How long will the exploits go on?


Acemace

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
....let them stay at the level they are until they have earned the same amount of exp correctly.
that'll teach all those level 50's who didn't work for it!

=P


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
Its clear that some folk posting here have never worked a day of retail sales in their lives.
It appears that way.

While the game seems to be doing fine in the financial part, it's not like losing 5,000 subs(random number) wouldn't be felt. That is what the people calling for mass bannings are forgetting.


 

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Some contributing factors:
- It is immediately obvious that this is a bug to anyone with some game experience
- Rather than report the bug, the players decided to exploit it for all it was worth
- The players shared the mission so other players could exploit it as well
1: so what? it's been widely known for a good while now and nobody with authority has done anything about it. One of the missions has 700-odd ratings and is sitting at 4 stars. Yes, holiday, I19, blah blah blah. Fact is they haven't bothered to do ANYTHING about it for a long while. And that's not the player's fault.

2: except for the people who reported it THEN exploited it for all it was worth. A binary view of these kinds of issues isn't useful, the playerbase isn't divided between dirty cheating exploiters and paladins of goodness. I personally consider anything active in the play area to be fair game. I'll let them know if I see something I think isn't working correctly, but that's not going to stop me from "abusing" it if I'm having fun.

3: shared what? I found it using the VOODOO MAGIC of the AE search feature.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
that'll teach all those level 50's who didn't work for it!

=P
I lol'ed


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by srmalloy View Post
From the original description of what infamy and influence were -- a measure of your ability to get people to provide you with assistance (i.e., enhancements or salvage or recipes) because of your reputation in the community, whether for good or ill (i.e., redside, it's through intimidation -- they do it because they're scared of you), I've never understood why you earned influence or infamy in AE missions. It seems to me that diving into your electronic navel, although it may be realistic enough for you to improve your skills with your powers, does nothing to increase your respect or fear in the community, and it certainly does nothing for the prestige of your SG. "xXxBlazingBoltxXx? He's that 'hero' who spends all his time running virtuals over in the AE building, isn't he? I've never heard of him taking down so much as a single Hellion or Skull; save your adulation for someone who's actually helped protect Paragon City."
Have you ever watched reality television? Imagine if AE sessions were televised.

I think there needs to be XP in the AE because to do otherwise makes it the demesne of a tiny fraction of the game base who are interested in artistic pursuits for their own sake. I do not believe that's enough people to justify continued dev investment in the tool. Hell, I have doubts that the number of people who use it for XP justify that, but the relative frequency of exploits found there must certainly prop that stat up.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
1: so what? it's been widely known for a good while now and nobody with authority has done anything about it. One of the missions has 700-odd ratings and is sitting at 4 stars. Yes, holiday, I19, blah blah blah. Fact is they haven't bothered to do ANYTHING about it for a long while. And that's not the player's fault.

2: except for the people who reported it THEN exploited it for all it was worth. A binary view of these kinds of issues isn't useful, the playerbase isn't divided between dirty cheating exploiters and paladins of goodness. I personally consider anything active in the play area to be fair game. I'll let them know if I see something I think isn't working correctly, but that's not going to stop me from "abusing" it if I'm having fun.

3: shared what? I found it using the VOODOO MAGIC of the AE search feature.

I'm not the person you need to convince.


 

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
a related though from my last tilt at this particular windmill:

Players can only do what is expressly allowed by the system the devs create.

Barring *actual hacking* there is nothing a player can do in this game that wasn't created, signed off on and published by the developers.

I don't assign blame in these situations- the devs are dealing with an almost comically complex system and can't be realistically expected to catch every little thing, and players being players are going to seek out efficient rewards paths.

But if you must blame, it's silly to ignore the people who created and released the content.

BZZZZTTTT

Wrong Answer!


Hate to be the one telling you this (on second thought, no I don't), but the latest round of exploitive AE farm missions does indeed involve a "hack". At least the one I reported does.

Won't go into any more detail as that could constitute posting exploits on the boards.


If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?

 

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
I'm not the person you need to convince.
So you don't even believe your post, you're just doing some kind of Devil's Advocate gig?

'Patch it and move on' has been the historic response to this stuff.
Posi's freakout was an aberration, and he was moved off the hotseat not long after.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by AddamsFamily View Post
BZZZZTTTT

Wrong Answer!
How so?

If someone actually hacked the game code then that's on them. It's a genuine exploit and the hacker should suffer repercussions.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by Airhammer View Post
why is everyone acting like this the first time these have been seen ???

Seriously.. they have had the meow thing before this and the hamidon bubbles before that and there was something before that I cant remember....

People really just need to get over it...

That would be certain destructible items like Snake Eggs and the Vampire Cabinets. These things were reported in Open Beta before the system went live.

The system went live with some of these still available and took several weeks before being fixed. That should give you an idea of how long it takes to fix these sort of bugs. The current exploit being available for several weeks is fairly typical. It just takes that long to address the situation.


