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This is a massive assumption to make already. Technically The Alpha slot is purely solable, and there is some TFs you can do once you unlock it. To me it makes it all encompassing. You have the ways for soloists to gain new strength and please the team-players/ TFers that love doing that.|
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
Incarnate Trials
My thought on this is that the solo friendly City of heroes will require teaming to reach the new level cap. That doesnt seem a good thing to me. Not just easier to reach the (pseudo) level by teams but to actually demand it in forms a trials which as a long time player, I'm sure you know implies a taskforce type activity. |
With the little info we have on this, I would not think anything of it yet, until more info is released.
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And then I21 will be called "No U" |
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
I20 might need to be called learn2team.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Well, we know for sure that the BAF Trial is for 12-24 players |
Originally Posted by Mylia
This is a massive assumption to make already.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
It's not a massive assumption. It's a small assumption. No existing trial in game can be started by one person.|
Originally Posted by Mylia
This is a massive assumption to make already. Technically The Alpha slot is purely solable, and there is some TFs you can do once you unlock it. To me it makes it all encompassing. You have the ways for soloists to gain new strength and please the team-players/ TFers that love doing that.
With the little info we have on this, I would not think anything of it yet, until more info is released. |
The Alpha slot mission is solable, so is getting shards, though if we need 200+ for rares it will be a grindfest for those who choose to do it without a team, and I'll be happy if the rest of the incarnate stuff is as soloable as the alpha is.
I agree we don't have enough information, hence why I asked for a plain clarification instead of guessing games.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Where is this information been released? I would like actual dev confirmation on this, before I write this in stone.
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, we know for sure that the BAF Trail is for 12-24 players
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Quote:
It was in the PowerPoint from back at Comic Con.
|
Originally Posted by Mylia
Where is this information been released? I would like actual dev confirmation on this, before I write this in stone.
|
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Quote:
At one of the meet and greets last year - we even got screenshots |
Originally Posted by Mylia
Where is this information been released? I would like actual dev confirmation on this, before I write this in stone.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
I'm not complaining that I have to play my character to get to 60. | So what if you have to run an arc and craft some very easy to obtain enhancements to increase your power sufficiently to run the new "End Game" content? What if they raised the level cap to 60 - would you complain that you actually had to play to get your character to 60? |
I'm complaining that I have no choice other than to team to get to 60.
This is not something that City has ever done before - locked level progression behind teaming.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
Quote:
They still haven't.
|
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
I'm not complaining that I have to play my character to get to 60.
I'm complaining that I have no choice other than to team to get to 60. This is not something that City has ever done before - locked level progression behind teaming. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Quote:
It remains to be seen. I hope I am wrong.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
They still haven't.
|
And this is the time to complain about it as a possible direction before it beomes fact, and to ask for clarifaction.
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| With the upcoming Incarnate Trials, you’re going to be able to take your characters to power levels undreamt |
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| Well, we know for sure that the BAF Trail is for 12-24 players |
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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It doesn't remain to be seen. Its possible to solo your way to filling Alpha. I've done it myself on a scrapper. QED.|
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
It remains to be seen. I hope I am wrong.
|
Quote:
| edit: anyway, it will take a few days to see if Second Chance is able to/wants to clarify, and dont think there is much else to be said until then. |
This shouldn't need to be stated, but it often has to be it seems.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Here’s a sad little anecdote. No facts, just a story and an opinion.
I’ve done EverQuest before CoH. I did a few other MMOs as well, but basically, EQ was my longest. I never liked raiding. I did it as a means to an end = to get gear to solo or group with friends easier. I like easy. So shoot me. Thing is, more and more, the other MMOs focused a lot (not everything, but a lot) on raiding.
When I complained on the boards on the heavy use of resources to raid, all I got (ignoring the posts that directly insulted me) was “This is a raiding MMO. It’s always been the focus. Gear / Challenge / Key / etc… locked content. Deal.” So I dealt. I left some MMOs. I stayed with EQ (that really wasn’t that different), really because my IRL friends played it. It wasn’t that different than the rest.
For EQ, and other MMOs, it was other people’s turn.
