Inherent fitness made endurance problems at lower levels worse
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-12-12 08:24 in Player Questions
o.O
I took those toggles at the same time (if not earlier) and have not run into these problem!
Yes, now I have less down time for not attacking, due to have that extra attack, but it's a total of like 2 extra powers before level 20, when most got Stamina.
How exactly are you having problems? Because you didnt take Swift/Health, and instead took attacks, that have Stamina helping you out?
Slot those ENDRED TOs/DOs that drop
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It wasn't so much the issue he was having as it was the tone his post describing the issue had. His post came off very much as "I'm absolutely right about this and I DARE you to prove me wrong!", and when you make a post like that, you should expect a little snark in return. |
Originally Posted by Angelofvalor
I said it before and I will say it again to many insults on these forums even though most will deny it, some of you are being way to rude, the op could be simply confused but no, everyone is to busy looking for a weakness and attack it, its easy to do behind a keyboard, and espically when everyone is attacking at the same time.
Just being so hard on the op, we all make mistakes we all get confused the only ones trolling here are you. It is funny how some of you appear quite intelligent but at the same time have no patience and jump to conclusions and go just as low as everyone else, true intelligence never jumps to conclusions and understands that patience and wisdom also needs to be used. |
I haven't seen anyone being especially rude here, but I have seen several people being blunt about what the problem most likely is. There's a big difference between rude and blunt.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'm just waiting for the "wah!, they gave us a 3rd build, now I'm going to have to farm/buy another entire set of IOs, wah!" thread.
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Tempus unum hominem manet
Ok, the thread was officially over as soon as this was said:
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But that's ok, because we were also blessed with:|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
Stamina didn't make the low level endurance issues worse. Poor decision-making made the low level endurance issues worse.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Top men in the field of science have discovered a direct correlation between people that don't like inherent Fitness and people that spend way too much time door sitting in AE missions.
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Originally Posted by Angelofvalor
It is funny how some of you appear quite intelligent but at the same time have no patience and jump to conclusions and go just as low as everyone else, true intelligence never jumps to conclusions and understands that patience and wisdom also needs to be used.
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Of course, in the CoX forums, even the most humble, polite and respectfully asked question puts you in danger of someone logging on and telling you're an idiot for even asking. Oh well, C'est la Forums.
Gaheris
"I know that will get glossed over and 6 months from now someone here on the forums will make a statement like "Remember back when walk was crashing the mapservers" and someone else will say "Oh yeah, I remember that" and I will drop my face into my palm and die a little bit more inside." - BABs
I doubt 3 extra powers puts you 'over the limit'.
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Originally Posted by Angelofvalor
I said it before and I will say it again to many insults on these forums even though most will deny it, some of you are being way to rude, the op could be simply confused but no, everyone is to busy looking for a weakness and attack it, its easy to do behind a keyboard, and espically when everyone is attacking at the same time.
Just being so hard on the op, we all make mistakes we all get confused the only ones trolling here are you. It is funny how some of you appear quite intelligent but at the same time have no patience and jump to conclusions and go just as low as everyone else, true intelligence never jumps to conclusions and understands that patience and wisdom also needs to be used. |
Without commenting one way or the other, one merely has to read your post history. It speaks for itself.
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I looked around for it and even though it has not appeared yet, I'm sure somone is putting together a doozy about being pissed that there is a 3rd build that needs to be IOd out now.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I'm just waiting for the "wah!, they gave us a 3rd build, now I'm going to have to farm/buy another entire set of IOs, wah!" thread.
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"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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KK. On it! I'll try to have it composed and posted by lunch.|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
I looked around for it and even though it has not appeared yet, I'm sure somone is putting together a doozy about being pissed that there is a 3rd build that needs to be IOd out now.
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:)
AETT beat you to it.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247225
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Although, even with this thread, and the fact that I mention that that thread is a joke, people are still taking me seriously. I mean come on folks, what part about ME writing that thread made people think it was serious? Are people still confused by the lack of "Stop: Hammertime" avatar?
