Massively Antisocial-player Online RPG?

Originally Posted by GuyPerfect

You know, Lord Recluse has always been pretty tough to solo. And Widdershins on my Elec/Pain Corruptor? Yeah, can't be done. I don't think I've ever soloed Nosferatu, except maybe with my Peacebringer running Light Form. Envoy of Shadow took more Inspirations than you can shake Nurse Francine at.

My response in these situations, at least from my perspective, was quite reasonable: I acknowledged that some foes or missions are too difficult to solo, so I asked for help. Apparently what I was supposed to do was come to the forums and complain about how the entire game isn't easy for all my characters... or something?

Look, I know people like to be able to accomplish things on their own, but let's think about this realistically for a moment. Some enemies are, by design, so hard that you can't take them down by yourself, and no matter what server you play on, there are always hundreds of other players online who can help you...

I mean, not to put two and two together or anything, but doesn't it seem a bit unreasonable to refuse to ask for help?

Yeah, Trapdoor's kinda rough. As is fighting Holtz and the Honoree at once with all those Rikti coming out of the portals. And the Minotaur at the end, what with that Endurance debuff it has. So if you can't do it alone, is it really something the devs have done wrong and they are for some reason at fault for making a terrible game? Be honest, now: is it?

Where does this idea come from, that every mission must be soloable with all characters? To me, that's the unreasonable part in all of this. There's no sense in spurning all the other players in the game with you when you find yourself up against something that you can't overcome all alone. Doing that in real life is a major disservice to oneself; I don't see why it should be expected to be any different in this game.

It's okay to ask for help, it really is. The game was designed with the specific purpose of allowing players to work together, so I would hope that we as players can recognize that as a core feature of the game and make use of it when appropriate. I really don't think we're entitled to talk down to the devs just because they do something differently than we would have.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

I'd rather fart poetry than speak the lifeless platitudes you deal in.

Originally Posted by Schismatrix

*pauses, realizes this means there's a chance of encountering GG on a team*
*runs around flailing like a muppet*

Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim

I love how this thread started as "You should team if you have problems, people who are having problems" and devolved into "I AM ENTITLED TO SOLO EVERYTHING, DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO, I AM DESERVING OF ALL THINGS I REQUEST!"

Sad. I'm going to go back to smashing apart Malta.

Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan

Whether it's in game or real life, as long as it doesn't impact me much I don't take anything away from people that want to complain about content...you have the right to do so.

I just see things a little differently b/c more times than not, I'm overseas and not able to play as much as I'd like to. I can't remember the last time I found anything I wanted to complain about in CoX b/c I'm usually just thrilled to play.

I hope the devs give you the options you are looking for man.

Originally Posted by Flarstux

Characters do not gain godlike power in that arc. Gaining the 'godlike power' is evidently going to take months and months of playing and possibly several Issue releases.

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

Show me one other thing in the game that actually makes you more powerful simply for running a single arc and then playing the game fairly normally. Everything else gives you reward merits, and as I said, reward merits in and of themselves do not make you more powerful.

This particular arc unlocks the ability to gain the Alpha slot, which does indeed do more to make you more powerful than any other single story arc in the game. It should be more difficult than other content to reflect that.

Personally, and I'm probably an extreme minority in this, I'd rather NONE of the missions in that arc be auto-completable. Am I going to stand on my soapbox and complain about it until they do it? No, not even a little. They allowed most of the missions in the arc to be auto-completed, and I see no reason why they should change it after the fact, but if they had not allowed it, I wouldn't be complaining either.

I really don't get why people are complaining that end game content is too hard for them to do alone. End game content is generally defined as: Something for max level characters to do that is usually more difficult or challenging than content that comes before it. How many other games have end game content that is even soloable at all? I can't speak from experience, but I'd wager a guess that the answer is "not too damn many".

I say, be glad that the devs even gave us the option to solo it, and auto-complete missions if need be. They could have taken a page from other games' playbooks and made the end game content a massive raid that you have to have all the best gear to complete, but that raid is where you get the best gear in the first place. (I think we know which game I'm referring to here)

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

My only complaint is that they took away the other options to unlock it.

I would not mind if they added more arcs that can unlock the Incarnate abilities in later issues. Running the same arc over and over and over and over and over eventually becomes mind numbingly stupid.

