City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

The Impossible Mr. Trapdoor and Issue 19's New Theme

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-21 17:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

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Originally Posted by Furio View Post
It's almost a shame it's so much easier to level in the game that it was at launch. I think everyone would benefit if they were to run a blaster (or other squishy) to 50 under the old xp/debt rates before experiencing the melee ATs
My first 50 - energy/energy blaster - was created in late 2005 just before ED was instituted. She was still using TOs, I believe, when I6 launched. I always have felt it was a Shame I never really got to experience pre-ED conditions.

 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I also think its amusing to see you reference "dynamic CO content."
To be fair, I'm using "dynamic" as a code word for "people running around like idiots spamming ranged attacks with no semblance to "realistic" or even "comic book" style fights". That's more Tin Man than Apex, mind you.

I guess I could better qualify Apex as "staged content;" people mindlessly jumping through a series of memorized hoops/schticks/phases that are really kind of silly and random.

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Firstly, because of the notion that if the devss want to add more sophisticated content to the game
I wouldn't call the new TFs sophisticated. The schticks are rather simple. A simple game of checkers is more sophisticated than fist fighting ten gorillas at once, but guess which challenges me more.

I fully understand the new TFs. There's not much to understand. I've beaten them and even have the 'Master of' for Tin Mage. Doesn't mean I don't think they're too hard, or that I'm not insulted by unresistible nanite damage and Boobcats cheat Vengeance or that I think Battle Maiden has any valid reason for challenging my Incarnate.

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Castle once posted in the open forums, in reply to a post I made regarding the reluctance the devs have for making certain kinds of advanced content, that in fact the devs are always looking for ways to do that, but practical limits of the game and the resources available to them were the limiting factors, not their will to do it (the specific subject: permanent dynamic environments).
I'll tell you something. Battlefield Bad Company is a more challenging FPS to me than some of the earlier entries in the series, which I find the combat incredibly simple and boring. One of the reasons is that in previous titles, you could stand behind a piece of plywood and be safe from rocket propelled grenades, tank rounds, you name it. I used to get massive scores easily by exploiting this and camping with a squad in an easily defended spot.

Then they added fully destructible environments. Suddenly that bunker wall wasn't so safe. Any cover should be blown to bits. I no longer had a magic all-protecting shield that lasted forever and my score went way down compared to the glory days. And I love it. Because the devs of that game didn't make magic rockets that could pass though walls or bullets that curved or teleporters to yank people out of cover. They instead improved and expanded on the game experience by increasing the verisimilitude, without "cheating" like ours do with Boobcat's Vengeance and nanite damage.

If our devs had created new wrinkles to combat that the AVs used challenge us, I'd be more likely to like them if they also could be used against those AVs by us. If sword bombs could be confused to drop on BM, the device or what ever causing them hijacked, or if she took damage too by being at ground zero when they went off forcing her to run around like an idiot, that would be one thing.

Get some guys on expanding those "practical limits" be it AI, tech or what have you. Making AVs with "cheat powers" is easy, they should be as bored of it by now and the players who claim to be bored with the game's lack of challenge.


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Secondly, because of all those posts where you said CO was going to clean CoX's clock for a variety of reasons
Never underestimate the ability of a community demanding challenge to torpedo a game's success. People complained CO was too easy before launch so the devs gutted a bunch of powers between the pre-launch open beta and launch day. And people left in droves when they found their heroes were now gimped.

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Jack (Emmert) shared your game design philosophy and perspective on comic book gameplay.
Jack had already handed things over to Roper, who of course everyone in CO just loved. /sarcasm


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That's a quote I wish I kept, but I don't think I did, mores the pity.
That's a quote that likely doesn't exist. Aside from a brief exchange on these forums, I never got to talk to Emmert. But he did agree I was right the Family and their tommy guns had no business being as high level as they were, and I wholeheartedly agreed when he said Tankers should be powerful and that they weren't and that super strength characters should be knocking over buildings.

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Development cycles are looooong.
This I'll agree with you on. They're too long IMO and the devs can't adapt as fast as I think they need to.



.

