How long will the exploits go on?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-11-24 20:30 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It's just as ridiculous and idiotic now as the day he wrote it.
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Originally Posted by Positron
Players are urged to avoid using common farming terms in their story title and/or descriptions. Even if itÂ’s a joke, DO NOT run the risk of having an arc banned and requiring Customer Support to grant you your publishing slot back.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
You do just ignore what people post and indulge in your own private monologue, don't you.
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I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.
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He wasn't raging and screaming at anyone - he was just making it clear that the excessive PLing being done in the AE wouldn't be allowed |
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
That may have been his intent. But a lot of people(if not most) perceived it as a pissed off rant. And how it is perceived is the only thing that matters. His intent isn't relevant in the least bit.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Maybe, but I'd like to have the XP removal be the last resort. There are a few more options to try. But it's clear that whatever the current method for keeping exploits like the current one in check simply isn't enough.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
One thing will fix AE so that all of these dirty exploits *...eyeroll* will stop, and here it is: Remove all rewards from AE. All of them.
At this point I am so tired of the wailing that I am fine with this, or with remving the system from the game entirely. Although action 1 will equivate action 2, if you think about it. Let the "story purists" have their sacred little empty skyscrapers, and let everyone else get back to PI or the Grandville Freaks TV mish ASAP. Its the only way these Content Police will finally, at last and about time be quiet. |
As for the Content Police snark, you must be talking about someone else. For me CoH is an MMO beat 'em up. Start at one end of the map, smash your way through a hundred foes to get to the other end, and click what needs clicking. I just prefer when there's a bit of variety in targets. Standard content is enough for that. Fighting the same thing over and over just gets dreadfully dull to me. That there's a decent to good story with most of these missions is just a bonus.
That other people prefer to fight the same thing over and over is their choice. Except when that thing is fought due to a severely disproportionate reward. Then it's an exploit. But if steamrollering Freaks is how people want to play, then by all means, flatten them. I like a good Freak-bashing, too, but I prefer to follow up with something else.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Actually, he just made it clear that extreme abuse of the AE would be punished - he's not really the sort to go beserk
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How many formal letters released by the lead developer referring to punishment for vaguely outlined parameters of "game abuse" have we had......................oh, right. Only one.
(actually, it's berserk)
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
That may have been his intent. But a lot of people(if not most) perceived it as a pissed off rant. And how it is perceived is the only thing that matters. His intent isn't relevant in the least bit.
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It's common knowledge, unless you know, you live within your own reality.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
He wasn't raging and screaming at anyone - he was just making it clear that the excessive PLing being done in the AE wouldn't be allowed
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That perception is quite narrow minded.
In related news the Sun will rise tomorrow.
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Took me a while to find it, but a response to the statement that the only way to abuse an exploit is to hack the game. From the Terms of Service Agreement:
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Again, I'm not angry at anyone who used this bug, but I would recommend that you stop. I don't know what's going to happen, but there is a possibility you could be reprimanded. It seems to upset some posters greatly that I am telling you this instead of saying nothing will happen. I have no idea why. You're taking a chance. At least let it be an informed one.|
http://www.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-...f-conduct.html You will not exploit any bug in City of Heroes, City of Villains, or Going Rogue and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of City of Villains. Bugs should be promptly reported via 'Ask A Question' at http://support.cityofheroes.com. |
[EDIT: Corrected link]
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Exactly - he's not issuing frenzied letters every week - it was a one-off thing for an exception event |
Originally Posted by Tank_Washington
How many formal letters released by the lead developer referring to punishment for vaguely outlined parameters of "game abuse" have we had......................oh, right. Only one.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Except he was dead on right to do it and I really hope they do something very like it this time. |
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
That may have been his intent. But a lot of people(if not most) perceived it as a pissed off rant. And how it is perceived is the only thing that matters. His intent isn't relevant in the least bit.
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I really don't have any sympathy for the people who claim "but the game let me do it." As an excuse to use an exploit. I'm all for banning people who do that.
Really it isn't that hard to spot when something is an exploit. If you are gaining something, anything at a massively accelerated rate over every other way of doing it then I would suggest being wary of what ever it is. This addresses pretty much everything.
Running a farm? Fine. Simply optimizing your way of doing something isn't breaking the rules. It may annoy a lot of people but really it is just using the games normal mechanics. Running a farm and getting multiple times a reward you would for any other farm? Hmm, let me think two seconds about that. .... Oh right clear exploit avoid like the plague and if you are really smart submit a bug report about it while your at it.
