January 2011 Producer's Letter to the Community
By
Adept,
Posted on: 2011-01-10 11:29 in Developers' Corner
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OK. I19! Two Task Forces which are NOT gear locked! |
Originally Posted by Toony
Call me when new TF's come out that aren't gear locked.
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You can participate in these Task Forces even if you don't have the Incarnate enhancement slotted. You'll effectively be -8 to the mobs in the TF, likely not contribute much, & it seems most people wouldn't want to invite you, but you aren't locked out by the software. I suppose it's done this way so that those looking for a serious challenge in this game can try forming a no Alpha slot team and see if they can complete either of the TF's.
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| I just see a pattern. I hope it doesn't keep going like this but I'm not going to keep myself from telling the devs my concerns because the forumites don't like opposition. |
I used to think the people complaining about no end-game content were a bunch of whiners who didn't get it that the game was about the process of developing a character from level 1 to 50. Now thanks to them, the devs, and the success of others MMO's with end-game content, I find myself having hauled out moth-balled characters & had a ball playing the heck out of them!
I might not appreciate your opinion now, but it might lead to something that I'll enjoy immensely in the future, so as I stated before, please do keep expressing your concerns. (In a reasonable, well-written manner. It seems to me the people who matter are more willing to consider your opinion when you do it that way.)
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I'm guessing it's less your "opinion" and more the fact that, like many on MMO forums you insist on passing your "opinion" off as fact. That tends to upset people. Sure, characters with more and better enhancements play and perform better than those without them, that's true in any game, and will always be true. There's also the thing about learning to play better to compensate for your lack of "gear" or whatever. There's also the fact that you can hand someone a "purpled out" "perfectly designed" full Alpha slotted Incarnate, and they can still die over and over, and may not, for example, tank worth a crap. That tends to end up being a personal problem, most of the time. No 'gear' in the world is going to make someone a better player. Gosh forbid the game have challenge in it.
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Originally Posted by Toony
Again, I really don't care if someone dislikes my opinion. It's my concern that the game is heading toward gear gating.
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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At the risk of driving a threadjack, I started a (semi)-new thread over in the Suggestions forum: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=249599|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Now, I've not used the NC launcher. But it's also worth noting the current launcher is kind of a piece of crap. it eats CPU and bandwidth resources (even on a near top of the line quad core) whenever it's patching anything, can't be left open to patch when patches go up, takes far more resources than it needs to take....yeah, it sucks. So hopefully this will be an improvement. I've always wondered why CoH, an NCSoft game, never used the NCSoft system, especially after they got BOUGHT by NCSoft.
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My experience with the NCSoft launcher has been primarily through the NCSoft games Aion, Tabula Rasa, eXteel, Dungeon Runners, and Lineage II. The launcher has earned a reputation as bloatware, largely due to the launchers reliance on .NET. Now, patching the games I listed was not as processor intensive as CoH's patching.
That being said, if I understand how the CoH patcher works, it essentially is both pre-compiling new data, and re-compiling existing data in the existing .pigg files. The conceptual idea, if I'm right, is that the game saves performance with an Ahead-of-time compiler.
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| AOT compilation is mostly beneficial in cases where the interpreter (which is small) is too slow or JIT is too complex or introduces undesirable latencies |
What I do know, is that although the patcher has been updated, it still leverages the Composite UI Application Block per the licensing agreements.
However, some of the more resource intensive components seem to have been replaced in the version I'm looking at, which is listed as 1.5.23.3
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Except that's a patent and complete lie. Obviously by someone NOT playing CoH currently. They were ALL green for YEARS and OCCASIONALLY Freedom and Virtue would go yellow. Maybe even Red on a double XP weekend..sometimes. NOW if you play, on a WENDESDAY NIGHT AT 4AM EST Virtue and Freedom are Red and all of the other servers are Yellow (perhaps minus one or two) this has largely been true since GR's launch.|
Originally Posted by daveyj3
im just postin what some guy on fb said, cuz i like his comment:
"Not all of the servers are dead, this is true. However, it's also true that this game is in fact dying. I've been playing City of Heroes for years, and while they've added a lot of new and interesting things, over time i've noticed t...hat the servers have slowly been drifting into the green zone on a regular basis. |
Pay attention.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Doh, completely forgot to address this question.| So hopefully this will be an improvement. I've always wondered why CoH, an NCSoft game, never used the NCSoft system, especially after they got BOUGHT by NCSoft. |
.NET applications generally don't work on *nix type systems such as Apple OSX (darwin BSD) or Linux (linux kernel). .NET compatibility can be achieved through Attachmate Mono, but well, Mono lags behind .NET versions and may or may not be binary compatible.