 

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
people mindlessly jumping through a series of memorized hoops...
Heh, after having done the Trapdoor mission several times, all those elevator shafts or whatever the heck they are did start to feel somewhat, shall we say, symbolic.

 

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Originally Posted by Flarstux View Post
Heh, after having done the Trapdoor mission several times, all those elevator shafts or whatever the heck they are did start to feel somewhat, shall we say, symbolic.
So you think we got shafted too?

Feel free to vent in this thread.
Because we can only go down from here.





.

 

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Originally Posted by Flarstux View Post
My first 50 - energy/energy blaster - was created in late 2005 just before ED was instituted. She was still using TOs, I believe, when I6 launched. I always have felt it was a Shame I never really got to experience pre-ED conditions.
I was already slotting in the manner optimum to post ED when ED hit, so I never really understood what the problem was...and I've played since launch

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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Additionally, I don't think I should have to fund content I don't want in the game and I've been given no way show my support of content I do want to support beyond complaining loudly and causing a scene about what I don't like, which is what I'm doing and what I plan to continue doing unless I'm stopped not of my own free will. If you don't like it you can put me on ignore, urge the devs to get it together or leave yourself. Those three options suit me fine.
Really??! You have the gall to sit there and actually say that every single feature put into this game should be approved by you?

Thank you. I needed a good laugh right now and that was a doozy. That's why I can't put you on ignore because 90% of the time you're too funny. Keep up the comedy gold!

@Doctor Gemini

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
I guess I could better qualify Apex as "staged content;" people mindlessly jumping through a series of memorized hoops/schticks/phases that are really kind of silly and random.
i've tried memorizing randomly selected moves in advance of their being selected before, but it usually doesn't work out for me.

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Never underestimate the ability of a community demanding challenge to torpedo a game's success. People complained CO was too easy before launch so the devs gutted a bunch of powers between the pre-launch open beta and launch day. And people left in droves when they found their heroes were now gimped.
Uh, not exactly. The defensive passives in particular were not rebalanced because of a vocal minority of players complaining the game was too easy. Someone went spreadsheet-crazy at the last second, something I thought they would have learned their lesson not to do from City of Heroes. They did that here, with Super Reflexes one day before launch. They then made the same mistake in CO, but with every defensive power in existence simultaneously. Progress.

And they did it completely wrong. I still have the notes to prove it. But that wasn't what hurt CO. What hurt CO was the massive content gaps and horrific assumptions about playable content the devs seem to have made throughout the entire game. Once again, something I thought they would have learned their lesson not to do from City of Heroes. Except instead of the intermittent gaps that existed in CoH at launch, there was just plain content cliffs in CO. Once again: progress.


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Jack had already handed things over to Roper, who of course everyone in CO just loved. /sarcasm
It was all over by then. Long before that, Jack checked out of CO to oversee STO, just as he checked out of STO to oversee the next thing. But more importantly, if you think either of them had any significant impact on the details of CO's implementation or design, well you must not have been in the CO beta. Or for that matter, understand how MMOs are developed. Or, for that matter, know anything at all about Jack Emmert. No one who's had even one conversation or PM exchange with Jack would make that mistake. Jack is not, how to put this, a details-oriented games designer.


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That's a quote that likely doesn't exist. Aside from a brief exchange on these forums, I never got to talk to Emmert. But he did agree I was right the Family and their tommy guns had no business being as high level as they were, and I wholeheartedly agreed when he said Tankers should be powerful and that they weren't and that super strength characters should be knocking over buildings.
Trust me, it does. I have a knack for remembering such things. You said you thought Champions Online would benefit from the fact that based on exchanges you had with Jack, he agreed with your assessment of tankers.

That's neither here nor there, because even if that quote isn't recorded anywhere, I'm absolutely certain it wouldn't be hard to find multiple quotes of you saying CO was going to fix the ills of this game by allowing people to feel "super." I'll let you in on a little secret: I was in the beta from almost the beginning, including when you were making those statements. And wishing I had a way to convey just what a train-wreck the CO development cycle was without breaking NDA.


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This I'll agree with you on. They're too long IMO and the devs can't adapt as fast as I think they need to.
Except I don't know anyone faster. I've been in over a dozen MMO betas since first starting to play this one, and I'm familiar with more MMOs on top of that. I haven't seen the MMO dev team that can execute anything significant on a time scale of weeks rather than months, or launch anything on a time scale of months rather than a year or more.

