interesting statement. Did a LRSF last night at +0 and despite a total lack of organization and people who had never done the SF before we won easily. We didn't pull anything we just ran into the middle of all the heros and everyone seemed to be hitting random targets. How that worked I have no idea if these are so tough.|
Originally Posted by Toony
I've been one a couple STF's and LRSF's in the day. Many of which ended in failure and a waste of my time. I don't generally do them because A. I don't like leading a TF that requires specific strategies and knowing of the in's and outs of it and B. Most of my characters are not support and it's VERY rare I see a STF or LRSF forming that'll take a 7th scrapper or 5th tanker or what have you. They want support and even then they want very specific support. Seems even worse lately since I'm seeing some people requesting everyone be IO'd out or that everyone have an alpha slotted, etc etc.
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I wasn't LFG I just got a Tell (Fortunata) asking if I wanted to join. Not being an expert at TF/SFs I couldn't even find the team half the time, so they hardly invited me because I was slotted out or knowledgable LOL.
We did however use Vengence to start the final fight. Oddly this is exactly the kind of fighting I dislike but everyone else seems to prefer lol. Perhaps they were all Slotted out and Incarnated out. I have about as good slotting as you i can get without purples.
Soloing at +0 level +4 characters seems to make shard drop rate decent (as opposed to non-existed below that rate).
Seems to me the simple solution is to add a recipie for X shards = Notice of the Well and let you build anything from base shards. That lets you skip the need for TFs although they will still be a big advantage.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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I am looking forward to teaming with you on Infinity if everything works out well.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
For anyone having trouble with the WST, I'll be running the ITF across all the servers next week, and will be focusing on getting people who have trouble teaming to join.
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Thanks in advance.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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I concede your point. Perhaps it should have said:|
Originally Posted by Werner
I'm not claiming that ALL concerns are met. I'm not saying that ANY of YOUR particular concerns are met. I'm just saying that SOME concerns in general can be met. I'm disagreeing with the word "none" in Eva's argument. Since some of MY concerns with lack of a solo option can be met, "none" is trivially untrue. We're not all the same. My concerns, even though I strongly desire the solo option, may not be your concerns. I'm not a big fan of black and white, all or nothing arguments. Let's not separate everyone into a mere two groups, and argue all or nothing. People can be complicated. What people like and dislike can be complicated.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Yes, it is a semantic difference, because a group activity that you do not need to actually join a team for fails to address many of the concerns people have with a lack of a solo path.
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Originally Posted by Werner
Interestingly, I was an avid participant in the old school Hami raids. Not sure why I hate most teams, but had no problem joining a hundred and fifty people doing raid content. Perhaps it was the anonymity of being in such a large crowd, of being only a tiny, unnecessary cog in a huge machine.
Anyway, internal contradictions aside (people are complicated), if I'm making any point here, it's... well, that people are complicated. Not everyone likes the same things even in the same game. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fire_Away
I'm glad to see somebody telling it like it is. I'm a 69+ month vet on day two of a search on a lower population server to get someone to take a Stalker for a LRSF. Despite having shivans, nukes, and even vengeance (which you figure would help if it wasn't a Mo run) the closest I've gotten to even making an attempt is multiple "Sorry we are full." The ignored yellow flagged team search comments and broadcast requests are starting to become demeaning. Even if/when I get on, it's fingers crossed hoping everyone will stay on the team and that it isn't a bust.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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The vengeance strategy is one of the oldest for the LRSF.|
Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence
This is an interesting statement. Did a LRSF last night at +0 and despite a total lack of organization and people who had never done the SF before we won easily. We didn't pull anything we just ran into the middle of all the heros and everyone seemed to be hitting random targets. How that worked I have no idea if these are so tough.
I wasn't LFG I just got a Tell (Fortunata) asking if I wanted to join. Not being an expert at TF/SFs I couldn't even find the team half the time, so they hardly invited me because I was slotted out or knowledgable LOL. We did however use Vengence to start the final fight. Oddly this is exactly the kind of fighting I dislike but everyone else seems to prefer lol. Perhaps they were all Slotted out and Incarnated out. I have about as good slotting as you i can get without purples. Soloing at +0 level +4 characters seems to make shard drop rate decent (as opposed to non-existed below that rate). Seems to me the simple solution is to add a recipie for X shards = Notice of the Well and let you build anything from base shards. That lets you skip the need for TFs although they will still be a big advantage. |
And it is entirely possible to get on a PUG that just meshes well. My first Apex resulted in a Master of when we weren't even trying, but that doesn't happen often.
And even if the LRSF is "easy" (it isn't), that doesn't change players perceptions that it is hard and needs a very specialized team. I can tell the team leader all day that 5 stalkers will work but he won't believe it.
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It may not address all of your concerns, but it may address others. That's why its not a semantic difference: it illustrates how far to one side of this issue you are on. And insisting its a semantic difference also illustrates your lack of awareness of the existence of other positions, not just opposed to you, but even parallel to yours but simply not as extreme.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Yes, it is a semantic difference, because a group activity that you do not need to actually join a team for addresses none of the concerns people have with a lack of a solo path.
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Well, I did my first STF. The people in it were nice enough and understanding, but man, it was not fun. Much more stressful than the normal game.
My wife said it took 1 hour and 8 minutes, but, boy, it felt like a lot longer. I hope that I20 brings some other methods that I enjoy more. Though, my recollection is that the ITF wasn't too bad (crosses fingers).