CoH continu(ed) to use their own loader since it was compatible with the Transgaming Cedega / Cider Tech.
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That's my guess. Jay made a drive by at the cape the other day inferring stuff about Posidon and Atlantis. That combined with "Pressure" and some "Catgirl" comments he made, seem to make these fair game.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Animal costume parts and an underwater zone. You heard it here first!
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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That's really sad, actually. I think they're probably the most well-written and engaging story arcs CoH has ever had to date, and actually have some impact on the world (especially the Medi-porter issue) is very much like what would happen in "real life" if heroes had access to something like that, and regular people didn't. The villain arc is the first time I ever played content red side that actually made me feel truely "villainous" as opposed to just an angry person, or-kind-of-a-dark-hero-thing, because the things you do in that arc prompt the creation of a TF specifically to stop you.|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
(I found the two new story arcs utterly forgettable, and now that I've done them once I probably won't do them again.)
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But no, you're right, they're totally forgettable.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
Cool, glad to have someone new for folks to gripe too. With that being said, i like the direction your going for the game, im stoked about the incarnate system.
But honestly, can we just get some changes to pvp. I mean im not ask for something crazy but at least, i dont know, add some new arena maps or something.
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As interesting as that was Je_saist, and as technical a person as I am, I'm not a programmer (thank god) or a developer of any kind, so most of that doesn't help me. To be fair: re .Net, LotROs patcher is, AFAIK entirely written in .NET and doesn't have any real problems at all (keep in mind this is based on someone running Windows 7 x64 with 8GB of RAM--it might be worse if someone was running XP). I wasn't so much voicing support for the NC launcher as I was complaining about some of the things the current launcher does to my system. Though i do sort of see WHY it does that now, thanks to your post.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
However, some of the more resource intensive components seem to have been replaced in the version I'm looking at, which is listed as 1.5.23.3
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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This is good to know. Perhaps the launcher is optional and/or won't work in those situations, and the "old" one will remain for that. The impression I get is that it is/was an "add on" for most NC games (like the Station Launcher) that you didn't have to use, but had the option to if you desired it's features. I know you can do some nifty stuff with the Windows Games explorer thingy with it, so someone told me...
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Doh, completely forgot to address this question.
.NET applications generally don't work on *nix type systems such as Apple OSX (darwin BSD) or Linux (linux kernel). .NET compatibility can be achieved through Attachmate Mono, but well, Mono lags behind .NET versions and may or may not be binary compatible. CoH continu(ed) to use their own loader since it was compatible with the Transgaming Cedega / Cider Tech. |
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
Well, I for one would love more incarnate stuff. I have really enjoyed taking my 50's and running more content on them, making them stronger. For me, if it hit 50, it usually means I actually had fun playing the character. I've never pl'ed anything to 50 just to have it. So.. more content and power for characters I already enjoy playing? win win!
NCsoft launcher? I never had an issue with it. though it has been a long time since I used it. I decided to check out that dungeon runner game that was free and the ncsoft launcher was the only way to run it (i think, its been a while).
That said, its unneccessary software, which means I don't want it either. I try my hardest to keep my pc's running as optimally as possible. This seems to keep me out of trouble. despite every issue bringing new rounds of 'coh is broken since last patch' subjects in the tech section. none of my pc's have ever had an issue with it, and I'd like to keep it that way! Thankyou.
