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To Hell with that. There is no legitimate reason for solo/small-team players to have their progression deliberately slowed that much when their progression will already be crippled by the Incarnate Shard drop rate.
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Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
You know how the Strike Pack creates a "target TF" for a week, where you get (the option at(?)) a Notice of the Well for running it? I've already seen people suggest they do the same with an Ouroboros arc, but what I'd do is make that arc last a whole month. That'd give teamers a shot at up to 5 Notices per month, while still giving soloers and what-not a shot at one.
Soloers and those others who hate the team-based rewards for whatever reason will receive their rewards at a maximum 1/5 the pace of those who team, while still being able to steadily work towards a goal. |
Quote:
Please re-read my post and reconsider your reply.
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Originally Posted by Toony
Untill I20? Until atleast I21. If you think I20's trials and raid content on the BAF will somehow be soloable, well, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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It wears off fast |
Originally Posted by Toony
And the devs don't need my money or to stay competitive with that much newer and far more appealing to new players MMO.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toony
Untill I20? Until atleast I21. If you think I20's trials and raid content on the BAF will somehow be soloable, well, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
If the numbers I've been seeing are remotely accurate, you must be talking about some MMO being developed on another planet. Keeping in mind PC and console play essentially two different segregated games (on different server farms) the PC version of the newer and far more appealing to new players MMO appears to currently have significantly less players than we do.|
Originally Posted by Toony
And the devs don't need my money or to stay competitive with that much newer and far more appealing to new players MMO.
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This is not an easy business to succeed in, because there are never any easy decisions. The ones that seem most obvious are the ones that cause the most casualties.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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Your numbers are wildly accurate |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If the numbers I've been seeing are remotely accurate, you must be talking about some MMO being developed on another planet. Keeping in mind PC and console play essentially two different segregated games (on different server farms) the PC version of the newer and far more appealing to new players MMO appears to currently have significantly less players than we do.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Sorry, but that's just an excuse used by people who don't like to change their minds|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
This is not an easy business to succeed in, because there are never any easy decisions. The ones that seem most obvious are the ones that cause the most casualties.
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Disagreed
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
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Which are no longer attended because players got tired of them, on Virtue|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's quite possible you'll be able to take part in a Trial without needing to join a team - just like the Praetorian zone events.
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that stick needs a way bigger carrot
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
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Sorry, but just because another game isn't appealing doesn't mean your own game can't suffer from poor development decisions|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Your numbers are wildly accurate
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Players will not be leaving. We all agree on that point. But I don't see how this content has the same kind of replay potential as the rest of the game. Unused content is still wasted development time
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
Quote:
no u!|
Originally Posted by BigFish
Sorry, but that's just an excuse used by people who doesn't like to change their minds
Disagreed |
But seriously, which part of it is an excuse? unless you think keeping 100,000 people happy is fairly easy. As it's been said around here more than once,"people will complain about anything."
Also consider myself an introvert, agree that teaming is fine for endgame.
Hope to see some more story arcs tagged with the Incarnate label that can be soloed...in that I can log in and do them for a while, come back to them and finish them later.
I don't expect (nor should I) to solo Apex TF, for example. Mender Ramiel is another story. The invention system and Market have kept me subbed longer than I would have expected them to...so is the Incarnate system. Good job Positron on getting them right.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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I'm not using it as an excuse for anything. I'm not talking about the devs. I'm talking about everyone who thinks they can do better. Statistically speaking, only a tiny fraction of them can be right, and every single one of them thinks its them. Virtually all of them are wrong.|
Originally Posted by BigFish
Sorry, but that's just an excuse used by people who doesn't like to change their minds
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What's more, every time a new game is launched, it allows me to judge who was right and who was wrong in retrospect on a wide variety of ideas. It also provides a source of entertainment when I compare what some people say is important to do, and what turns out to be disastrous in practice. CO alone would have been worth a half-dozen Cracked articles if I was allowed to write them.
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Quote:
sorry about the typo, I'll correct it and note that I can't spell. Again|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
no u!
But seriously, which part of it is an excuse? unless you think keeping 100,000 people happy is fairly easy. As it's been said around here more than once,"people will complain about anything." |
The excuse is that the whole "Obvious choice" thing is a personal opinion. If different people see different things as being "Obvious", then they're all wrong? Everything is a disaster?
Keeping 100k players happy is not easy. But spending 3 years developing content that's probably going to end up being lightly used is still a bad development decision. Try thinking about that for a while
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
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Again, I was commenting specifically on this game. Basing my judgement of the Incarnate system, as it has been revealed so far, on the fact that even the latest of trials added to the game go unattended.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm not using it as an excuse for anything. I'm not talking about the devs. I'm talking about everyone who thinks they can do better. Statistically speaking, only a tiny fraction of them can be right, and every single one of them thinks its them. Virtually all of them are wrong.
What's more, every time a new game is launched, it allows me to judge who was right and who was wrong in retrospect on a wide variety of ideas. It also provides a source of entertainment when I compare what some people say is important to do, and what turns out to be disastrous in practice. CO alone would have been worth a half-dozen Cracked articles if I was allowed to write them. |
"Calling" TFs is cludgey and won't lead to masses of players following the call after a certain amount of time has passed. Unless they revamp all the TFs the same way they did Positron, then it seems fairly well doomed unless they "Call" the ITF and LGTF every other week
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
Quote:
*lights corncob pipe*|
Originally Posted by BigFish
sorry about the typo, I'll correct it and note that I can't spell. Again
The excuse is that the whole "Obvious choice" thing is a personal opinion. If different people see different things as being "Obvious", then they're all wrong? Everything is a disaster? Keeping 100k players happy is not easy. But spending 3 years developing content that's probably going to end up being lightly used is still a bad development decision. Try thinking about that for a while |
Interesting my good sir, but they can still go back and fix the content if needed and as we've seen, they have gone back by "revamping" things.
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So you're taking into account PS3 game sales as well, console sales (I.E. consoles sold because of that game)? How many people are on each server matters not, only the total number really matters in advertising and to the shareholders.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If the numbers I've been seeing are remotely accurate, you must be talking about some MMO being developed on another planet. Keeping in mind PC and console play essentially two different segregated games (on different server farms) the PC version of the newer and far more appealing to new players MMO appears to currently have significantly less players than we do.
This is not an easy business to succeed in, because there are never any easy decisions. The ones that seem most obvious are the ones that cause the most casualties. |
I'm afraid Batman is far more appealing to me than generic Captain America/Superman love baby Mary Sueman.
Also could you link me to the sub numbers for both these games?
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Well, for an MMO, the numer of people on a server does matter - not everyone likes to solo |
Originally Posted by Toony
So you're taking into account PS3 game sales as well, console sales (I.E. consoles sold because of that game)? How many people are on each server matters not, only the total number really matters in advertising and to the shareholders.
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Although, if you do dislike human contact, then that other thing has some strangely quiet forums, and an an in-game chat system that will keep anyone from bothering you - or anyone else
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| I'm afraid Batman is far more appealing to me than generic Captain America/Superman love baby Mary Sueman. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
If this i19.5 goes live tomorrow, I would advise to pay attention to not only the forums but also what people in game will be talking about.
If at all possible I would suggest pointing the vocal soloists to this thread in particular to make sure their voices are heard and at the same time, I would also stress heavily as to not go on or encourage people to get on a smear campaign as it will be very difficult to keep up with any thread that decides to "go south" that includes avoiding the "you are a soloist therefore you are wrong and you need to get over it"
THAT will just incite a riot and I would love to avoid that. I'm also aware that there are people seeking "attention" that simply can't grasp the fact that in their attempts to seek attention they can EASILY start a flame war.
Heads up- I was just getting to like said people and I don't want to dislike them all over again...
I would like to see these soloists come to the forums, behaving themselves, and voicing their concerns, if there are any.
Flaming them is just going to get the flamer dogpiled and it will get ugly. -again: Do NOT want.
I want an easy to follow read, not an easy to burn ugly <I would think the devs would be on the same page with that>
I hope we can work together in directing people to the forums and also work together in polite and calm conversation. Let us join forces, avoid derailing and unnecessary trolling.
Example:
Player 65543: I like this, it promises to be fun!
<moves on>
Player 32245: I don't like this, I wish it would change! 
<moves on>
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Please, tell me how well their revamping PvP has gone over with the fan base. After they revamped the AE system it must be super crowded in that squarish building. Oh, it's not?|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
*lights corncob pipe*
Interesting my good sir, but they can still go back and fix the content if needed and as we've seen, they have gone back by "revamping" things. |
I think the development team is shooting about 50% when it comes to revamps. Not that good
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
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That other game is not good. You'll fail in finding entertainment that way|
Originally Posted by Toony
So you're taking into account PS3 game sales as well, console sales (I.E. consoles sold because of that game)? How many people are on each server matters not, only the total number really matters in advertising and to the shareholders.