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

Somehow, I don't think it is intended for people with 45 level 50 characters to make every single one of them an Incarnate.

As far as I can tell, I'm doing it more or less the way they had in mind when they created the system. I think about which characters I want to be Incarnates, and how far I want them to go on that path. A few of them will be going the full path, most of the rest of them will be stopping at the Alpha slot. A couple others may be going a couple steps farther than the Alpha, but I'm not sure yet because we don't know what the rest of the Incarnate slots are yet.

I don't see it as being much different than Accolades really. If you want those accolades, you have to run a specific mission, or kill a certain number of semi-rare enemies. To get one accolade, you are forced to run 6 TFs. Doing any of those things will get old when you do it over and over again, what makes you think the Incarnate arc will be any different?

Another thing: It is very likely we are going to have to run something else to unlock the rest of the slots. Besides, end game content is nothing more than a time-sink, pretty much by definition, why is it so surprising that it is time consuming to do?

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

Show me one other thing in the game that actually makes you more powerful simply for running a single arc and then playing the game fairly normally. Everything else gives you reward merits, and as I said, reward merits in and of themselves do not make you more powerful.

This particular arc unlocks the ability to gain the Alpha slot, which does indeed do more to make you more powerful than any other single story arc in the game. It should be more difficult than other content to reflect that.

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

Personally, and I'm probably an extreme minority in this, I'd rather NONE of the missions in that arc be auto-completable.

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha

Uhm...not really? All I've seen is people stating the reasons, pretty civilly, why they prefer solo and how the Devs, in the past, have made that a possibility that keeps everyone happy.

Oh, and people like your good self telling them, effectively, they are 'Doing it Wrong.' Which might just be why some people are getting snappy at all.

Originally Posted by Scythus

He wasn't belittling anything. His post is very civil. Some stuff is just simply too hard for some people. This is true in quite a few games. He's just saying people shouldn't get all angsty over difficult content and should consider swallowing their pride once and a while.

Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker

The basic premise is that it's a team game and if your schedule doesn't fit that then it sucks to be you.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Can I complain if I don't like PvP, but people are telling me to get shivans or I'm a stupid doo-doo head?

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

All I'm asking for is an option to NOT play the game like I'm forced to live my real life.

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

Just as a point of history, in GR beta there WERE OTHER options for unlocking incarnates.

People in beta whinned like babies sucking on bottles, (hey if the OP can come off all like an A$$ so can I) and the devs delayed the incarnate content and added an arc to unlock it, while WHIPPING out all other options to unlock incarnate ability.

Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim

My other trolling thread aside (and mind you, the only trolling thread I've EVER made as I was having a good weekend and was quite cocky at the time of posting) where did I tell someone they were doing it wrong? I applauded the OP and watched people react unfavorably to a very reasonable post. Hell, a few replies have boiled down to "No, don't tell me what to do even if you're being polite."

:/

Originally Posted by Megajoule

I wasn't there, but if I had been, this would have been the content of my whining:
I want story. If you just roll out a new upgrade system with no new content, no new story behind it, just tacking it on to the same TFs we're already running, then it's just... meh. You've added a new set of purples, no more.

Ideally, I'd want multiple new paths, just as you say. But that takes time. And it's unfortunate that the new feature wasn't entirely ready (and some may say it still isn't), and had to be held back for them to add some context for it. But without that context, it IMO looks like lazy or half-baked development.

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

LOL OP was most certainly not being polite.

Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim

He certainly could have said it differently.

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

That we agree on.

Overall (and to difuse tensions I hope) if folks want to play a certain way they can. If they don't then they don't have to. It's not the OP's job or anyone else's to tell them how to play.

Hell the devs of this game are the ONLY ones who have a marginal say in how folks should play. Not any player. I don't care how long or how polite they are in saying so.

The change to trapdoor isn't bad, however it sets a bad precedent (actually continues it) of taking away tactical things that players find. That to me has NOTHING to do with not team or teaming or making the game easier or harder. That to me just sounds like a GM saying "noooo you need to do it this way".

I'm fine with difficult content, however, with that comes using your brain to figure out how to get around that. THAT is part of the challenge. I'm still waiting for them to make it so that he can't be knocked into the lava. Which wouldn't surprise me at all.