Then I heard of CoH. Very easy. Very casual friendly. Negligible end game. From the START. Hundreds of solo arcs. 1 or 2 handfuls of end game TF. Awesome.
Finally it was my turn.
An MMO designed for people like me. An Easy Button, and I have no shame saying I enjoy it that way. RL friends can play with me, np. But, if they aren’t around, I can still enjoy solo content, and NEW content was essentially solo focused. You can team, it was more fun to team, but you didn’t have to.
Then came complaints of wanting “challenge” and “end game” content. I tried to be gracious, and did quite a few posts, if people bother searching, to give others their due, but, really, it was somewhat disingenuous. Now, there’s all this focus on tougher, challenge, end game, and, if I go “But, CoH was always casual, easy, and solo / small group focused.”, “always” no longer counts. Now “it’s about time” that there’s end game.
I guess I don’t get a turn after all, sigh.
I will admit I’m bitter about the years of other MMOs where “It’s always been this way” was a repeated way to shut people like me up. “Go quit. Go play a single player RPG.” came fast and furious at me. I’m not mad, but I am sad that I feel, well, that my little oasis of easy casual MMO… got invaded. Sorry for the harsh words, but that’s how I feel.
Also, people often will reply = well, just don’t do the new content. I probably won’t, actually, but if you think about it, the focus on end game means less focus on solo / small group. The following is an EXAMPLE. For the love of God, please don’t correct the numbers, it’s an illustrative point. I’m no programmer, but my wife is in business so I have a tiny touch of knowledge.
Made up numbers follows.
CoH has only enough money for 4 arc makers. They each can make 1 arc per issue. (I’m making this up, obviously). Until recently, all 4 did 1 easy story arc per issue. I therefore got 4 new arcs to play every 4-6 months.
Now we focus on end-game. I do believe it’s unlikely, for most companies, that if the game is receding, or at least treading water, they’d hire a new hire to change the direction of the company (but I will give the example anyways, later). So now, 2 of the people do easy arcs, and 2 of the people do end-game. I now only get 2 arcs I want to play per issue. Sure, I haven’t LOST any of the old stuff, but the thing is, what I’m looking forward to… is lesser. Less goodies for me per issue, by 2 out of 4 to be precise in that made up example.
This causes more people like me to leave, and more people that like end game to arrive and subscribe. The CoH population shifts. This causes more need for more end game. Ergo, we’ll soon be at 1 easy and 3 end game arcs per issue. I’m not going to pretend it’ll ever get to 0 for the easy / casuals. Even EverQuest threw the odd bone at casual people.
But this now changes the face of the game. I was laughed… LAUGHED out of the EQ forums when I suggested Time Vs Reward instead of Risk Vs Reward (that latter which I hate). CoH has Time Vs Reward, and I do believe one of the Devs made it a catchphrase (I want to say Positron but I’m not sure).
And now, RvR is starting it’s way in, and TvR is starting on it’s way out. Never completely, but the flavour has changed. And though, bluntly, TvR / easy / whatever you want to call it was here first, it’s starting to become about challenge. So, challenge seekers have most if not all of the other MMOs, but us casuals couldn’t be allowed to keep CoH? I can’t change “your” MMOs but you can change “mine”. Sigh. And based how I was treated as a last class citizen for “daring” to like easy on the EQ boards, well, it sucks that again, I see “challenge” rearing its ugly head.
Sure, the old content won’t go poof. No I won’t quit. But why here? Why CoH? Why did end game emphasis have to come here? Sure there was end game before, but like PvP, Bases, etc… it was very evidently tacked on as a “We have those things, check. Now lets forget about them.”
Precedent / vision / flavour / almost everything in CoH had the easy button. Which is good cuz I’m not a good player. You should have seen me stress out when I had to Tank in the Reichman arc (I do team and TF once in a while, so I can keep an eye on the horizon and not obsolete myself out of the game). My chest actually pounded when someone actually suggest a “Master of…” (yeah, cuz I want to be responsible for ruining everyone’s evening for dying and ruining their shot at a badge…sure I do… argh… sweats starting).