I'll say this for Cryptic: CO and STO were cranked out very fast as industry standards go. Which only means they took two years. And still launched with not enough content to fill a thimble between the two games combined.

Is this team fast? Honestly, no, not really. And I'm on record as saying if Paragon Studios was a high school student, it would flunk basic algebra. But you know there's three superhero MMOs out there, and I've seen them all very closely, and I'm inclined to say that about all three. Having said that, I think this dev team does pretty well with what they have given the competition. It never happens as fast as I would like, but I think they have the right idea.

So many things players said this game needs I've seen one of the other two do, to their detriment. Cryptic did me a great favor by doing so much of what other players have said over the years CoX needed to do, and demonstrated it either wasn't unambiguously a good idea, or patently a bad one (which is not to say all of their ideas were bad: some were actually very good).

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Ahh, Johnny Butane and his fiery temper. What better is there to warm me on a cold winter day?

I really hope you (JB) could actually descend from your "god" status down to where normal people linger. Your tankers will not become gods and you aren't the person who should oversee the development of this game. Merry Christmas!

- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Uh, not exactly. The defensive passives in particular were not rebalanced because of a vocal minority of players complaining the game was too easy. Someone went spreadsheet-crazy at the last second, something I thought they would have learned their lesson not to do from City of Heroes. They did that here, with Super Reflexes one day before launch. They then made the same mistake in CO, but with every defensive power in existence simultaneously. Progress.

And they did it completely wrong. I still have the notes to prove it. But that wasn't what hurt CO. What hurt CO was the massive content gaps and horrific assumptions about playable content the devs seem to have made throughout the entire game. Once again, something I thought they would have learned their lesson not to do from City of Heroes. Except instead of the intermittent gaps that existed in CoH at launch, there was just plain content cliffs in CO. Once again: progress.


It was all over by then. Long before that, Jack checked out of CO to oversee STO, just as he checked out of STO to oversee the next thing. But more importantly, if you think either of them had any significant impact on the details of CO's implementation or design, well you must not have been in the CO beta. Or for that matter, understand how MMOs are developed. Or, for that matter, know anything at all about Jack Emmert. No one who's had even one conversation or PM exchange with Jack would make that mistake. Jack is not, how to put this, a details-oriented games designer.


Trust me, it does. I have a knack for remembering such things. You said you thought Champions Online would benefit from the fact that based on exchanges you had with Jack, he agreed with your assessment of tankers.

That's neither here nor there, because even if that quote isn't recorded anywhere, I'm absolutely certain it wouldn't be hard to find multiple quotes of you saying CO was going to fix the ills of this game by allowing people to feel "super." I'll let you in on a little secret: I was in the beta from almost the beginning, including when you were making those statements. And wishing I had a way to convey just what a train-wreck the CO development cycle was without breaking NDA.


Except I don't know anyone faster. I've been in over a dozen MMO betas since first starting to play this one, and I'm familiar with more MMOs on top of that. I haven't seen the MMO dev team that can execute anything significant on a time scale of weeks rather than months, or launch anything on a time scale of months rather than a year or more.

I'll say this for Cryptic: CO and STO were cranked out very fast as industry standards go. Which only means they took two years. And still launched with not enough content to fill a thimble between the two games combined.

Is this team fast? Honestly, no, not really. And I'm on record as saying if Paragon Studios was a high school student, it would flunk basic algebra. But you know there's three superhero MMOs out there, and I've seen them all very closely, and I'm inclined to say that about all three. Having said that, I think this dev team does pretty well with what they have given the competition. It never happens as fast as I would like, but I think they have the right idea.

So many things players said this game needs I've seen one of the other two do, to their detriment. Cryptic did me a great favor by doing so much of what other players have said over the years CoX needed to do, and demonstrated it either wasn't unambiguously a good idea, or patently a bad one (which is not to say all of their ideas were bad: some were actually very good).
The content they had was quite fun. I liked the Big Trouble Little China string of missions and the events that occurred in that part of town. Canada was fun, as was the ghost town.

However, Arcanaville is right about the gaps. The first year or so of CoH had gaps in the late teens and twenties when there were no missions or content to do for a soloer and the only way to get xp was in street sweeping, which was incredibly boring, however, the gaps in question only lasted a short time.

In CO, however, you hit mission gaps pretty much a day after getting past your last gap.

It was aggravating in the extreme. Especially since, by the time it went live, I had done most of the 1-20 missions and had no more taste for redoing them.

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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

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I... hold on... ::looks around:: Oh, MOO, you almost got me! I thought for a moment this was a different hornet's nest, when it is, in fact, one I've already poked! Not that it needs poking: looks like someone's been at it with lighter fuel already and the hive is buzzing.

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Farewell is like the end
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And there you'll always be
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Laid up in bed with a hacking chest cough.
Way to make my day? Arcana utterly schooling peeps with hard, logical arguement. IMMD

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
But that wasn't what hurt CO. What hurt CO was the massive content gaps and horrific assumptions about playable content the devs seem to have made throughout the entire game.
Those gaps didn't exist until they decided to change the XP curve because they decided the game was too easy and people were hitting the cap too fast. Not to mention there wasn't much to do once you got to the cap.


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But more importantly, if you think either of them had any significant impact on the details of CO's implementation or design
I don't, but you seem to.


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You said you thought Champions Online would benefit from the fact that based on exchanges you had with Jack, he agreed with your assessment of tankers.
You remember wrong. I said that super strength would likely be better executed because Jack "got it" and commented in various interviews that he'd see it done more justice the second time around.

And you know what, I think they did. CO's Might kicks CoH's SS to the curb, dances all over it and then throws Punch's original animation down a manhole where it belongs. I'm not foolish enough to think he personally designed any of it, but I fully expect he put an edict out about the ways it needed to be better. Frankly, CO's interpretation still holds the crown IMO. DCUO's Brawling is a pretty poor showing, all things considered.


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Except I don't know anyone faster. I've been in over a dozen MMO betas since first starting to play this one, and I'm familiar with more MMOs on top of that. I haven't seen the MMO dev team that can execute anything significant on a time scale of weeks rather than months, or launch anything on a time scale of months rather than a year or more.
Well it seems to me, based on my observation, that being the fastest MMO team is like being the fastest tortoise. After all, there seems to be this pervasive philosophy that the entire point of a MMO is to do things as slowly as possible while keeping players paying a fee. Why shouldn't development also take the form of a timesink? Giving players what they want seems secondary to making them wait (and continue paying while they wait) for what they want.

Speaking of wastes of time, this thread is supposed to be about the i19 content, so lets get back to that.


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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Well it seems to me, based on my observation, that being the fastest MMO team is like being the fastest tortoise. After all, there seems to be this pervasive philosophy that the entire point of a MMO is to do things as slowly as possible while keeping players paying a fee. Why shouldn't development also take the form of a timesink? Giving players what they want seems secondary to making them wait (and continue paying while they wait) for what they want.
Do you actually have any experience or inside knowledge of the industray, or are you a chronic Rectal-Cranial Reversal syndrome sufferer? Thats the only other explanation I can think of for tripe like this.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
Well it seems to me, based on my observation, that being the fastest MMO team is like being the fastest tortoise. After all, there seems to be this pervasive philosophy that the entire point of a MMO is to do things as slowly as possible while keeping players paying a fee. Why shouldn't development also take the form of a timesink? Giving players what they want seems secondary to making them wait (and continue paying while they wait) for what they want.
.
Ok, so *what* exactly do players want? Remember, you have to please everyone...

Oh, and you have to keep it coming out at a fair rate of knots as well. ANY MMO playerbase will always consume pretty much ALL the content for your game before you release the next one. Unless of course you make the content so difficult that only 0.001% of your player base will complete it before you release your next set of content.

Come on Johnny, I am calling you out on this.

If you cannot please me with your list of what you would like in the game, then I personally thing that you are talking out your rear end.

And once you have done that list, come up with a new one for what you would like to release afterwards...

And then do this again.

Welcome to the world of MMO development.

You will NEVER please everyone 100% of the time, so you dont even try to. What you *aim* to do, is please most of the player. If people come up and complain, then you try to notice what people say.

Oh, and if you say that the forums are where to pay attention for the majority of the playerbase... total lie. Only 5-10% of the TOTAL playerbase ever post on the forums just once[1].

And yes, i know that Paragon Studios have made some mistakes in the past, but they do seem to be moving it along... for a LONG time we have asked for "end game" content... and now that we recieve it... you just throw it back and say "DO NOT WANT LIKE THIS"

[1] Figure not pulled out of my ***, obtained from various CM people that i know...

 

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I'll never understand why some people play this game if they are, apparently, five seconds away from a rage-quit.

Johnny: Go play a different game. Actively wanting the entire system to blow up in the Dev's faces? Okay. *golfclap* Seriously, I've never seen anyone on here that maliciously *****es like you.

Jesus.

 

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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU View Post
Ok, so *what* exactly do players want?
Here's what *I* wanted (with power set proliferation, customizable powers, and side-switching included - oh, and fingers):

1. For Boomtown to get the Fallout Treatment. At least four contacts there, each with one or more story arcs all leading up to some sort of big finish. Meanwhile, over in the Shadow Shard, work would begin on trimming the fat from some of those TFs and also creating new story arcs for each section.

2. After the Boomtown revamp, the major focus would be on telling the tale of Dark Astoria - and what a tale to tell it would be. Again, at least four contacts, each with big huge gut-wrenching story arcs and maybe a nice new TF or Trial to go along with it all. Also - come up with some way that anyone who'd completed the DA story no longer saw it wreathed in fog (unless they were replaying the story with someone else who hadn't completed it). Meanwhile, over in the Shadow Shard, work continues.

3. Praetoria would take players all the way to <bleeping!> level <bleeping!> 50. Meanwhile, back on Primal Earth, the process of tidying up the Freedom Phalanx TFs would be well underway.

 

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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU View Post
Ok, so *what* exactly do players want? Remember, you have to please everyone...
What I want is for the things that made this game great to always remain in mind and in place for every future addition.
  • Easy teaming.
  • No Trinity; anything can be run without a tank, healer, or debuffer.
  • No gear dependency on any encounter.
  • Fast paced play.
  • Every character can solo all soloable content without temp powers or similar gimmicks that not every character has access to.

The thing that mostly concerns me now is the fact that debuffs and control are becoming a must fill slot on much team content. This tends to force people into a rather dull role for the sake of the team; but content that is tedious withot debuffs or control often becomes trivial with them.

The one thing that pleases me about the new Trapdoor is that he now seems to be almost immune to debuffs. I thought my rad/archery defender would be able to solo him; he was entirely trivial on my ill/emp controller. I don't know if it was a bugged version or not, but the rad debuffs seemed entirely ineffective, and that character lacked the DPS to chase down clones. Now the ill/emp is the go to character when I help people who are struggling; that one can still solo him when he is purple and spawned for a team.

A team of all Scrappers should be able to brute force anything. A team of all Defenders should be unstoppable, as should a team of all Tankers. No game content whatsoever should be uncompletable or even tedious on a wildly unbalanced team. Your friends should be able to bring the character they want to play, and so should you.


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Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
What I want is for the things that made this game great to always remain in mind and in place for every future addition.
  • Every character can solo all soloable content without temp powers or similar gimmicks that not every character has access to.
When was this ever true?

 

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Originally Posted by Jetpack View Post
When was this ever true?
It never was. It never will be. There's always going to be someone that can't, due to build/playstyle/mars being in retrograde, complete some content on their own.

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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU View Post
Ok, so *what* exactly do players want?
gotten most of it, but:

1- more room on bios, possibly as a veteran award

2- ability to switch builds away from trainer, even if only once per hour

3- non-humanoid enemies like four-legged animals

4- for all the base content to get an appearance and story revamp from level 1 onward

5- for the devs to make use of some of that vast wasted space in various maps by placing more potential spawn points in each room

6- the use of more patrols and fewer stationary spawns

7- a ranged attack power pool (then again, the APPs eventually took up something like what the Power Pools should have been to start)

8- each power pool to get a fifth power

9- smarter AI

10- the board to stop complaining anytime something gets harder

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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math

 

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What would I like?

