How long will the exploits go on?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-11-24 20:30 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Content Police are people like those in here salivating at the thought of mass bannings for anyone who does not use AE as they think it should be used.
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
But this quote of yours is a bit of a misrepresentation of the side opposite your argument.
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Then you're green to these boards 09 because BI hit the nail on the head.
This has gone on for many years, with each new "farm" or cries of PL abuse comes the purity police imploring that ban hammers rain down and eliminate all the vile scum.
As implied in my earlier post, if put in their hands these bastions of (leveling) honesty would review the data of recent AE use and remove a portion of the subscriber base sizable enough to make the game insolvent.
Sharp crowd, right..
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Always thought the need to just remove XP from AE all the way and just leave the inf and ticket flow, that should solve the 1-50 in a few hours... and what's to an inf farm? You can already make plenty of inf playing the market game. 
Oh well... I need to plant seeds in my farm and feed the ducks.
@Lasher
First Of The Year
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Originally Posted by Edgar Allan Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity.
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Which will be a whole lot different from people getting to level 50 10,000% faster than before because of a loophole where one of the game's weakest mobs is giving boss level rewards.
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Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
Even if the developers plug every hole in AE, people will find that one magical little thing that yields them an extra 2% XP per kill and they will farm it to get to level 50 2% faster than before.
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I've never owned or even heard of a cat this stupid. Even the dumbest cats I've had the displeasure of experiencing self-regulated their intake. Either your grandmother was an incompetent caretaker of cats or she was mistaking her cat for what people in the business like to call a dog (that said, if your dog has the above issues, you're doing a poor job of taking care of your dog, too, but most people don't want to accept that accusation).|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
My grandmother used to say that no matter how much you feed a cat, it will always want more and eat more, until it becomes sick and throws up.
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Your argument is still silly. The people who left because of the--at the time--completely justified claims that there was nothing to do at level 50 would have left regardless of if it took them 2 days to level or 2 months. That's what they do.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
It's very off-topic, but I have to wonder, Sam, if your grandmother ever actually owned a cat.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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BI's right on the money with this one.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
People on both sides of this argument have some points. But this quote of yours is a bit of a misrepresentation of the side opposite your argument.
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There are plenty of sanctimonious types around here who'd love nothing more than seeing anyone who doesn't play 'the right way' (defined as THEIR way) get the axe.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I define "right way" as not exploiting hacks. Farmers, marketeers, and PvPers who don't trash talk can do what they like I have no reason to care.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
BI's right on the money with this one.
There are plenty of sanctimonious types around here who'd love nothing more than seeing anyone who doesn't play 'the right way' (defined as THEIR way) get the axe. |
Now if your view is that people who openly mock the game rules are just "playing a diffrent way"?
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So the arguments people made where they powerlevelled to 50 where the game was supposed to begin were justified, then? We should have all new players just get powerlevelled to 50? And the claims people made that they couldn't find a decent team which wasn't door sitting and were constantly badgered with bridge and mid requests weren't justified?|
Originally Posted by LostHalo
Your argument is still silly. The people who left because of the--at the time--completely justified claims that there was nothing to do at level 50 would have left regardless of if it took them 2 days to level or 2 months. That's what they do.
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Please don't insult my intelligence. If you let people ruin their own fun, they will, and that's a fact. Don't believe me? What do you think would happen if the developers instituted a "Level to 50" button at character creation for every player to use? How long do you think the game would survive? You may or may not be perfectly happy just replaying the level 50 content, but I can tell you this for a fact - the general community will collapse.
Want a very practical example of how people powerlevelling are hurting ME? The prices at Wentworts' are absurd. Yes, they mean I can sell high, but they also mean I can't buy squat. I'm just fortunate enough that I've been playing characters too low for inventions. But that's just on the verge of no longer being the case.
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As far as cats go, yes, to allow a cat to overeat to that level constitutes taking poor care of the animal. To allow players to "overeat" constitutes precisely the same level of poor care of the players. And let's not flatter ourselves. "The players" are not better than this. I've seen this more than enough times in the last six years to know better.
And, yes, my grandmother did indeed take care of cats. She never owned any. She was a peasant woman with a large yard where stray cats took shelter and whom she fed. Need I remind you that I don't live in the US, nor did I 20 years ago?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So the arguments people made where they powerlevelled to 50 where the game was supposed to begin were justified, then? We should have all new players just get powerlevelled to 50? And the claims people made that they couldn't find a decent team which wasn't door sitting and were constantly badgered with bridge and mid requests weren't justified?
Please don't insult my intelligence. If you let people ruin their own fun, they will, and that's a fact. Don't believe me? What do you think would happen if the developers instituted a "Level to 50" button at character creation for every player to use? How long do you think the game would survive? You may or may not be perfectly happy just replaying the level 50 content, but I can tell you this for a fact - the general community will collapse. Want a very practical example of how people powerlevelling are hurting ME? The prices at Wentworts' are absurd. Yes, they mean I can sell high, but they also mean I can't buy squat. I'm just fortunate enough that I've been playing characters too low for inventions. But that's just on the verge of no longer being the case. --- As far as cats go, yes, to allow a cat to overeat to that level constitutes taking poor care of the animal. To allow players to "overeat" constitutes precisely the same level of poor care of the players. And let's not flatter ourselves. "The players" are not better than this. I've seen this more than enough times in the last six years to know better. And, yes, my grandmother did indeed take care of cats. She never owned any. She was a peasant woman with a large yard where stray cats took shelter and whom she fed. Need I remind you that I don't live in the US, nor did I 20 years ago? |
I really wish I could sig' this whole thing, Sam. I have farmed and if tomorrow there were serious repercussions and some toons got deleted, I would not moan about it.