So, hopefully, this doesn’t come across as an attack. If it does, I apologize. But I am saddened that CoH couldn’t stay as the little fish, swimming slowly, in the little pond, and that, instead, there’s more (not all, but more) resources diverted to end game, instead of keeping it at 95% (ish) to the easy/casual, as it always has been… till now.
Wish the “that was then, this is now” crew of these boards had been with me on the EQ boards. Would’ve been nice to have support. Anyhow, off to bed. Night all. Thanks for listening.
Addendum = Argh. I almost forgot I said I’d give an example about a new hire. So yeah, there’s 4 people each making a casual arc. Say there’s money to hire a new person, and that’s the person that’s doing all the new end game (say). Well, again, that introduces a flux in the game. The game has always been about easy / solo. Look at the number of flashbacks vs the number of TF. This now creates an expectation and a need for even more content, rather than “we don’t do that here”.
So, you have this new money for a new hire. Well, instead of 4 casual / 1 end game (assuming the end game is the new guy), make it 5 casual arcs per issue, players get even more content in the flavour of the game and this stays a casual game. As it’s always been. Sure there’s Hamidon, STF, LRSF (as of CoV), but that’s no where near the amount of exposure as end game has been given now. Getting 5 people on casual arcs… lets CoH keep it’s identity as opposed to being yet another goal = "high end group" intensive MMO. I’ve been seeking an MMO when people “can” group, but not “must” group for a while. And I’ve gotten it, with Issues i.e. new content with CoH, but now, it’s less so.
Since there’s only so much resource to go around, X more hours going to end game is exactly X less hours that goes to casual. Anyways, there’s the example. (and I use terms like casual and end game rather loosely, being ESL, but I hope you can find the meaning in all the above verbiage) Pillow time for real now…
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I have two Incarnates (and another two waiting for me to care to play them enough to get the shards to fill their unlocked slots) already, that I got through soloing and light TFing. |
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Short answer: Incarnate. Optional. Don't participate then.
|
"Challenge" is the issue here; my VG still fails the occasional ITF/LRSF/BSF. Not everyone I play with can solo x8 content or AVs (like I can). "Challenges" that require not only a team, but a team of Incarnates each capable to tackling challenges above and beyond the standard +0x1 difficulty themselves are going to be content I cannot access.
Thus far, the only such content in the game is the Hamidon raid (thus only because I have no desire to ever be in the same place and working with 50 people simultaneously; as an introvert, that level of interaction would simply be far too tiring and stressful to be something I'm going to do in my spare time) which was added so long ago as to belong to a different era altogether (the Mothership raid requires less coordination and less interaction. Being a large scale war, you actually can just charge in and bash things (once the shield is down) enough to still rank as "participating".)
Nothing else in this game requires a team of highly skilled and coordinated players - nothing requiring even a fraction of such needed by the monster MMO that I quit playing because its endgame required such five years ago - to complete (though some of the content already exists at a level that it is by no small means a surety that it will be completed by any team that tackles it, as the highly casual players I team with can attest.)
The addition of such content is not something I welcome, relish, or desire. If nothing in the game ever existed beyond the "difficulty" of the Barracuda Strike Force (or the Lord Recluse Strike Force, or the Imperious Task Force, whichever you wish to view as the capstone content), I would be overjoyed.
The direction shown in i19 for end game content - something I'm not just going to ignore, because there is no reason I should have to ignore any content in this game; I haven't had to for six years, why should I have to start now? - is not one I welcome.
Tin Mage is ... okay, if you take out Director 11, who is just patently ridiculous. Apex is ... meh. The hydra pylons require specific builds or strategies, something mostly unprecedented and greatly unwelcome, and Battle Maiden is just a gimmicky "phased" fight of the sort that drove me away from other MMOs. Neither is an ideal direction I would like to see the game travel in.
More content along the lines of the ITF/LRSF (Barracuda would be okay if Reichsman had about a third the health he does; the ambushes and the temp powers to deal with them are actually pretty interesting, but beating down Reichsman is less so) would be welcome. More content along the lines of the Apex or Tin Mage Task Forces, however, would not.