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Originally Posted by WoefulKnight
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I think you are mistaken and you are jumping to conclusions and displaying a lack of patience and being insulting in this post of yours. Perhaps you should not be so busy looking for a weakness to attack which is so easy when sitting behind a keyboard.|
Originally Posted by Angelofvalor
I said it before and I will say it again to many insults on these forums even though most will deny it, some of you are being way to rude, the op could be simply confused but no, everyone is to busy looking for a weakness and attack it, its easy to do behind a keyboard, and espically when everyone is attacking at the same time.
Just being so hard on the op, we all make mistakes we all get confused the only ones trolling here are you. It is funny how some of you appear quite intelligent but at the same time have no patience and jump to conclusions and go just as low as everyone else, true intelligence never jumps to conclusions and understands that patience and wisdom also needs to be used. |
I also think there are at least 2 trolling posts in this thread not made by people poking at the OP.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Hmmm... methinks Forbin (and a couple others) has a point....|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
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Gospel according to MJ
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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A little thought and a number of good decisions in character build up can go a long way in making your endurance manageable, before or after Stamina.
Originally Posted by Hube02
Why is that?
It's very simple really.
1) You can now take more attacks and defensive powers sooner. (You know, Those things that use up endurance)
2) You have the same number of enhancements to spread over more powers, reducing the amount of endurance reduction enhancements you can slot. (Well, you know, since it is almost a requirement on all AT's to slot 2 ACC enhancements on every attack if you hope to, you know, like, hit anything at all.)
3) Stamina, slotted with low level enhancements does little to overcome the drain added by #1 and #2
It really evens out at higher levels, but the endurance problem for low level characters has only been exacerbated by inherent fitness.
Now, everyone tell me why I'm wrong.
If you really -have- to replace the power slots previously taken up by Fitness by more attacks and toggles, there are lots of cheap, low level IOs that provide Recovery bonus.
Just because you now have early Stamina, doesn't mean you should take all your toggles as soon as possible and turn them on 24/7. If you have to take all your toggles as soon as possible and turn them all on 24/7, then slot them all with 2 or 3 END RDX.
You can also now spend low levels to...you know...get travel powers! Remember those? Remember that nifty Flight pool before Ninja Run came along and made most travel powers obsolete? Yah, those! You have room for those now!
Just because you can't contain your "I must haz all mah powerz! GIMME MOAR! MOAR POWAH! MUHAHAHAH!" urges, doesn't mean inherent Stamina is causing issues.
I could come up with a well reasoned, logical and clear arguement with points well made.
Would it be worth it?
No.
So, have a demotivational instead;
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Winning the lottery made me be more in debt than before I had all that money. Money caused my debt. :(
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That was an awesome pic. I demotivations. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I could come up with a well reasoned, logical and clear arguement with points well made.
Would it be worth it? No. So, have a demotivational instead; |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Option One: Slot Brawl. Don't even put any other attacks or defense/resist or any other toggles in your tray. Use only brawl. Brawl as much as you want! As fast as it recharges! You will never run out of endurance!!!!
This method is guaranteed to work for any AT!!!
Option Two: Use all of your powers as you will. Please note that, with inherit fitness, you will be able to use more attacks and fight for longer than pre-I19, and you will be able to run more defensive/resist or other toggles for longer than before, and you will recover endurance faster in between fights, but you will probably STILL run out of endurance and have to rest.
If you conclude that this means you're less effective than pre-I19, go back to Option One.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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You neglected the third option...|
Originally Posted by Organica
Option One: Slot Brawl. Don't even put any other attacks or defense/resist or any other toggles in your tray. Use only brawl. Brawl as much as you want! As fast as it recharges! You will never run out of endurance!!!!
This method is guaranteed to work for any AT!!! Option Two: Use all of your powers as you will. Please note that, with inherit fitness, you will be able to use more attacks and fight for longer than pre-I19, and you will be able to run more defensive/resist or other toggles for longer than before, and you will recover endurance faster in between fights, but you will probably STILL run out of endurance and have to rest. If you conclude that this means you're less effective than pre-I19, go back to Option One. |
Option Three: Bang your head repeatedly against the nearest hard object until you can no longer read words with more than three letters. Resume playing.
While option three does not guarantee they'll stop running out of endurance it does increase the likelihood, and it pretty much rules out posting to complain about it not working afterward.