If you have to do something odd or run against one type of foe or something similar it is fairly clear that there is a problem and you should avoid it.
So yes I'm all for unleashing the banhammer like that. I'm sorry some people got grabbed in the data mining that turned out to be innocent and note that they could and did appeal it but you can expect that the devs will have monitored who gained levels how fast doing what. Oh yes you can.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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Any opinions counter to your own have to be framed in the most immature and hyperbolic sense possible. No one ever "comments" or "debates" or makes a "statement", it's always "cries", "whines", "rages", "screams", "freaks out", etc.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Actually, he just made it clear that extreme abuse of the AE would be punished - he's not really the sort to go beserk
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If you were to be honest with how people are speaking, it would be the first step to admitting that maybe they have a valid point or two and that dog just won't hunt here on the webbernetz. Far easier to just say they're a bunch of freaked-out rage-whiners and then you can ignore their comments before they threaten your own thoughts & opinions.
The thing I wonder is- if people DO start getting hit with ban-hammers or other sanctions, then who is gonna get it?
The people who've been on a few farm missions on various characters just to get to SO-level, or to get past a troublesome spot in their levelling?*
Or the ones with accounts full of level1-50 AE babies, who do little else BUT powerlevel?
For what it's worth, I've been on sewer runs that got low level characters almost as many levels as one small AE farm map. And I did hear at least one guy say he had been banned for AE abuse- but he also said that he had made 11 level 50's, just from those green hami mitos or something like that. 11 characters from level 1-50. Not gaining a few extra levels here and there on characters he hadn't played with in a while.
*I've had this happen a few times- It's hard finding teams in your level range, it seems that all the teams forming up are higher level, and either they don't seem to want a lower level member, or they're doing level-gated stuff like task forces. So it's tempting to PL enough to get "over the hump" as it were. Like if you're 43 and it seems that everybody else just wants to do the level 45+ TF's
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
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The devs won't say what the limit for PLing is, because then people would PL just inside the limit - for example, if they said PLing to 50 in 6 hours was too fast, then people would PL to 50 in 6 hours and 5 minutes.
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Originally Posted by Amanita
The thing I wonder is- if people DO start getting hit with ban-hammers or other sanctions, then who is gonna get it?
The people who've been on a few farm missions on various characters just to get to SO-level, or to get past a troublesome spot in their levelling?* Or the ones with accounts full of level1-50 AE babies, who do little else BUT powerlevel? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Meh just ban the people who make the farms, makes decisions a lot easier.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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To clarify, I wasn't referring to you as Content Police. Content Police are people like those in here salivating at the thought of mass bannings for anyone who does not use AE as they think it should be used. | McNum: As for the Content Police snark, you must be talking about someone else. |
I find such salivation incredibly mean-spirited and antisocial, but what do I know.
I have never gotten anyone to 50 in an AE farm, that I remember. However if I got a character rolled back or deleted, I would just start them over. No raging, screaming or ragequitting, just a reroll.
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Wrong. They did put a number on it. I believe it was 9-10 hrs.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The devs won't say what the limit for PLing is, because then people would PL just inside the limit - for example, if they said PLing to 50 in 6 hours was too fast, then people would PL to 50 in 6 hours and 5 minutes.
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Okay, we can agree on that. One thing is to want to see something done about exploits, another is to find joy in seeing other players banned for it. The first is what I want, but I don't want to see mass bannings just so I can sit on my high horse and laugh at them. That's not solving anything.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
To clarify, I wasn't referring to you as Content Police. Content Police are people like those in here salivating at the thought of mass bannings for anyone who does not use AE as they think it should be used.
I find such salivation incredibly mean-spirited and antisocial, but what do I know. I have never gotten anyone to 50 in an AE farm, that I remember. However if I got a character rolled back or deleted, I would just start them over. No raging, screaming or ragequitting, just a reroll. |
I only point and laugh at someone getting banned when they really deserve it, like being racist or sexist morons in broadcast, harassing someone or similar. Those people can just get out and stay out.
Also, rereading the CoH Code of Conduct... we're apparently not supposed to trade cross-server. I believe that part needs a re-write with the market and global email systems in place now.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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I only point and laugh if the person said they couldn't or wouldn't be banned.
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Originally Posted by McNum
Okay, we can agree on that. One thing is to want to see something done about exploits, another is to find joy in seeing other players banned for it. The first is what I want, but I don't want to see mass bannings just so I can sit on my high horse and laugh at them. That's not solving anything.