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Neither do the 2 new TFs | Nothing else in this game requires a team of highly skilled and coordinated players |
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|
The addition of such content is not something I welcome, relish, or desire. If nothing in the game ever existed beyond the "difficulty" of the Barracuda Strike Force (or the Lord Recluse Strike Force, or the Imperious Task Force, whichever you wish to view as the capstone content), I would be overjoyed. The direction shown in i19 for end game content - something I'm not just going to ignore, because there is no reason I should have to ignore any content in this game; I haven't had to for six years, why should I have to start now? - is not one I welcome. |
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| The hydra pylons require specific builds or strategies, something mostly unprecedented and greatly unwelcome |
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| and Battle Maiden is just a gimmicky "phased" fight |
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| More content along the lines of the Apex or Tin Mage Task Forces, however, would not. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Because lots and lots of players have been asking for it for a very long time |
Originally Posted by Fiery_Redeemer
But why here? Why CoH? Why did end game emphasis have to come here?
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
GG, I know you think you're being helpful, but you're clearly an extrovert. Introverts can actually empathise with extroverts because the culture forces your point of view on us, so we have no choice but to do so. But you clearly simply do not understand what introversion is. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Just think of it as a kind of therapy to help you come out of your shell
|
It's not a defect, it's not a deficiency. It's simply a difference. We are not inherently inept at dealing with people (many introverts that are are so largely due to lack of practice), we are not incapable of dealing with people (I work a help desk. I get paid to deal with people, and am surpassingly good at it, if my performance reviews of the past five years can be believed), we simply are drained by doing so.
Extroverts are recharged by going out and mingling with people; interacting with groups, friends and strangers all get an extrovert pumped and relaxed, making them able to continue on with whatever tasks they need to expend their mental energy on. Introverts are the reverse; dealing with people drains us, and we have to recharge by withdrawing. That difference doesn't cripple us - it's just a difference.
Just like some people train for marathons for fun, play sports for fun, or engage in any other tiring activity for fun, an introvert can interact with people for fun as well (I do it all the time). But just like no one can run a marathon constantly, an introvert cannot interact with others constantly.
With as much as modern American society enforces the idea that extroversion is the only norm and introverts are somehow broken, we are often forced into that interaction even when our reserves are already drained. Forcing us into that is a lot like forcing an exhausted marathon runner to run another mile - you're not helping any one, and are very likely to be doing active harm.
I know you mean well, but seriously: stop it. You're not helping.
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As a fellow long-time Casual EverQuester myself, I understand your position but I fail to see what the problem is. The Casual COH gamer has gotten "a turn" for the entirety of the game's existence and that shouldn't be changing very much at all. |
Originally Posted by Fiery_Redeemer
But, CoH was always casual, easy, and solo / small group focused., always no longer counts. Now its about time that theres end game.
I guess I dont get a turn after all, sigh. |
There are THREE events in the game that are not doable by a single group. The Hamidon, The Rikti War Zone Mothership Raid and the Cathedral of Pain. That's it. And you know what? Two of those are still "Casual-friendly" in that you can get on a team for them and be done with them in about an hour - Hamidon and the Cathedral. Even the Mothership Raid can be done in less time than most Task Forces. The COP is even limited to 3 groups of 8 players. But you know what? Even for a mostly-solo player like me, having those large events to go to casually when one happens to be taking place is really awesome and some of the most fun you can have in COH. Many of the Trials and Task Forces are actually harder to finish successfully with one group than these "Epic Raid" events are with dozens of players.
Quote:
| ...the focus on end game means less focus on solo / small group. |
Quote:
|
But this now changes the face of the game. I was laughed
LAUGHED out of the EQ forums when I suggested Time Vs Reward instead of Risk Vs Reward (that latter which I hate). CoH has Time Vs Reward, and I do believe one of the Devs made it a catchphrase (I want to say Positron but Im not sure). And now, RvR is starting its way in, and TvR is starting on its way out. Never completely, but the flavour has changed. And though, bluntly, TvR / easy / whatever you want to call it was here first, its starting to become about challenge. |
Quote:
| So, hopefully, this doesnt come across as an attack. If it does, I apologize. But I am saddened that CoH couldnt stay as the little fish, swimming slowly, in the little pond, and that, instead, theres more (not all, but more) resources diverted to end game, instead of keeping it at 95% (ish) to the easy/casual, as it always has been till now. |
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| Wish the that was then, this is now crew of these boards had been with me on the EQ boards. Wouldve been nice to have support. |
Nasty things! I didn't try to stay on those boards for very long.I spent less time in EverQuest than I have in COH so far. I probably would have stayed longer in EQ except they shut down the Guide program and that was the only thing I really had fun doing anymore there.