If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?

 

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Originally Posted by Amanita View Post
I suppose you guys are gonna crucify me here..Take a moment to go get some boards, a hammer, and some nails before reading further. Heck, I'll make it easier for you- here's the hammer from my leathercraft toolkit.

Got the stuff? Ok, resume reading.
Yes, I've done some PL'ing in AE. I've had a few characters who've just been sitting around not getting much playtime, who've gotten stuck at various levels. So I've logged in with them and joined a few farm teams of various sorts, to gain a few levels, enough that they didn't feel gimped, or to get them over a hump. Getting SO's is a big help- before that, characters tend to feel pretty weak. That and a decent selection of powers to play with, so I'm not as dependant on my vet attacks.

I've got a level 37 MA/Regen scrapper I'm having fun running right now- he gained some of his levels in AE, but has also gained a decent amount from normal gameplay, I'm working on getting him the TF commander accolade. FWIW, I've played MA/Regen before on Protector server. But Protector is dead at the times I'm online, and I thought it easier to reroll the character- whole new name, character concept, costume, the works.

That said, I do have some caveats about PL'ing- I believe that if you're new to the game, you should abstain from powerlevelling. Learn how to get around, how to use your AT and powers, the game story, and so on.
That alone would cut out a lot of the 50s asking where the tailor is, or how to get to King's Row.

Also, I've only PL'ed AT's that I know my way around- scrappers being my favorite. However, were I to make a character whose AT I am not so familiar with like a defender, I would be much more hesitant to PL- I would want to take my time and get good with the AT, getting practice you just don't in an AE mission.

I really don't see the point of PL'ing all the way from 1-50, doing the same mission over and over. It seems boring and pointless, and even with Incarnates, this isn't the kind of game where life begins at the level cap.

There's PL and then there's cheating (aka exploiting a bug for rewards far beyond what you could normally attain). We're talking about an AE mission that could get you 7 levels in one run.

I encountered one while getting tickets for uncommon salvage. (I was not paying 500,000). My Warshade got two bubbles of experience in less than 10 minutes against opponents he could one-shot.


(BTW, it was one run and out. Followed by a report. I know an exploit whan I see it.)


If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
How so?

If someone actually hacked the game code then that's on them. It's a genuine exploit and the hacker should suffer repercussions.

Not a good idea for me to go into any more detail on the boards. Don't want to give anybody ideas.

I'll just say that the farm I encountered involved a mission set to level 1-25 that included creatures that are only availble in the AE interface from level 30-54.


If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?

 

Posted

There's a part of me that wonders if shutting AE down when exploits like this are discovered and not reopening it until they're fixed is a viable option. I mean, it's like first aid. The very first thing to do, is to make sure the problem doesn't get worse. Then you start fixing it, if you can. Same here. Shut down the AE server access, fix exploit, restore AE. That's the way to cause the least "damage" to the game, although PR wise it might not be the smartest idea.

There'd be rage over this, of course, both from those who make and play stories and for those who farm, both normally and exploitive. However, if the Devs are up-front about the reason "Closed down to fix exploit", it could create a new environment in AE pretty fast. Because if you find any exploit and want to keep using it, you don't share it with anyone. If you do, AE shuts down until it's fixed and you lose at least an arc slot. Because while one or two people using an exploit isn't really that big a deal, looking at the game as a whole, it's when the exploit becomes the standard that it's a problem. And by then it's too late to prevent it from damaging the game, mostly though even more inflation, not to mention the risk of burning out new players before they get to know how to actually play the game.

It seems a little excessive, I'll admit, but it's also getting pretty clear that the current approach doesn't work. Alternatively, they could just shut off XP in AE temporarily, but I'd guess it's easier to just sever the server connection, and it sends a stronger message, too.


Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by AddamsFamily View Post
Not a good idea for me to go into any more detail on the boards. Don't want to give anybody ideas.

I'll just say that the farm I encountered involved a mission set to level 1-25 that included creatures that are only availble in the AE interface from level 30-54.
That is not a "hack" they added Mission Parameters so you can spawn mobs at any lvl you wish, even if its not in their listed lvl range, they can go down in lvl but not up in lvl.


 

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Originally Posted by AddamsFamily View Post

I encountered one while getting tickets for uncommon salvage. (I was not paying 500,000).

(BTW, it was one run and out.)

Which means it was at least three.


 

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Originally Posted by McNum View Post
There's a part of me that wonders if shutting AE down when exploits like this are discovered and not reopening it until they're fixed is a viable option. I mean, it's like first aid. The very first thing to do, is to make sure the problem doesn't get worse. Then you start fixing it, if you can. Same here. Shut down the AE server access, fix exploit, restore AE. That's the way to cause the least "damage" to the game, although PR wise it might not be the smartest idea.
One thing will fix AE so that all of these dirty exploits *...eyeroll* will stop, and here it is: Remove all rewards from AE. All of them.