I only point and laugh at someone getting banned when they really deserve it, like being racist or sexist morons in broadcast, harassing someone or similar. Those people can just get out and stay out. Also, rereading the CoH Code of Conduct... we're apparently not supposed to trade cross-server. I believe that part needs a re-write with the market and global email systems in place now. |
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Originally Posted by AddamsFamily
(BTW, it was one run and out. Followed by a report. I know an exploit whan I see it.) |
Here's part of the problem when discussing exploits and banning the users of said exploits. Players new to the game don't know whan the "normal" XP rates are. A player that just bought the game isn't going to have any idea of how fast the game is going to allow them to level. All they know is that they got through the tutorial (which is also not an accurate indicator of level advancement), entered Atlas and responded to a broadcast for an AE team. This is especially true of a player that is picking up CoX as their first MMO. They did what they would have been expected to do as a new player and nothing else. Deleting that players characters or banning the player is a sure fire way to lose that account, so why would the Devs do such a thing? It's one thing to do that to a player that should know better, but something else entirely to do it to a new player that is far more likely to just uninstall because of it.
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Originally Posted by AddamsFamily
I encountered one while getting tickets for uncommon salvage. (I was not paying 500,000).
(BTW, it was one run and out. Followed by a report. I know an exploit whan I see it.) |
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Originally Posted by Tank_Washington
Which means it was at least three.
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Unless I misunderstood what you're saying then a preemptive mea cupla.
He's insulting AddamsFamily.
The idea is, if you did it once, you did it multiple times.
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Originally Posted by Antigonus
Here's part of the problem when discussing exploits and banning the users of said exploits. Players new to the game don't know whan the "normal" XP rates are. A player that just bought the game isn't going to have any idea of how fast the game is going to allow them to level. All they know is that they got through the tutorial (which is also not an accurate indicator of level advancement), entered Atlas and responded to a broadcast for an AE team. This is especially true of a player that is picking up CoX as their first MMO. They did what they would have been expected to do as a new player and nothing else. Deleting that players characters or banning the player is a sure fire way to lose that account, so why would the Devs do such a thing? It's one thing to do that to a player that should know better, but something else entirely to do it to a new player that is far more likely to just uninstall because of it.
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I agree with you, but this is why adverse actions are usually taken only after a review of the circumstances, including the history of the account. One size doesn't fit all.
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Originally Posted by Jetpack
He's insulting AddamsFamily.
The idea is, if you did it once, you did it multiple times. |
Not insulting, assuming they're lying, to save face with the "purity community", all 1% of them.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Content Police are people like those in here salivating at the thought of mass bannings for anyone who does not use AE as they think it should be used.
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In a perfect world all of those types in this thread would be put in charge of doling out permanent bans to everyone at their discretion who's recently used the AE in a malicious manner.
Followed some days later by the startling gaming news that the highly touted CoH is closing it's doors, all 42 remaining players were sad.
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No, writing a rant to your customers is never a good idea. Again, his intent is irrelevant. Perception is the only thing that matters.|
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
Except he was dead on right to do it and I really hope they do something very like it this time.
I really don't have any sympathy for the people who claim "but the game let me do it." As an excuse to use an exploit. I'm all for banning people who do that. Really it isn't that hard to spot when something is an exploit. If you are gaining something, anything at a massively accelerated rate over every other way of doing it then I would suggest being wary of what ever it is. This addresses pretty much everything. Running a farm? Fine. Simply optimizing your way of doing something isn't breaking the rules. It may annoy a lot of people but really it is just using the games normal mechanics. Running a farm and getting multiple times a reward you would for any other farm? Hmm, let me think two seconds about that. .... Oh right clear exploit avoid like the plague and if you are really smart submit a bug report about it while your at it. If you have to do something odd or run against one type of foe or something similar it is fairly clear that there is a problem and you should avoid it. So yes I'm all for unleashing the banhammer like that. I'm sorry some people got grabbed in the data mining that turned out to be innocent and note that they could and did appeal it but you can expect that the devs will have monitored who gained levels how fast doing what. Oh yes you can. |
Also, mass banning everybody that took part in this exploit will just serve to piss off a lot of people. That is not a good thing for CoH. A small to medium sized MMO like this isn't in a position to piss off potentially thousands of people to teach them a lesson about power leveling.
Loss of AE slots is a definite possibility. So is a temporary ban. Whether that actually happens or not is irrelevant to the very real risk that it will, which is why the best I can do is advise people to delete these missions immediately. IMO that is much more honest position than allowing people to think they're free and clear just because that was the "historic response." Abusing bugs is NEVER a good idea, because you have no idea what the response is going to be. Why even put yourself in that position?
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone