Massively Antisocial-player Online RPG?
By
Afterimage,
Posted on: 2010-12-12 13:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I really have no clue what you're going on about. You complained about people who want to solo everything in the game, and I pointed out the silly extreme. I have no idea what details I would be trying to change.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
No one mentioned +8 liuetenants. The argument has been mostly about EBs and how some can be rather tough for some people. Ergo, it merely seems like you're trying to save face by changing details.
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It's actually easier for me to wait for the bug to be fixed...
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Bugged or not, if something is hard even for an ubermegasoloer, it's still okay to ask for help. (-:
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This.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Show me one other thing in the game that actually makes you more powerful simply for running a single arc and then playing the game fairly normally. Everything else gives you reward merits, and as I said, reward merits in and of themselves do not make you more powerful.
This particular arc unlocks the ability to gain the Alpha slot, which does indeed do more to make you more powerful than any other single story arc in the game. It should be more difficult than other content to reflect that. Personally, and I'm probably an extreme minority in this, I'd rather NONE of the missions in that arc be auto-completable. Am I going to stand on my soapbox and complain about it until they do it? No, not even a little. They allowed most of the missions in the arc to be auto-completed, and I see no reason why they should change it after the fact, but if they had not allowed it, I wouldn't be complaining either. I really don't get why people are complaining that end game content is too hard for them to do alone. End game content is generally defined as: Something for max level characters to do that is usually more difficult or challenging than content that comes before it. How many other games have end game content that is even soloable at all? I can't speak from experience, but I'd wager a guess that the answer is "not too damn many". I say, be glad that the devs even gave us the option to solo it, and auto-complete missions if need be. They could have taken a page from other games' playbooks and made the end game content a massive raid that you have to have all the best gear to complete, but that raid is where you get the best gear in the first place. (I think we know which game I'm referring to here) |
Really IMO the arc should have been slightly harder.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
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Hard EB =/= +8 Lieutenant.|
Originally Posted by Mirai
I really have no clue what you're going on about. You complained about people who want to solo everything in the game, and I pointed out the silly extreme. I have no idea what details I would be trying to change.
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Hard EB, period =/= bug.
If an EB is actually too hard for you, it's okay to ask for help. Your insistence that you should be able to solo all of them without trouble regardless of the character (as face it some EBs are easier on some builds and harder on others) and declare it a bug if you find one beyond your abilities is already a silly extreme.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But that makes you less of a man, and unworthy of the Incarnate system, which should only reward those who are worthy.
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I think you're confusing me with somebody else.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
If an EB is actually too hard for you, it's okay to ask for help. Your insistence that you should be able to solo all of them without trouble regardless of the character (as face it some EBs are easier on some builds and harder on others) and declare it a bug if you find one beyond your abilities is already a silly extreme.
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I don't insist that I should be able to solo any EB with any character without trouble. In fact, I have characters that don't solo any EBs. Meanwhile, my best EB killer has never faced an EB she couldn't kill. The reference to the bug thing was specifically with my top soloer, and the bugs in question didn't have to do with EBs at all.
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Again, you're saving face by changing details since only now did someone (you) mention +8 lieutenants.
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Originally Posted by Mirai
I think you're confusing me with somebody else.
I don't insist that I should be able to solo any EB with any character without trouble. In fact, I have characters that don't solo any EBs. Meanwhile, my best EB killer has never faced an EB she couldn't kill. The reference to the bug thing was specifically with my top soloer, and the bugs in question didn't have to do with EBs at all. |
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What?|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Again, you're saving face by changing details since only now did someone (you) mention +8 lieutenants.
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Seriously, what?
I specifically said bugs. I meant bugs. You're the one who decided that bugs meant difficult content, not me.
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Because frankly that's what the context of what you wrote implied.|
Originally Posted by Mirai
What?
Seriously, what? I specifically said bugs. I meant bugs. You're the one who decided that bugs meant difficult content, not me. |
Read your own post again.
Im offended some people dont wanna team with me. I dont even talk that much!!
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
+rep. Lots of it.
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This. seriously. If we had stars you'd be getting a bunch of em.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
My 2 inf: In any MMO, there needs to be solo content. There also needs to be team content. I like to solo, and I do solo quite a bit. However I also like teaming up and I do that too.
My first 50 hero was a Tanker, and I bet you he's maybe soloed one story arc in his entire career. What's the point of playing a Tank if I don't have anyone to tank for? But on my Masterminds I usually want to be left alone. Those random pets I get when my MM's use the LFG window are so hard to control. 
My point is: a good game should support both playstyles. This way you make more people happy and keep more subscribers. More subscribers means more money flowing in. I think CoH does a very good job of doing this. Our difficulty system is the smartest thing I've ever seen in an MMO. Mechanically, I truly believe we have the best game out there with the most varied options for supporting different playstyles. I was actually quite shocked to learn that becoming an Incarnate could be solo'd at all (poor drop rates or not) and my hat is off to the Devs for doing it. Just another example of how good this game is. I have my reservations about the Incarnate-specific content, but that is not relevant to this discussion.
I think a lot of people have formed the idea they have to solo everything because of bad experiences in the past. They join a team and get berated for power choices, or ask for help and get mocked or worse yet ignored. This is why I will always help someone that asks. I've made several global friends this way. So to those who've been guilty of ignoring requests for help: the next time someone needs help taking down Protean, don't just ignore it and move on because you don't get Incarnate Shards off him. Help them. Maybe then those folks will get the idea that yes, teaming is actually OK and a viable option. If enough folks do that, then we will start seeing far fewer threads complaining about non-solo content. Now hush up already and invite my TA Defender to your team.
Why are people so obsessed with forcing other people to play their way? As far as I see it, the 'i like to solo' crowd are simply saying 'give us the option to solo things', and thr 'teaming is good' brigade are saying 'make it harder! Make teaming the ONLY way!'
One of the reasons I love this game so much is because of the social aspect of it. For me, and it seems for many others, that social aspect is not teaming, but chatting woth @friends and channel-mates while I solo.
Multiplayer=/=teaming.
Multiplayer = interacting with other players.
If you like to team, woohoo for you. I'm sincerely happy that the mechanics allow you to fill your boots with creamy teamy goodness. It doesn't dirty my game when you team.
If the 'hard' stuff is scaled so that I can solo it, why does that affect anyone else at all?
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Inaccurate. We're saying you shouldn't be afraid of using the team function if something seems to be beyond your abilities solo. Nice way to construct a strawman.
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Why are people so obsessed with forcing other people to play their way? As far as I see it, the 'i like to solo' crowd are simply saying 'give us the option to solo things', and thr 'teaming is good' brigade are saying 'make it harder! Make teaming the ONLY way!'
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What is wrong with you today Scythus? None of what you said Mirai said did she say. You're the one twisting her words. I don't know if you have complete and utter comprehension fail or you're doing it deliberately to provoke a fight, but I admire her restraint in talking to you, which is akin to talking a not-particularly bright brick wall.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Because frankly that's what the context of what you wrote implied.
Read your own post again. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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False, it's exactly accurate. I said the exact same thing as MrCaptainMan two days ago. The only thing we were having an issue with in the other thread is that we had a choice taken away from us. The "you need to team in a multiplayer game!!!" crowd rose up on its hind legs and roared that we were dirty soloers who are antisocial... which led directly to this thread. As I pointed out earlier, see the thread title.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Oh really? So try reading this and tell me that it doesn't declare anything she can't beat a bug.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
What is wrong with you today Scythus? None of what you said Mirai said did she say. You're the one twisting her words. I don't know if you have complete and utter comprehension fail or you're doing it deliberately to provoke a fight, but I admire her restraint in talking to you, which is akin to talking a not-particularly bright brick wall.