COH on the other hand is a much nicer place and the forums here, for the most part, are much more forgiving a place.
Quote:
So far, you don't have to do that. It's quite possible to solo the bosses in the last 2 missions, and as has been said on the forums here before, people have done it with sub-optimal builds and squishier classes. (I forget who ran "Best Defender Ever" just to prove to EvilRyu that it could be done). It's also true that, while it takes longer, shards can be earned by solo players. We don't actually *know* that the future holds for unlocking the other slots yet, so until what you're worried about goes into a beta you're in, or is out, you really have no grounds to say that so far. If you're talking about the BAF and/or TFs, you've always had to have a team to run that sort of stuff. It remains to be seen if those things HAVE to be run to unlock Incarnate items though.
|
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
I'm not complaining that I have to play my character to get to 60.
I'm complaining that I have no choice other than to team to get to 60. This is not something that City has ever done before - locked level progression behind teaming. |
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
Quote:
<shrug>|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
You completely and utterly missed the point. If the game spent the next two years adding nothing but 'high end raiding', it would spell a clear and decisive path for the future that was casual-unfriendly. It really doesn't matter what the game has done in the past; we're talking about the game's future.
Telling people that want casual stuff "You've had that for six years, now it's our turn" is completely missing the point. The point we casuals are making is "You have every other MMO in the world, leave ours alone." Casuals are not the ones being selfish here. Folks wanting this MMO to be like all the others are, because apparently they're not satisfied with the hundreds of other choices they have and want to take away the one choice we have too. I wish I could use the words that truly describe my feelings about this. It's hard to express such outrage I feel with polite and politic words. |
I'm casual. I started in the open beta and have played ever since. In that time I've been in no more than five PuG's. I'm in a very small SG, where only if everyone is on can we field an eight man team, so I solo well over 95% of the time. I have two kids in elementary school, a 50 hour a week job, and responsibilities in two households since my dad passed away. I'm apparently not one of your "we casuals" though because I've enjoyed the Incarnate content and other high level additions to the game.
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Would you be satisfied if all Incarnate content, from now until forever, was team content? Would you be satisfied with Apex and Tin Mage being the "easy" version of Incarnate content, and not examples of the apex (pun intended) of Incarnate content? |
Originally Posted by Dromio
<shrug>
I'm casual. I started in the open beta and have played ever since. In that time I've been in no more than five PuG's. I'm in a very small SG, where only if everyone is on can we field an eight man team, so I solo well over 95% of the time. I have two kids in elementary school, a 50 hour a week job, and responsibilities in two households since my dad passed away. I'm apparently not one of your "we casuals" though because I've enjoyed the Incarnate content and other high level additions to the game. |
Just because this one step wasn't a step too far for you doesn't mean they're not still headed in a direction that won't be acceptable to you in the future. They've taken steps towards making this game's "end game" very much like the end game of other MMOs (in particular, the granddaddy of them all and the 800-pound gorilla); while they're not there yet, do you want to encourage the development of this game to ultimately end up there?
Quote:
I don't think that you're really differentiating clearly between 'casual' and 'solo'.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
If the game spent the next two years adding nothing but 'high end raiding', it would spell a clear and decisive path for the future that was casual-unfriendly.
|
I agree that a TF/Trial focused end game would be solo unfriendly. However, from what we've seen of the Incarnate system so far, it seems just as casual-friendly as the rest of the game.
I'm a pretty casual player. I play in phases, sometimes logging in most days, sometimes playing once or twice a week. All my characters are in my personal SG, and I'm not in any coalitions, so I don't have any SG/VG channels to find teams on. Pretty much the only teaming I do is joining TFs from the server global channels, plus recently one weekly trio team.
