Worst of the Worst
By
1VB_FIST,
Posted on: 2010-12-31 15:35 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Confuse has some sort of magic ability to cause your entire team to go and kill the guy with purple dots around his head the second you confuse them. Mass confuse is abit better because they can't kill everything at once....usually.
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So do toggles anchored on enemies. Hell, I sometimes find myself killing my own anchor right after laying down the debuff. Partly why I can't play my rad/rad.
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Originally Posted by Toony
Confuse has some sort of magic ability to cause your entire team to go and kill the guy with purple dots around his head the second you confuse them. Mass confuse is abit better because they can't kill everything at once....usually.
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They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
I say earth rad for the only reason you have no attacks until your pet rock. Its a great team set, but solo your living off temp powers. This was before the market and you were able to make temps. Iron blade temp was golden to me.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
A step further.
Worst AT regardless of powersets?
Controller.
*ducks*
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Damn right you better duck. A team full of controllers is insanely powerful.|
Originally Posted by DanZero
A step further.
Worst AT regardless of powersets? Controller. *ducks* |
A team full of stalkers... not so much.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I've tried just about every archetype, and try to play them to a conceptual strength, then do my best to make them as powerful as possible while staying true to that core concept.
The only one I've really been disappointed with was my human only peacebringer. Granted he didn't get all the way up, but he was just...meh. Not bad persay. You actually have to try to ruin a character to come up with something that doesn't have a strength around here...but as a human-only PB I came away loving the look, but not really doing as much for the team as I could by switching to one of my other characters. It was like playing a character that won a bronze in every category while another could win bronzes and a gold here and there.
I know they're a generalist, but that felt like less a strength when my specialists are also good in general too.
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I kid because I love. I love too too much.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Damn right you better duck. A team full of controllers is insanely powerful.
A team full of stalkers... not so much. |
Sadly, he does have a point about stalkers. In PvE, there is no reason to run a stalker over a scrapper.
If you want to stealth missions, power pool stealth + one of the travel +stealth enh's is plenty.
Of course, PvP is another concern. This reminds me of DAOC infils and nightshades, who sucked hard in PvE but who were lords of the realm in PvP. That seems like a fair trade. The only reason why stalkers are considered underpowered in CoH is because PvP is not much of a factor here. If we had a "new frontiers" type zone... the stock value of stalkers would skyrocket overnight.
I always wondered what a precisely organized team of Stalkers would run like.
A team of 8 ghosts, all hitting BU and AS at the same time, same target, vaporizing AVs and then vanishing like some kind of creepy ninja hive mind.
((shiver))
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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I ran a team of all Controllers at one point this weekend completely on accident.|
Originally Posted by DanZero
A step further.
Worst AT regardless of powersets? Controller. *ducks* |
I've never steamrolled so quickly or successfully... ever.
Edit: Oh, I see you were kidding.
...
I still love my Controllers.
Wild Streak - Lv. 50(+3) Beast Mastery/Sonic Resonance Mastermind, Amnesty - Lv. 50 Staff Fighting/Dark Armor Stalker
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Fix'd.
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Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
I always wondered what a precisely organized team of Stalkers would run like.
A team of 8 ghosts, all hitting BU and AS at the same time, same target, severely injuring and sometimes killing EBs, and only pin-pricking AVs and then vanishing like some kind of cowardly ninja wannabes. |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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While the increased critical chance for stalkers would make them a good additional damage source in an AV fight, it remains that the burst damage model stalkers are based around remains a polar opposite to what devs intend to be an extended encounter. When the assassin strike scaling by target hp was put in, the reduced effect on normal targets was not the only problem- devs did not like the idea of stalkers taking out an AV in seconds, not even 8 stalkers.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
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I do enjoy my stalker, but it often bumps up against many game design choices that are averse to the archetype. Don't get me wrong- stalkers can work very well...in fact I found new appreciation when I joined a team with a tank grabbing all my aggro, allowing me to kill without aggro worries. Again, especially on a team playing in close proximity, the damage is excellent. But their specialty? It has just so many awkward moments.
The idea is the AT can bypass much notice, kill choice targets so quickly they can't be a problem, and escape attention when it gets to be too much.
Then devs make missions that assume or even force enemies to take notice of the player, both for story and challenge purposes. They make difficult targets that are meant to be an extended encounter that should never be taken down quickly. They work with a team system that shares aggro and a persistent aggro AI. These aren't game-changers for stalkers, but they do exist. Stalkers are pretty much unique (unless you unclude domination/overpower vs. purple triangles in many cases) in having a specialty that is contrary the game design in some encounters.
But yeah, they're still good. Built/timed well, they are still deadly. I just find that many of the archetype complaints do come down to the mismatch of mission and archetype design.
Maybe I'm just having some charmed experiences when I run my Stalkers. I have a 16 KM/DA I rolled just for Praetoria content. The last EB I fought we her was maybe a three shot fight, and that's with DOs. My 36 DM/Nin stalker killed Silent Blade in his morality mission so fast it glitched the mission.
Stay Gold, Paragon. Stay Gold.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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I actually have a Grav/Sonic in the mid 40s. Sonic'd Singularity is actually quite the amazing pet. Tanks just about anything.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Overall I'd have to say that a Grav/Sonic controller is the most underpowered combo in the game though a poorly played Grav/FF controller can shut his entire team completely down.
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Cool thing about Earth/Rad is the stacking -defense. You can just hit normally with temps/vets, so I was able to solo mine pretty fast.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
I say earth rad for the only reason you have no attacks until your pet rock. Its a great team set, but solo your living off temp powers. This was before the market and you were able to make temps. Iron blade temp was golden to me.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
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Interresting, I think it was a Night Widow Build VEAT who put up some very impressive Pylon Soloing time...over 200 DPS. I fail to see how that's a VEAT doing less damage than a Scrapper.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Don't forget how Fortunatas and Banes can get 100% ranged attack chains while having even higher RES and/or DEF than PBs, while still getting mez protection. Heck their damage buffs are even higher (PB BU is 72%, widows and banes get 80%). And they have team buffs. And pets. And dedicated mez powers. And passive recharge boosts.
VEATs still have their downsides. They don't do as much damage as Scrappers or Blasters. Their mez isn't as potent as a real mezzer. Their pets aren't around all the time without permahasten levels of recharge. And their RES/DEF or at least DDR values are less than Scrappers could get. But compared to HEATs, they're gods. Synergy? Mercs don't have DEF outside of stealth. What synergy?  |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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But Silent Blade wasn't an EB. |
Originally Posted by MaHaBone23
Maybe I'm just having some charmed experiences when I run my Stalkers. I have a 16 KM/DA I rolled just for Praetoria content. The last EB I fought we her was maybe a three shot fight, and that's with DOs. My 36 DM/Nin stalker killed Silent Blade in his morality mission so fast it glitched the mission.
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Likely a Lt maybe a boss if you had your difficulty settings up'ed.My problems with Stalkers continue to be their DPS. :/
That said, to answer the OPs question...
PBs.
This is assuming PvE and solo/team.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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That's more than likely the -regen kicking in at that point. Against hard targets with lots of health and high regen, NW may do more damage... as long as no controller on the team is already flooring the regen of the AV.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Interresting, I think it was a Night Widow Build VEAT who put up some very impressive Pylon Soloing time...over 200 DPS. I fail to see how that's a VEAT doing less damage than a Scrapper.
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Against 95% of the mobs in the game, the scrappers are still doing more damage.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I've been following this thread with great interest as I want to make some kind of ultra-terrible character just to see how horrible it can be. This is the current winner, unless someone can persuade me otherwise:
Trick Arrow/Assault Rifle Defender.
You got a terrible blast set with lots of knockback with a weak-as-far-as-debuff-sets-go-set that's generally localized in an area on an Archetype with terrible damage modifiers. Based on this thread and my own insight I think this might be the worst. AR on blaster with devices is pretty bad but the Blaster Dmg modifier and Defiance keep it from being too terrible.
There's also the aesthetics of this whole thing, pulling out the gun/bow constantly will look incredibly stupid, though I believe I remember reading a post by someone (Luminara's trick arrow guide maybe) that redraw is actually an urban legend and that its accounted for by the brief delays during animations.
At any rate, that's the current plan unless someones got a more compelling choice.
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I used to think that about my AR/Dev, then I respecced a month ago in a cone maxed range AoE 8-man team build using the nicely cheap Dam/Rng HOs and IO slotting for recharge and...well, maybe it's not as good as Fire/whatever for AoE, but Full Auto is up on every spawn and things get cut down damn fast. I can't say I'm disappointed or thinking that I wish I'd played a different blaster type anymore.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
For Blasters and teaming Pistols and Assault Rifle pared with Devices blows hard.
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@JohnP - Victory
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Absolutely. My Grav/Rad is much more fun than my Fire/Kin.|
Originally Posted by KayJMM
Grav is soooooooooo nice...
I love my Grav/Rad... And no Powerset has powers so unique as Propel and Wormhole! |
(Admittely, the 50 Fire/Kin is on my mothballed second account but it's not something I've ever felt a need to reroll on the primary account.)
(Not that I use Propel, it's just not worth it.)
But with IOs I love my
- ST Immob with %Hold
- ST Hold with %ExtraHold
- AoE Immob with %Hold and 3x%Dam
- AoE Disorient (always always always follow up with AoE Immob) with ability to drop stray mobs on debuff patches
- AoE Hold
- AoE Hold Toggle with %ExtraHold
- Ranged Epic Blast with %Hold
Of course, I'm sure most controllers can do all of that.
@JohnP - Victory
I play a lot of support. A lot of support. I don't care about how much damage a set does, I just like playing with interesting toys and pretty colors.
Forcefields drive me batty. I have a level 30 Ice/Storm controller that I have managed to solo for at least five of those levels. I'm patient. I'll level anything. My Rad/FF I built in i3 is level 6. Level SIX. I can play it for about ten minutes before the bubbles and boredom drive me up a wall. Great concept, great character, great costume... ten minutes.
I think that is just a personality mismatch.
For powers that could actually use some help - Electric blast. I have it on a defender, and while I like the animations, I would like my blasts to be able to help out a team's damage, if only a little.
Altoholism isn't a problem, its a calling.
60+ characters, 5 years, 3 50's.