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
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In a sense they are gear, but from a game design and gameplay perspective they are actually a form of power progression system. In that sense, they have more in common with epic power pools and even the level scalers than "gear."|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Ah..a WoW-ite. Only someone from WoW uses the term "gear locked". Incarnates aren't "gear". Incarnates are that world-changing storyline/RP content you wanted. Nothing in CoH, except maybe the IO system even really qualifies in the traditional sense as 'gear'. You're approaching it totally from the wrong end... The arc takes an hour at best, and then you can run them if you want. So really all they are is locked by an arc. You know, how cimerora is locked by running the midnighter arc. yeah, that cimerora, the one you said was epic and world changing. or like how LGTF is locked by being able to go to vanguard (or used to be). Yes, the one you said was epic and world-changing. Seeing a pattern here? I know I am.
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The incarnate powers are what you do when you want power progression, but not level segmentation. I.e. You want people to level beyond 50, but you do not want to add a level 51. The Incarnate powers are giving us the power we would have had at level 51, 52, 53 and so on without having to introduce new combat levels. And in the process doing it in a more interesting way than adding more combat levels.
But incarnate content isn't gear locked per se. It's progress locked in a way different than standard level, gear, or content gating. But while the technology is different, the concept is no different fundamentally than anything CoH has ever had in it's design. Progressional gating is a fundamental element of this game, even if it has ways of bypassing that in some cases. It's such an obvious extrapolation from basic MMO design and how this game has always worked that I haven't had to change what I've been saying about how the incarnate system will work since the devs first hinted at it, before anyone knew anything about it. From then till now I've had to say absolutely nothing different about how the end game progressional system would work. It's that predictable, that inevitable, and that similar to what we've always seen.
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Ooh, I hadn't heard that - do you have a quote of exactly what he said?|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Jay made a drive by at the cape the other day inferring stuff about Posidon and Atlantis.
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Although Atlantis isn't a total surprise
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I agree with you from the standpoint that I too play, and love, this game because it is "easy." That said, if it becomes too easy, it becomes boring. I have alpha slotted one of my characters already, and even though it's only a single tier 2 boost, I have noticed a significant difference in how the character plays. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I play this game because it is "easy", because there is no content I cannot tackle (and even some of the existing "easy" challenges I still fail, because I don't run with an elite group). Changes away from this will affect my enjoyment of the game, and potentially my subscription to that. Please keep in mind that I am not the only player like this - just one of the few that vocally speaks about it on the forums.
I can appreciate the desire to deliver some of the "challenge" so oft clamoured for by others, but I'm not going to sacrifice my enjoyment of the only MMO I've ever loved for their sake, and I hope you decide you won't either. |
I can only imagine what the difference will be like with ten rare or ultra-rare boosts slotted. If it got to the point where playing pre-Incarnate lvl 50 content felt like hunting Hellions in Atlas Park with a lvl 50 blaster, then I would probably not want to play an Incarnate charater.
And I think (hope) that's what the Devs have in mind when they say "the most challenging content ever" - content that would crush your favorite lvl 50 character three months ago, but which will be fun to play with your ultra-powered Incarnate character.
As for all this gear-gated, whatever-gated talk... I don't know what that's all about, but isn't everything outside of Atlas Park/Galaxy City and Mercy Island "gated" to a certain extent? I can't run a Synapse Task Force with a lvl 1 controller, and I'd dare not go street sweeping in Nerva with my lvl 1 Mastermind.
So what if you have to run an arc and craft some very easy to obtain enhancements to increase your power sufficiently to run the new "End Game" content? What if they raised the level cap to 60 - would you complain that you actually had to play to get your character to 60?
Thanks for the update, Second Measure. I'm looking forward to many more. Thanks for the early notice about 2xXP weekend, and for scheduling it for the weekend between the NFL Conference Championships and the Superbowl. And thanks for "spilling the beans" as it were about attending PAXEast - I just bought my ticket, so all I need to know now is if there will be a M&G, and if so, which night.