At this point I am so tired of the wailing that I am fine with this, or with remving the system from the game entirely. Although action 1 will equivate action 2, if you think about it.

Let the "story purists" have their sacred little empty skyscrapers, and let everyone else get back to PI or the Grandville Freaks TV mish ASAP. Its the only way these Content Police will finally, at last and about time be quiet.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Aquabladez View Post
That is not a "hack" they added Mission Parameters so you can spawn mobs at any lvl you wish, even if its not in their listed lvl range, they can go down in lvl but not up in lvl.
Good to know.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Tank_Washington View Post
Positron went berserk over the gift to pl'ing his team handed players, and turned off a number of returning subscribers in the process.
Actually, he just made it clear that extreme abuse of the AE would be punished - he's not really the sort to go beserk


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, but it is nice to see people address exploits. Asking people not to post about exploits is like asking people not to talk about crime. Personally, I'd like the team at CoH to be informed about exploits as soon as possible so that they can fix exploits as soon as possible.

I don't want to determine how anyone has fun in this game, but if you allow exploit users into the marketplace, then it affects everyone who uses the marketplace. Prices on many items have dropped to near zero levels as people running monkey farms get thousands of tickets per minute and use them for rolls then flood the market.

Is this a market opportunity? Sure. But personally I am not having fun. So I'm sitting on my front porch shaking my cane at you darned kids who are exploiting the bugs in the game!!!!


Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
So you don't even believe your post, you're just doing some kind of Devil's Advocate gig?

'Patch it and move on' has been the historic response to this stuff.
Posi's freakout was an aberration, and he was moved off the hotseat not long after.

I have no control over what developers do and don't do. I also have no idea what their reaction is going to be. I just know that anyone who thinks they are immune to the possibility of repercussions needs to rethink their position, because this exploit is so ridiculous and so obviously a bug that pretending that you didn't know it was broken is not going to fly.

Loss of AE slots is a definite possibility. So is a temporary ban. Whether that actually happens or not is irrelevant to the very real risk that it will, which is why the best I can do is advise people to delete these missions immediately. IMO that is much more honest position than allowing people to think they're free and clear just because that was the "historic response." Abusing bugs is NEVER a good idea, because you have no idea what the response is going to be. Why even put yourself in that position?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
I have no control over what developers do and don't do. I also have no idea what their reaction is going to be. I just know that anyone who thinks they are immune to the possibility of repercussions needs to rethink their position, because this exploit is so ridiculous and so obviously a bug that pretending that you didn't know it was broken is not going to fly.

Yeah, like after the Comm Officers when people got their toons deleted. Whambulance incoming.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Actually, he just made it clear that extreme abuse of the AE would be punished - he's not really the sort to go beserk
That may have been his intent. But a lot of people(if not most) perceived it as a pissed off rant. And how it is perceived is the only thing that matters. His intent isn't relevant in the least bit.


 

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Originally Posted by RadDidIt View Post
Yeah, like after the Comm Officers when people got their toons deleted. Whambulance incoming.
I can't decide which part of this is sarcastic and which is serious, lol.

Have people actually been rolled back ASIDE from the occasion of Posi's rant-a-tron?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
That may have been his intent. But a lot of people(if not most) perceived it as a pissed off rant. And how it is perceived is the only thing that matters. His intent isn't relevant in the least bit.
TANGENT INCOMING! TANGENT INCOMING!

Beware, Munki.


 

Posted

Here is the relevant portion of the original Positron post. Whether they follow through with it or not, this is what we were told could happen. The only way to argue that it could not happen is pure wishful thinking. I'm not saying this to tick off the potential violators, but to help them understand why this is an issue and what steps they should take to avoid trouble, now and in the future. Even if the odds are just 5% that they actually follow through, we all know how the RNG hates us.

Quote:
Players who knowingly use an exploit when creating an arc, run the risk of having access to MA suspended, or worse- depending on the severity of the action, their account banned.

Players who have a story arc banned for any reason, will have it continue to use up one of their publishing slots. Players will NOT be able to unpublish this slot without Customer Service’s help. This sets up a “three strikes and you’re out” policy. If an individual gets three story arcs banned, they will no longer be able to publish since their slots will all be used up with banned arcs.This lock will not take place on the first level of “complaint banning”, where an arc has received a larger number of complaints. Players will still have a chance to fix the arc.

If Customer Service looks at an arc and determines it was banned in error, they will mark it as “unbannable”. At that point the arc can not be banned for any reason. The unbannable flag will reset if the player makes any changes to the arc at that point, and the arc can be banned again. Thus avoiding “griefing.”

Remember, publishing slots are account wide, so players will not be able to log in another character on their account and use their slots instead.

Players are urged to avoid using common farming terms in their story title and/or descriptions. Even if it’s a joke, DO NOT run the risk of having an arc banned and requiring Customer Support to grant you your publishing slot back.