Worst of the Worst


1VB_FIST

 

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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Bull. You've either found the worst of tanks to compare to, or you've recently discovered the art of hyperbole.
Well, technically, if it's situations that cause "some tankers" to faceplant, Billy the AE Noob Tanker with his killer 'one armor and survival by spamming Aid Self in the middle of combat' build counts.


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I seen Tankers eat it in the same battle PBs/WSs survive. I don't recall the particulars, but I know I've seen it more than once. Then again, my squishy Fire/Rad troller has easily handled mobs that took the Tank to school.


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Originally Posted by Kelenar View Post
Well, technically, if it's situations that cause "some tankers" to faceplant, Billy the AE Noob Tanker with his killer 'one armor and survival by spamming Aid Self in the middle of combat' build counts.
Damn technicalities. Very true though, I can IO out a PB and play it well enough to survive a lot more than "some" tankers. Put that same budget/effort into a tank, though, and I guarantee that the tank will survive more. I'm not saying a PB should be able to survive as well as a tanker, of course.

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Originally Posted by MaHaBone23 View Post
I seen Tankers eat it in the same battle PBs/WSs survive. I don't recall the particulars, but I know I've seen it more than once.
I'd blame this more on the fact that the tanker taunted everything. Once he was down, the aggro became shared on the whole group.


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I played a human PB to 50. Survived most groups and only fear the Carnies and the Malta Group (Sappers and Illusionists) because I don't have a work around for their powers. The glowing energy coolnest factor outweighs the faceplant syndrome (except for the aforementioned groups and Apex TF). However playing my SOA, I do notice an overall greater durability.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I'd blame this more on the fact that the tanker taunted everything. Once he was down, the aggro became shared on the whole group.
I have no great love for PBs or WSs, but I have seen people do some impressive feats with them, including filling the roll of Tank in Dwarf form, and that includes managing aggro and absorbing the Alpha. And to that end, I have seen some do it better than Tanks. Again, I cannot recall the particulars, like enemies, or the builds of the Tanks involved, but I've seen it enough to not be shocked by it.


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Posted

PBs and WSes can have 85% RES to basically all damage in dwarf form, along with a heal or two. If you're comparing to a less than optimal defensive Tanker like Fire or Elec who also mostly just has RES, and the team's buffs are less than compelling, it's definitely possible for a kheld to survive more. In general though I'd expect the Tanker to be more durable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
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Originally Posted by Kelenar View Post
Also, the set's hardest-hitting traditional AoE, Flamethrower, does its damage over 7.1 seconds, which really lowers its value on fast-paced teams or when hoping to wipe out minions so you have less incoming damage to worry about. Add the lack of a tier 3 blast, two AoEs that have a chance for knockback, Ignite being hard to get much damage out of (especially since casting any immobilize requires you to redraw your weapon afterward,) and Full Auto having a narrow cone, and I think that's all the major complaints I've heard about the set.
Don't forget the set eats your blue bar like an Entenmann's baked good. The Endurance usage of the set, especially in light of the overall damage output, is head-scratchingly horrendous. IMHO it can and should be the least-Endurance using blast set (it isn't very tiring pulling a trigger).


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Originally Posted by Nucess View Post
Don't get me wrong, Having force fields on your team is quite nice. I can see how it would be a godsend on certain teams. However, actually playing it 1-50 (God help you if decide to solo) is the most boring thing I've ever played in the game. Most teams however loved the fact I actually kept the bubbles up.
Most boring set I ever tried even teamed was Ice/Emp troller

That has to be the most mind numbing set and I got one to Level 22 years ago and deleted that bad boy.


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Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
IMHO [assault rifle] can and should be the least-Endurance using blast set (it isn't very tiring pulling a trigger).
Hey, I'd like to see how tired you get after pulling that many bullets out of your... whatever.


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My nomination would have to be a Psychic/Mental(Electrical APP) Blaster. First level 50 character I ever deleted. On paper, it seems like it should work well. Some nice AE attacks, Aim+Build Up, some control, Endurance recovery, etc. but it just never seemed to gel for me.

This combination was painful to solo and I often felt like a leech on teams but I kept expecting things to get better but they never did so at 50, I used all the respecs I had to unload as many IO sets as possible and deleted. Haven't regretted it at all.


 

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Originally Posted by TheUnnamedOne View Post
My nomination would have to be a Psychic/Mental(Electrical APP) Blaster. First level 50 character I ever deleted. On paper, it seems like it should work well. Some nice AE attacks, Aim+Build Up, some control, Endurance recovery, etc. but it just never seemed to gel for me.

This combination was painful to solo and I often felt like a leech on teams but I kept expecting things to get better but they never did so at 50, I used all the respecs I had to unload as many IO sets as possible and deleted. Haven't regretted it at all.
Heh, i just deleted a 45 Psi/MM blaster. I had just lost enthusiasm for the combo, especially after playing my Fire/Fire/Fire blaster to 50 and beyond.

I did rebuild her name/concept/costume into a Mind/MM Dominator. Figured if I'm going to gripe about Mind, I might as well bite the bullet. She's level 15, and I'm still feeling a little lukewarm about her. Someone in-game assured me that combo hits its stride in the 20s, so I'll give it that long at least.

TK is... interesting. Reminds me of the learning curve on Hurricane.


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My least favorite so far was my grav/FF controller. I have to keep him, as hes based on an awesome character from a superhero rpg I was in, but my rad/rad defender outmatches him both in useful control on teams, damage, and help with tough targets (which is where a lot of the end game is). The controller would probably work to keep a team alive in a wider variety of situations, but I'm on relatively few high level teams these days where dying is frequent unless its so full of fail I don't really want to be on the team anyway.

Throwing a Hold on a boss prevents me from using the knockback/knockup FF would provide, while not preventing the boss from getting to me until I stack a second Hold. Wormhole is a neat power, but fairly team unfriendly unless you are in just the right environment with a handy corner, which is about 1 in 10 fights. Aside from messing up melees, it messes up things like nukes, fulcrum shifts, etc. Its the only Grav AoE control power up roughly every spawn, but as far as I know its also the only every spawn Controller power that you can't safely use in LOS because you soak the whole alpha BEFORE it actually does its thing. I don't count the AoE intangible power, since as has been pointed out, it actually reduces most teams effectiveness.

Its a pity, because Grav does have some unique powers, I just almost never have a situation where its the most effective character to bring. I'm currently working on a PvP build, even though I almost never have time to PvP. . .


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
Don't forget the set eats your blue bar like an Entenmann's baked good. The Endurance usage of the set, especially in light of the overall damage output, is head-scratchingly horrendous. IMHO it can and should be the least-Endurance using blast set (it isn't very tiring pulling a trigger).
It does have the cheapest most effective AoE though. (Ignite)

Though the less said about flamethrower the better... Since I don't use that end-eating AoE, I never really had issues with end.


 

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
PBs and WSes can have 85% RES to basically all damage in dwarf form, along with a heal or two. If you're comparing to a less than optimal defensive Tanker like Fire or Elec who also mostly just has RES, and the team's buffs are less than compelling, it's definitely possible for a kheld to survive more. In general though I'd expect the Tanker to be more durable.
I am uncertain how you get a PB to have that much Res. WS has a +res ability which effect can transfer to it's dwarf form, I do not see anything similar for PB. Care to elaborate?


 

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Worst IMO are Emps who label themselves "healers" and never use their blast. Just spam their heal aura even if the teams fine. Drives me nuts, I personally kick them from teams. Nothing against emp, but def blast secondary effects can be very helpful and shouldn't be ignored.


 

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Originally Posted by Signpost View Post
I am uncertain how you get a PB to have that much Res. WS has a +res ability which effect can transfer to it's dwarf form, I do not see anything similar for PB. Care to elaborate?
Look up their inherent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Look up their inherent.
So you must be in a team to get all that res. Granted teaming is fun and all, but not everyone teams.


 

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I think the big difference with the knockback in AR versus various Storm powers, or something like Torrent or Energy Torrent from the scrapper APPs is the reliability. If they hit, they do it, and plans can be made around this. For a power with 50% knockback chance, that seems harder. It's too likely to just ignore it, but not likely enough to rely on as a mitigation effect.

For such reasons, I might have expected Elec/Energy doms to be a major case of anti-synergy, but since all the powers with a chance of knockback are single-target, it looks far more manageable.


 

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Worst powersets by AT:

Scrapper: Either dual blades (by the numbers; it looks very cool) or spines (while a solid powerset on paper, it can destroy any costume and requires a specific concept)

Tanker: Stone. I'm sorry, it's a powerful set, but your defining power makes you hard to kill but otherwise slow and dull.

Defender: Trick Arrow. I love TA, but it's terrible. Redraw, absolutely no buffs or heals, and a very confused collection of powers with outrageous recharges (maybe this is better since the newer patches?) makes it very hard to imagine why Glue Arrow+Disruption Arrow+Acid Arrow taking ten seconds launch is better than just dropping Tar Patch or Sleet.

Controller: Mind Control or Grav. Confuse is stupid. Stacking it 50 times on a PTOD AV is even stupider. This is not a rational argument against MC, just personal taste. As for Grav, it's just sort of bleh. Attacks in my control set? Wormhole? Seriously? Controllers are supposed to turn enemies into shrubs waiting to be trimmed into topiary, not make them intangible or spread all over the map.

Blaster: Psi is pretty bleh, both visually and mechanically. Electric blast is visually not bad, but fairly weak since its secondary effect (-End) is only relevant if you truly focus on it to excess.

Mastermind: Mercs. Mercs are one of my favorite sets, but damn, they are terrible. Easily resisted lethal damage makes up most of their attacks, the medic is suicidal, the Spec Ops are utterly chaotic in their use of "control" powers with excessively long recharge, and the Commando's powers all have different ranges. As for which one I don't like, that'd be Robots. CHOMCHOMCHOM feet plus fat 'bots blocking up caves make me annoyed.

Dominators: Same as controllers, pretty much.

Corruptors: Secondary here, since comments from Blaster sort of cover the rest. Pain is a really terrible secondary solo.

Stalker: All of them ever. Especially claws, though my claws stalker was during a low point for the set, if memory serves, so I may be excessively biased.

Brute: WM/EA is STRONG and PRETTY. So strong. So pretty. I never liked the feel of Axe/WM, though the numbers are decent. Same goes for Invuln.

I really, really hate Willpower. Yes, it's one of the best sets, and extremely easy to play. That may be why I don't like it.

By the way, this list is neither subjective nor opinion. Everything in it is absolutely true facts and serious business, so don't even begin to question the strong and pretty of WM/EA.


 

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My personal "problem child" is an Illusion/Kin Controller... It's not so much that the set combination is bad (in theory, it works just fine-), it's that playing him absolutely bores me to tears.

I actually enjoy playing my "shield-bot" FF and Sonic defenders quite a lot, mostly because I DON'T find it mindlessly easy to keep everyone on a team shielded properly when they're bouncing off in seven different directions like a herd of hyperactive jack-rabbits. That controller, though? SB and Phantom Army might as well be the only powers the poor thing has. >_>


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Controller: Mind Control or Grav. Confuse is stupid. Stacking it 50 times on a PTOD AV is even stupider. This is not a rational argument against MC, just personal taste. As for Grav, it's just sort of bleh. Attacks in my control set? Wormhole? Seriously? Controllers are supposed to turn enemies into shrubs waiting to be trimmed into topiary, not make them intangible or spread all over the map.
This I don't agree with, atleast most of it. Confuse is great, use it on a sapper and watch him drain his allies, cast it on a buffer and now your team gets buffs. Now confusing PtoD AV is just really for giggles, I have yet to see any team use that as the mandatory plan. Also attacks in control sets are some what common, about half of the available sets have attacks in them.


Dirges

 

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Warshades. DB/Traps corrs.


 

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Originally Posted by Emgro View Post
I really, really hate Willpower. Yes, it's one of the best sets, and extremely easy to play. That may be why I don't like it.
Geez, what sets do you play, Goldilocks?

Also, Confuse is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. On any sort of buffing/debuffing enemy, like a Shield Gen, Sorceror, or as Dirges mentioned, a Sapper is amazingly good fun. DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKES!

I can see the comparison between Grav and Mind. Both feel a bit quirky and weird. I just got my Mind Dom to 20, and I still haven't made up my mind about her. TK sorta feels like Hurricane. In the right situation, its pretty awesome. In the wrong situation, its just messy.


Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaHaBone23 View Post
Also, Confuse is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. On any sort of buffing/debuffing enemy, like a Shield Gen, Sorceror, or as Dirges mentioned, a Sapper is amazingly good fun. DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKES!
Indeed. Even better is playing on a team that understands that without having to be told. I had this experience fighting some Sky Raiders the other day - Confuse on the Shield Gens and almost as if by magic, the PUG members stopped wailing away on them until there was nothing left.

My troller cried manly tears, I tell you.


 

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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5 View Post
a PuG that understands that without having to be told. .
Yeah, right. You tell such LIES! Such things do not exist.


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