Finally, my guess for the "under pressure" clue is an underwater zone as well.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
I've been here for over 4 years now and I just want to say that this past 6 months have rekindled my love for the game. (I got a bit disinterested previous winter and spring) The new content (Praetoria, incarnate stuff and the new lvl20's arcs) is the best that's been released for this game. Every new powerset released is more fun and generally more balanced than the previous, the new enemy groups with their effects and animations are awesome and fun and every issue the QoL changes turn City of ... in a better game.
If you guys can continue in this vain, and keep to the promeses around communication you make here, I'll be here for a while yet.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Every year this game gets better then the year before. I have faith the will continue.
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I expressed my opinion. (I don't like those arcs.) And you seem to find it necessary to attack me for it. Along with everyone else who says something you disagree with, apparently. My condolences for your apparent self esteem problems. But hey, if it makes you feel better, feel free to continue. *I* know how the Ignore feature works.
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
That's really sad, actually. I think they're probably the most well-written and engaging story arcs CoH has ever had to date, and actually have some impact on the world (especially the Medi-porter issue) is very much like what would happen in "real life" if heroes had access to something like that, and regular people didn't. The villain arc is the first time I ever played content red side that actually made me feel truely "villainous" as opposed to just an angry person, or-kind-of-a-dark-hero-thing, because the things you do in that arc prompt the creation of a TF specifically to stop you.
But no, you're right, they're totally forgettable. |
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To be clear, I don't know for a fact that the cohupdater.exe program is doing an AoT-Compile.|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
As interesting as that was Je_saist, and as technical a person as I am, I'm not a programmer (thank god) or a developer of any kind, so most of that doesn't help me. To be fair: re .Net, LotROs patcher is, AFAIK entirely written in .NET and doesn't have any real problems at all (keep in mind this is based on someone running Windows 7 x64 with 8GB of RAM--it might be worse if someone was running XP). I wasn't so much voicing support for the NC launcher as I was complaining about some of the things the current launcher does to my system. Though i do sort of see WHY it does that now, thanks to your post.
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As far as .NET goes... well. It's a Microsoft API. In and of itself this is neither good nor bad. There are coders who will laugh at it and deride anything created with it. There are coders who value it as a day to day utility and for a paycheck.
The real problem(s) are in what it does. Wikipedia actually has a fairly good run-down of the practical problems associated with .NET: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework#Criticism
Another problem, and one not addressed by Wikipedia, is that the CLI and C# are covered by various software patents. These patents basically form a minefield for developers trying to implement .NET compatibility. While Microsoft offers licensing of these patents under a Reasonable and Non-Discriminatory (RAND)arrangement, what comprises RAND has never been fully defined. It's a subject that gets brought up on a regular basis, like this post on the Debian Mailing list: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-l.../msg40136.html
If .NET was the only tool-kit available for what it does, licensing issues and patents wouldn't really be a big issue. However, it isn't. Toolkits like QT and Java will pretty much do everything that .NET does.
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| This is good to know. Perhaps the launcher is optional and/or won't work in those situations, and the "old" one will remain for that. The impression I get is that it is/was an "add on" for most NC games (like the Station Launcher) that you didn't have to use, but had the option to if you desired it's features. |
CoH has been relatively unique in the NCSoft games I've played in that it has a separate launcher from the native NCSoft launcher.
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personal feelings are really only so relevant, the two arcs, as well as the tips, the incarnate arc AND the tfs were all content, whether it was specifically addressed to your play-style really is completely immaterial. |
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
But it's still only TWO mission arcs and a handful of random Tips missions. To me, Tips missions are just "new Newspaper" missions. I do them to change alignments or to collect purple merits, and ignore them otherwise. Because almost NONE of them are what I'd want my character to do. The Villain missions are "Saturday Morning bad guy EBIL," the Vigilante missions seem to assume that everyone is the Spawn or the Punisher (and therefore perfectly willing to solve problems by hunting down jaywalkers and ripping out their spines,) and the Rogue missions are just weird. I do them because the in-game rewards are fairly significant, but at this point I don't bother to pay any attention to them beyond checking what the mission goals are. As far as my characters' personal stories go, Tips missions never happened.