I'm afraid Batman is far more appealing to me than generic Captain America/Superman love baby Mary Sueman. Also could you link me to the sub numbers for both these games? |
and this is coming from someone who feels pretty much the same way you do
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
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You mean that much newer and far more appealing to new players MMO that gates the game's best armor behind groups and raids? Just like you're saying the devs are doing here?
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Originally Posted by Toony
And the devs don't need my money or to stay competitive with that much newer and far more appealing to new players MMO.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I play both this game and that other game you're talking about. Taking aside which one has more sub numbers (which is irrelevant if you like the game), you are aware that the endgame is designed around grouping right?|
Originally Posted by Toony
So you're taking into account PS3 game sales as well, console sales (I.E. consoles sold because of that game)? How many people are on each server matters not, only the total number really matters in advertising and to the shareholders.
I'm afraid Batman is far more appealing to me than generic Captain America/Superman love baby Mary Sueman. Also could you link me to the sub numbers for both these games? |
The 'solo' endgame missions are nothing more than regurgitated instances from the leveling game that lead to inferior rewards than what is offered to teams. Listen, I bear that game no ill will (I'm subbed to it), but it doesn't offer anything to a soloist at the endgame. Which if I'm not mistaken is what we're discussing here. Give me a second I'll check the thread title.
/em Elevator music
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Avatea
Soloability and End Game
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Take a look at that game's homepage. They've got a front-page splash about their endgame "raids and alerts" (equivalent to our Task Forces and Raids). They're making the same mistake as everyone else in the MMO business.
Punching Superman in the face at level 15 was really nice, but having no where to go at the end is the same mistake City is making.
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PvP is the odd duck here, it was something that should have been included at launch like the original E3(?) video said there was going to be, not around a year later and not executed all that great. I'm not sure if AE is considered "bad" anyways besides by farmers or much less "revamped," and yes, I remember the rage thread.|
Originally Posted by BigFish
Please, tell me how well their revamping PvP has gone over with the fan base. After they revamped the AE system it must be super crowded in that squarish building. Oh, it's not?
I think the development team is shooting about 50% when it comes to revamps. Not that good |
Faultline
Positron TF
Hollows
RCS to RWZ
Maria Jenkins
PvP
If I'm to include AE in this, then they're still doing good as far as revamping/updating things go. I'm not ignoring the **** storm PvP and AE changes caused.
I am sure someone posted it in the mountains of posts but Second Measure's comments:
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Makes me feel a lot better. "End game for all"; "inclusive, accessible, and easy to participate in" pretty much says all I need it to say. Yeah!
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The Future Is Now: The features we have brought you in the game over the last year are just the first steps on a voyage to bigger, better, shinier, much more exciting things in 2011 and beyond. Going Rogue set up the world of Praetoria. Issue 19 introduced the Incarnate system and some of our most challenging content to date. Issue 20 will unleash the Incarnate Trials that bring you even more raw power courtesy of the next levels of Incarnate abilities. Issue 21 will continue to develop these storylines and features in new and thrilling ways. All the great things we are producing take you steps, leaps, and superleaps closer to the resolution of an epic storyline, and we want your characters to help lead that journey. End Game for All: We have always wanted to provide a game that was open to everyone. We want you to feel powerful when you visit our world, and the Incarnate Trials will be inclusive, accessible, and easy to participate in. Not to say that it isnt some of the most challenging and exciting content we have ever provided, but we want to make it possible for you to participate in easily, without the need to belong to an elitist raiding guild and without surrendering your weekends for a small chance at rolling on a random reward. Now that many of you have begun your ascension to Incarnate, well be releasing the Rare and Very Rare tiers of the Alpha Slot in just a few short weeks to help you get a leg up on the launch of Issue 20. |
No, Blue's right. They should (and almost certainly will) implement an option available to soloers and those who can't run or find large teams due to whatever reason.
Here's my suggestion:
You know how the Strike Pack creates a "target TF" for a week, where you get (the option at(?)) a Notice of the Well for running it? I've already seen people suggest they do the same with an Ouroboros arc, but what I'd do is make that arc last a whole month. That'd give teamers a shot at up to 5 Notices per month, while still giving soloers and what-not a shot at one.
Soloers and those others who hate the team-based rewards for whatever reason will receive their rewards at a maximum 1/5 the pace of those who team, while still being able to steadily work towards a goal.
(And I'm not going to bother quoting the rest, even though it's pretty much dead-on, because it's just two posts above this one--look up!)
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093