The incarnate system is about the most casual-friendly end game I can imagine. To 'qualify', I have to do one short, solo-able arc, and then take part in a couple of the existing TFs (and if I don't mind picking up shards more slowly, then even the TFs are optional). It really is the Midnighter Arc for level 50s. Once I've done that, then I get the advantages of the Alpha slot for all 45+ content, and I can keep making progress collecting more shards even if I never play a single Incarnate TF.
I don't have to join a guild and commit to a raid schedule. I don't need to spend hours and hours grinding out the required gear from specific raids -- any 50+ content will do. If I'm willing to accept the trade-off of slower progress, I don't have to team once to unlock and start making use of Incarnate levels.
The Incarnate TFs themselves are a little different to others, but I wouldn't say they're particularly much harder than the current level 50 TFs. Primarily, they're new, and people are still learning how to play them. They're also short, making them great for players who have limited time to commit to a team.
Honestly, it's hard to see how the devs could have made the basic Incarnate system much more casual friendly than they already have.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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The only difference between the Apex and Tin Mage TF's and the other ones is they are shorter, and require the Alpha Slot for you to be effective. They are still easy to run. Yup, they take some tactics, but thats NOT a bad thing.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Would you be satisfied if all Incarnate content, from now until forever, was team content? Would you be satisfied with Apex and Tin Mage being the "easy" version of Incarnate content, and not examples of the apex (pun intended) of Incarnate content?
|
And since when did this game become YOUR game? It's as much mine as it is yours so my desires are every bit as important as yours.
Quote:
For an introvert, there is no such thing as "casual teaming". Teaming is always going to be an extreme game play for me, and there is no design way around that. But I allow for the teaming experience for the extroverts out there, and even indulge in it now and then myself; so long as Director 11 and Battle Maiden remain anomalies, I can live with the team content as is (as I tried to be very clear with explaining before). But not with exclusively team content. Such development would be tantamount to trolling the introverts and other soloist this game has spent six years cultivating and catering to. |
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I don't think that you're really differentiating clearly between 'casual' and 'solo'.
|
If the future content for my signature character shall henceforth be nothing but team content, then the devs will be literally giving me nothing. The design of this game thus far almost demands solo Incarnate content; having a largely-solo game suddenly become a required-teaming game at the level cap is simply an unacceptable direction; it's a nonsensical progression. As characters grow in power, they should require less help, not more.
Heretofore, I start with a character that runs solo at +0x1, and solo grow up to a power level where I can run at +2, or x8, or some other combination of greater power all alone. To suddenly hit Incarnate content and require a team of eight (or, worse, a team of eight equally capable) characters to tackle the new threats is simply not a logical progression of power.
As it exists now, the Task Forces are not regular content; they are "special events", things requiring a team of supers to tackle. If Incarnate content is nothing but Task Forces, they cease to be special events and become the main story - a team of heroes teaming up every week to tackle some enemy. That's fine for learning or oppressed groups like the Teen Titans or the X-Men, but it's really not suitable for the heavy hitters, like Superman, Green Lantern or Batman. When the Justice League bands together as one to tackle something, it's a big deal; if they start teaming up every other Saturday to tackle something, suddenly it's far more routine.
To keep the team content special and feeling epic, it by necessity must remain a minority of the content - at all levels. Otherwise, our "god-like" Incarnates have suddenly been downgraded and now need help to do anything, when before they could (quite literally) take on armies single-handedly.
Quote:
So, the solution is to react with outrage to something that hasn't even happened yet? |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Would you be satisfied if all Incarnate content, from now until forever, was team content? Would you be satisfied with Apex and Tin Mage being the "easy" version of Incarnate content, and not examples of the apex (pun intended) of Incarnate content?
Just because this one step wasn't a step too far for you doesn't mean they're not still headed in a direction that won't be acceptable to you in the future. They've taken steps towards making this game's "end game" very much like the end game of other MMOs (in particular, the granddaddy of them all and the 800-pound gorilla); while they're not there yet, do you want to encourage the development of this game to ultimately end up there? |
Makes perfect sense. It really hasn't gone to the point of "You MUST do this content within these rigid guidelines in order to progress!" at all. Nor do I see it going that way.