If you aren't going to run the new TFs, Issue 19 contained essentially nothing of great interest, other than a handful of QoL changes that they could just as easily have slipped into any other patch. |
If you find the game no longer represents your interests, then the decisions really is on you, but objectively issue 19 was a fairly full issue that had content for both soloists and heavy teamers, to claim otherwise is to be willfully dishonest. maybe i like the content maybe i dont, but realistically nobody cares.
If you have a clear and well thought out description of what you want, rather than a vague list of your dislikes, go crazy with it, but just popping i to complain, thats not really so much constructive feedback as nonconstructive complaining.
Welcome to the Forums Second Measure. Congratulations on becoming an official redname, cast into the lion's den.
Should you survive and continue with what you have proposed in a monthly letter, we will be very happy. However, should you fall in battle and be cast out of your view of the mountain, well... we've come to expect short bursts of new blood.
Comic and Hero/Villain Culture
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We Will Remember This One Moment In Time! ~ Shadow Ravenwolf
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Does this mean we won't be able to bypass the launcher when we want to? If I'm on a TF and I crash I really don't want to do a Verify Files.
| For example, we are currently working to integrate City of Heroes into the NCsoft Launcher, which will bring with it a significant improvement to the process of downloading and updating the game for all NA and EU (Mac and PC) customers. One of the immediate benefits is that all of our customers will finally benefit from the same launcher and the most up-to-date information; this is the first step in bringing our communities together. |
I really hope that the Steampunk super booster is next after the animal pack.
Other than that I'm looking forward to I19.5 and I20.
Dubble XP weekend will afford me the chance to complete a few toons I have been working on and start them on the incarnate content.
I do feel as the the regulated monthly letter is a little to formal tho. The devs popping into random threads, on in-game issues not in forum games, feels more genuinely friendly, and more communicative to me than a planed announcement.
How ever in lieu of any thing else, I'll take it as it is.
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"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
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Oh, so there's a better community in some other dimension? That's it, it is freaking ON, Other Dimension! Time to dance.
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Originally Posted by Second Measure
Thanks for your continued support, your continued participation, and for being the best gaming community in this dimension.
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Ascendant
Now, more than ever, Paragon City needs heroes. Do your part to save it.
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I realize that you aren't in a mood to hear anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions, but on the off chance anyone is paying attention to you I had to chime in.|
Originally Posted by Toony
Not really the same but keep telling yourself that.
Needing to run an arc that was actually a major part of the story at the time/=/needing to grind for hours to make an AO. Theres a difference between locking an area as part of a story and gear gating. For example in LOTRO you could not enter Moria untill you advanced that part of the story. This is not the same as being killed instantly in the watcher raid if you hadn't spent 5 months getting radiance gear. But really I'm just gonna leave the thread for now. I didn't come to argue with the usual suspects who violently oppose any concern on the game. I came to air out my opinion for the devs to see. That is done. Have fun. |
When the Incarnate stuff first came out I had exactly the same concerns you did. I play COH precisely because it isn't a raiding, must grind specific loot to run the important content, kind of game. I play sporadically and solo a lot. In short I was very afraid of being left out.
Fortunately what I've found is that it really isn't like that. It could be and for all I know it will be when the rare/very rares come out or with the other Incarnate slots. But for what's currently released it really is as simple as:
a) Run one arc that can be soloed by 90% of the toons out there (or if you have one that can't you can easily get a pug duo for).
b) Run one ITF (or if you don't like - any other of the 45+ TFs - the ITF is just the fastest).
Craft alpha component (doesn't matter which), slot it, and now you can run Apex or Tin Mage. Of course if you are like me and don't really like TF's much you'll likely just run each one once for the experience of having done it and move the heck on.
That's it, that's the list. It isn't game breaking, game changing or anything. It certainly doesn't require an IO'd toon. In fact the fully IO'd, purpled out toons may benefit less from the slot than toons with a more vanilla build.
So let go of your fear and give it a try - it really isn't that bad.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."