*runs out the thread flailing like a muppet*
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Yes. That is exactly the reason that the OP was so confused about Stamina and Endurance management. You need to bring it back! |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Are people still confused by the lack of "Stop: Hammertime" avatar?
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
I'll just point out that in cases where I actually did put off powers in order to achieve Stamina at level 20 (which is by no means every time) I usually chose the attacks and other slot-intensive powers first. So in going back and picking up powers, I pretty much ended up with those that only needed a single slot.
Since the powers are not opening up any earlier than they were previously, it's not like there are more than a handful of powers in your Primary or Secondary that you can choose from. And if you've already picked up the slot intensive powers, what's left is the ones that can get by on one slot. If you are picking up slot intensive powers, you're probably getting them out of the Pool.
Granted, I've been saying I wish the devs had added a new Pool of low slot cost, Auto powers, but that's only so I don't have to go looking for low slot cost, click or toggle powers that I can use sparingly. I like Auto powers. Especially for Primary/Secondary combos that don't have them.
In the spirit of trying to be helpful and to help a player, there are plenty of other pool powers you can take and not slot that are useful at times, and then become more useful for global IO pieces. Chances are you already have some of the pools or some of these powers, and some are more useful for different ATs. Chances are if your build worked before inherent fitness, you don't need these anyways, so extra slotting is really unnecessary, though could be nice to have, but the powers are still nice to have on occation. These are just the powers that I replaced those new extra 3 or 4 slots with most of the time.
Medicine
Aid Other - Helpful for others at times. Might use it rarely. Stick a Numina or Miracle global in there later on for more recharge and/or recovery
Concealment
Stealth - More defense. Put an end redx in there. Later on. LotG +Recharge.
Grant Invisiblity - LotG + Recharge mule, plus maybe useful on occations.
Leadership
Maneuvers - A little extra defense never hurt anyone. Plus, LotG mule again.
Assault - More damage. Yay
Leaping
Combat Jumping - GREAT power. More aerial control. VERY low endurance. Extra Defense. Great for a LotG mule as well.
Super Jump - can be fun. Travel power if ya need it.
Flight
Hover - Lotg mule. Useful at times especially for ranged fighters.
Fly - Fun travel power.
Speed
Hasten - Yes, many have it already. But if you don't, it never hurts to add it. If ya didn't have it before, again you don't really need it and you can get by fine without additional slotting
Super Speed - This + Stealth is great for stealthing those anoying missions when needed. Don't have to run it all the time. Also, this, plus combat jumping and hurdle is a decent travel power with much lessvertical movement issues now.
Teleporation
Recall Friend - Useful for emergency medevacs at times. Or just getting your slower or less capable teammates to the next mission quicker. This + Stealth + Superspeed = stealth the team to the AV at the end of a mission if you choose to play that way.
If your primary or anciliary sets already have it, add that self or teammate rez power that you may have skipped since hopefully you or they don't die too often at it was not needed.
hey guiz, wuts goin' on in herre?
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Hube rhymes with n00b.|
Originally Posted by Hube02
Why is that?
It's very simple really. 1) You can now take more attacks and defensive powers sooner. (You know, Those things that use up endurance) 2) You have the same number of enhancements to spread over more powers, reducing the amount of endurance reduction enhancements you can slot. (Well, you know, since it is almost a requirement on all AT's to slot 2 ACC enhancements on every attack if you hope to, you know, like, hit anything at all.) 3) Stamina, slotted with low level enhancements does little to overcome the drain added by #1 and #2 It really evens out at higher levels, but the endurance problem for low level characters has only been exacerbated by inherent fitness. Now, everyone tell me why I'm wrong. |
How bout that...
Wow!
Maybe my wording was bad and maybe it was taken the wrong way, but really... Maybe I should reword it, or explain, or try to defend myself?
...
Nah... since everyone has assumed that I'm either a troller or a complete imbecile, well.... you can go on believing what you want to believe.
Really, wow!
1. Combat Jumping. It hardly use any endurance and adds some defense which always helps.
2. Boxing. I usually take the fighting pool for my characters so this works out well. Plus, it functions as an extra fast, low endurance attack to fill in the attack chain early on.
3. Super Jump. Self explanatory.
With these, it'll get you through level 20 (where you normally would take stamina anyways) at which point you can continue as normal.