1. More "endgame" of sorts. I like min/maxing my 50s, but it is in a way a waste because nothing in the game requires that. That said, I wouldn't like content that specifically requires IOs, but something along the lines of the two new TFs: can be done on SOs easily if you pay attention to team make-up or just pick competent players, but IOs help a lot.

2. Reworking the Freedom Phalanx TFs. I play all of these on pretty much every single one of my alts in order to get the accolade, and sometimes it is a drag. The 100 defeat alls on Synapse at level 20? Ugh. 10000 hunts on Numina that don't feel that relevant even after reading mission info? Blah.

3. Reworking unused zones like Dark Astoria. Shadow Shard would make for a very nice scenery for Incarnate related stuff, they already have the godlike entities there.

4. Getting rid of defeat all missions where the story does not absolutely require them.

5. A team queue function sort of thing. Basically anyone should be able to flag themselves so that anyone between levels X and Y could just join them. I'd love a feature like this. I play duos almost exclusively (with in-game and real life friends), because I don't bother going through the tedium of building a team. Why would I even do that when a competent duo can blow through missions set for four or more? For the company, yes, but with so many people not even responding to tells I won't go there.

6. Revamping PvP to what it was before I13. I actually almost liked it back then because it was much more simple. Rules can be learned easily (at least I can), but with the rules so complex and the PvPers so few, there is no point in "casual" PvPing. Whatever they do with PvP rules won't get rid of the fact that some power combinations just work better than others, and the old rules were, in my opinion, more favorable to casual players.

- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

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Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
Actually, as long as you're willing to try and meet the minimum requirements (for example, having an Alpha boost slotted for ATF & TM2TF) i'd be more than happy to have you join up on any Incarnate content. Many of the people i play with will also invite almost anyone who wants to join for almost any content.
That's a laudable attitude, but trust me, you don't want me on your Apex team. The one time I played it, I spent probably 90% of the time running back from the hospital, and we never did manage to take out Battle Maiden. I won't say the failure was all my fault, but I certainly contributed, and that wasn't a very good feeling. I don't want to be the anchor dragging everyone else down, especially when there's special rewards (shards, badges) at stake.

I'm glad that there's harder content for the people who want it. But in their zeal to appeal to that group, I hope the devs don't forget about the rest of us n00bs and lamerz.

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Posted

Nice ideas, Flarstux (EDIT: and DSorrow. Yes, even the bit about PvP. )

And Furio: I leveled both a (post-Smoke fix) AR/Dev blaster and the FF/Energy defender in my userpic to 50, mostly solo, in the 04-06 timeframe. I've only just this last issue gotten around to making a build for the latter that uses IOs; she was already retired by their introduction. I remember when debt started at level 5, was the same inside missions as outside, and there was no patrol xp to counter it. I also had a controller who had to run across the Hollows to get to his mission doors. So, yeah. I know the way of the (old-style) squishy.

Schismatrix (and JKCarrier): Exactly. I'm sure my friends will be willing to bring me along, even if I contribute nothing of value to the team, but for the sake of my rather fragile self-esteem, I don't want to be (in my words of earlier) dead weight or a "leech."

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCarrier View Post
That's a laudable attitude, but trust me, you don't want me on your Apex team. The one time I played it, I spent probably 90% of the time running back from the hospital, and we never did manage to take out Battle Maiden. I won't say the failure was all my fault, but I certainly contributed, and that wasn't a very good feeling. I don't want to be the anchor dragging everyone else down, especially when there's special rewards (shards, badges) at stake.

I'm glad that there's harder content for the people who want it. But in their zeal to appeal to that group, I hope the devs don't forget about the rest of us n00bs and lamerz.
The thing is that even the Incarnate TFs can be completed with six or fewer well-built and well-played characters. As long as you're not doing things like running Group Fly when teammates have powers that require being on the ground, any contribution you can make, be it as Vengeance or Fallout fodder, is useful. As long as you're fun to have on the team it doesn't really matter to me if you can solo AVs or have issues taking on more than two even con minions.

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