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Originally Posted by Mirai
If I can't get through a standard mission with my ubermegasoloer, then there's a nasty bug that needs to get fixed.
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You're misreading it.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Oh really? So try reading this and tell me that it doesn't declare anything she can't beat a bug.
Seriously, context is everything and it frankly looks like she was declaring a challenge beyond her skills as a bug. |
Edit: IOW, What you think she said is not what she meant.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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No, what happened is she didn't make her point clear.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
You're misreading it.
Edit: IOW, What you think she said is not what she meant. |
If she had said something like, "If I can't get through a mission on my elite soloer, it's usually because of bugs." That lays the blame squarely on actual bugs.
What she says instead is; however, is "then there's a nasty bug" which is a declaration that assumes because something was hard for her, it must have been a bug. See how the proper wording changes context entirely?
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It's ridiculous that you talk of context when you ignore her earlier post when she talks specifically about how she plays. Her "ubermegasoloer" can take on nearly everything, so if it runs into something it *can't* handle, then there's a bug. (For instance, when Rikti swords were doing insta-kill shots back in Issue 2.) That's what she meant, I understood it to be that, and her clarifications reinforced that notion.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
No, what happened is she didn't make her point clear.
If she had said something like, "If I can't get through a mission on my elite soloer, it's usually because of bugs." That lays the blame squarely on actual bugs. What she says instead is; however, is "then there's a nasty bug" which is a declaration that assumes because something was hard for her, it must have been a bug. See how the proper wording changes context entirely? |
Did she painstakingly explain precisely what she meant in belts-and-suspenders legalese that you find in fine print? No. She assumed a general level of intelligence on the reader to get what she meant. Regardless, she later clarified it here:
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| I have characters that don't solo any EBs. Meanwhile, my best EB killer has never faced an EB she couldn't kill. The reference to the bug thing was specifically with my top soloer, and the bugs in question didn't have to do with EBs at all. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Ah, then I apologise, I misunderstood. Sure, if sth is too difficult to solo, then I see of course that a team would be a helpful stopgap until the devs provide an alternative, solo-friendly, method of completing the content without having to resort to the autoconplete feature. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
Inaccurate. We're saying you shouldn't be afraid of using the team function if something seems to be beyond your abilities solo. Nice way to construct a strawman.
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I thought you were /unsigning any suggestions to expand the difficulty settings to offer 'easy mode' for soloists.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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I don't know if this has any bearing on the 'solo vs teaming' playstyles debate, but I responded to an NCSoft Customer Support survey this morning. I've done this a few times, but this was the first time I noticed a section that asked me to 'choose the option that best describes your preferred playstyle', and the three options were 'I solo all the time/keep to myself', 'I team with others, but not regularly', and 'I regularly team or play with a group'.
That says to me that the devs are totally accepting of solo players, and may even be a sign of data-collecting with a view to increading the amount of soloable content. Since only one of those options is actually describing a team-centric style of plY, it could be argued that teaming is a minority behaviour in CoH.
When people drag out the 'the second M in MMO means MULTIPlayer!' refrain, I think maybe they're either missing the point or living in the past. Even WoW has alteted to reduce the teaming necessary for its endgame raids over the years. First you needed 50-odd players, then 25-man dungeons were implemented (very successfully) and now 10-man raids, so I hear.
If the LRSF becomes soloable due to difficulty slider expansion, the sky will not fall down. People will still team for it. And you'll also get more people doing it that otherwise wouldn't, for many reasons.
I'm a 6.5 yr vet. I haven't finished an LGTF or seen much of the Khan or STF when I did them because the other team members wanted to speed run them.
That's not my fault. That's nobody's fault. It's the way the game is at present. But I live in hope that one day I'll be able to enjoy those TFs my way, without pissing off the team-players out there.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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I see that the insane twisting of words continues. This argument continues to get sillier by the second.
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