I've been solo the last several play sessions and I almost have enough for my uncommon Alpha enhancement on one character, and have the common slotted on 2 more. That is playing solo, no more than 2 hours at a stretch. I don't have much time to play these days, and I don't feel at all like I'm being forced to grind to get the shinies. I'm being rewarded for simply playing my level 50 characters, which I would be doing anyway.
As far as "End game content" goes, this is about as casual as they could possibly make it while still differentiating it from the same old stuff we've been doing for 6 years.
Unless you think we should be able to simply click a button to get 100% of the Incarnate stuff without doing anything at all, and then go grind out the same content we've had for a while now. That would be extremely casual, but it would also get the reaction of "THIS is what they've been hyping for the past year and a half? It's exactly the same as everything else!!"
Your definition of "casual player" seems to match up pretty well with my definition of "players who want everything handed to them". Or at least with "Players who think socializing in a video game is something to be avoided"
Also, just about every new addition to the game to be released recently has had a Task Force associated with it. ITF, Kahn/Barracuda, and going farther back, Moonfire was a new TF, STF and LRSF were new at one point. LGTF was new.
Your stance seems to be that they should add a bunch of solo content and screw the people that want something for a team to do. There IS new solo content being released on a regular basis for the game, it would be perfect for you if that's ALL they released, but surprisingly, there are players in the game who LIKE to socialize, it's kind of one of the main draws to an MMO for a lot of people.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
I don't think that you're really differentiating clearly between 'casual' and 'solo'.
I agree that a TF/Trial focused end game would be solo unfriendly. However, from what we've seen of the Incarnate system so far, it seems just as casual-friendly as the rest of the game. I'm a pretty casual player. I play in phases, sometimes logging in most days, sometimes playing once or twice a week. All my characters are in my personal SG, and I'm not in any coalitions, so I don't have any SG/VG channels to find teams on. Pretty much the only teaming I do is joining TFs from the server global channels, plus recently one weekly trio team. The incarnate system is about the most casual-friendly end game I can imagine. To 'qualify', I have to do one short, solo-able arc, and then take part in a couple of the existing TFs (and if I don't mind picking up shards more slowly, then even the TFs are optional). It really is the Midnighter Arc for level 50s. Once I've done that, then I get the advantages of the Alpha slot for all 45+ content, and I can keep making progress collecting more shards even if I never play a single Incarnate TF. I don't have to join a guild and commit to a raid schedule. I don't need to spend hours and hours grinding out the required gear from specific raids -- any 50+ content will do. If I'm willing to accept the trade-off of slower progress, I don't have to team once to unlock and start making use of Incarnate levels. The Incarnate TFs themselves are a little different to others, but I wouldn't say they're particularly much harder than the current level 50 TFs. Primarily, they're new, and people are still learning how to play them. They're also short, making them great for players who have limited time to commit to a team. Honestly, it's hard to see how the devs could have made the basic Incarnate system much more casual friendly than they already have. |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Incarnate Trials
My thought on this is that the solo friendly City of heroes will require teaming to reach the new level cap. That doesnt seem a good thing to me. Not just easier to reach the (pseudo) level by teams but to actually demand it in forms a trials which as a long time player, I'm sure you know implies a taskforce type activity.
Doesn't seem to fit the 'End game for all' statement. I really hope that inclusive, accessible, and easy to participate in means a solo path.
I20 might need to be called learn2team.
Unparalleled Content The last few issues have had some amazing stuff in them. Well deserved grats on the teams making them.
Service with a Smile as you will use the launcher have mandated. It will bring your community toghether with our other communities. You will like it.
We Love You, Man I love this game too. Really enjoy playing it. I hope it stays true to what it has been for all this years. It has been/is a great game.
I am committed to giving you insight into where we are going, what we are doing, and how AWESOME it’s going to be
- Please let us know in clear English if teaming will or won't be required for incarnate path.
Boosters
I'm all for new boosters, the picture of the birdman looks fantastic.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):