Sam is right; the players, us, are not better then this. It's the human condition. If you think he is wrong, then, humorously enough, you are. This is not some scenario where an opinion can convince the Devs (or the masses) of anything.
I'll call the whambulance.
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Just want to restate that I am NOT in favour of banning people or taking away their stuff. This is a BAD way to do things, one which the developers ought to have been burned by last time. It will do little to "discipline" people, were discipline even relevant in the context, and it will just make the Architect even more useless for its intended purpose than it already is, and that's saying something.|
Originally Posted by RadDidIt
I have farmed and if tomorrow there were serious repercussions and some toons got deleted, I would not moan about it.
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I don't feel people should be punished. If anything, I feel a "good game" is in order. Good job, guys. You found the exploit, you exploited it, you grabbed your earnings. Party's over now. Move along. Go back to the game, and we'll try to plug these things up faster in the future.
I tend to adopt a "no harm no foul" policy with these things. Yes, an exploit is harmful while it's actually active, but the solution is not to punish people but to fix it. No, the developers can't predict every exploit which might happen, but they should still close them down as they come up. Nobody has to lose and nobody has to leave angry.
Truth be told, I have nothing but sympathy for the people who got levels off these bugs. So long as the exploiters did so with the full knowledge that it wouldn't last forever, I bear no ill feelings towards the guys and gals. Let 'em keep their stuff, now that they already have it, so long as they aren't big babies about a clear exploit being closed up.
*edit*
I.e. if you got "toons" deleted, I would moan about it
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Siding with Sam and Lasher on this one. EDIT: About human nature that is hehe, I'm still all for the big ol hammer o ban.
It's simple human nature these days (selfishly or not) to get as much as possible fast as possible, the MMO mindset multiplies it even further, it doesn't matter what game it is either, if people find a way to get something fast they'll jump on that gravy train without a second thought, ride it to 50 and then go "Uhhhh now what?"
Speaking of...
All the vets out there, does anyone remember the era of fire/dev blasters before the great smoke grenade nerf?
How bout warwolves in a dumpster followed by a nova?
Those poor endlessly farmed 5th in the axis america map. Oops there's a godwin again...
And lets be honest here, how much would you like to bet that when I19 does go live (if it's not already being done in beta) the very moment some enterprising souls finds the best shard/time ratio a majority of the playerbase jumps on the bandwagon, and the rest of the content that the devs have worked to give us goes unplayed except by us dreaded casuals who actually like to take our time and see everything rather then go "Ohhh look at my shiny 50 I'm so awesome!" *eyeroll*
And as a 69 vet who was around in the era of nonstop bridge requests, portal corp teams who wouldn't know even basic aggro management if it bit them in the behind, defenders whose idea of playing was put healing aura on auto and follow the tank, and the first wave of AE babies whose questions about BASIC coh gameplay broke my brain numerous times I honestly believe the single worst thing for CoH's long term health is a bunch of lil farming prats who exploit their way to 50, whine about the lack of content, have no clue how to play that toon, burn out, then quit.
All the people who say we can't banhammer them because it'd kill the playerbase are ignoring that possible scenario being all too plausible as well. I'll refrain from calling it a fact as I don't have any little voices in my head telling me it's true. =p But personally I would rather see them an army of little GM's going "Puuurrrrge them!" [/warhammer40k] Right now for the short term hit over then watching the endless exploits bring coh down long term when they've done all there is to do and move on.
Honestly? I hate farming with the internet "White hot passion of a thousand suns" And I would love nothing more then to see every person who used this exploit have that particular toon banhammered, a 2 week account ban as a polite way to make the point should they try it again. Permaban on strike three. See I CAN be nice....to a point.
Anyone who makes an exploit farm? Instant loss of all AE slots, end of discussion.
Course in reality we all know that's not going to happen, and both sides here can argue it till we're blue in the face and the devs two months later will still probably be behind the curve on exploit catching.
That and how many arcs these days are passed up on because they aren't offering enough XP gain to satisfy certain power hungry parts of the playerbase? One big problem I have with my own creations is trying to balance what I'd consider "fun" with the fact I need custom mobs that actually offer a decent amount of XP. Because again in realityland expecting people to take the time to play an arc when they won't get much from it is silly. Again, human nature.
So that's where Lasher hit the nail on the head, fastest way to solve every problem with exploits (though probably not salvage prices) Just kill XP gain. How hard could that be to possibly code? And it kills not only this exploit but every other single one that might have come down the line. Makes AE what AE should have been in the first place, a place for player created content (crappy as some of it is) and not a place to sit around and abuse the system all day long.
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I actually see this as a sort of arms race. Players look for new ways to break and exploit the system and the developers look for new ways to keep them from doing that. I agree that players exploiting the system is a bad thing overall, but I actually find that the drive to LOOK for these exploits is actually healthy for the game in the grand scheme of things. More than just raw players, what a successful MMO needs is passionate, driven, excited players. Yes, exploits are not a good thing to get excited about and they should be fixed, but at the same time I don't want to burn people's enthusiasm at the stump.|
Originally Posted by Dragonkat
And lets be honest here, how much would you like to bet that when I19 does go live (if it's not already being done in beta) the very moment some enterprising souls finds the best shard/time ratio a majority of the playerbase jumps on the bandwagon, and the rest of the content that the devs have worked to give us goes unplayed except by us dreaded casuals who actually like to take our time and see everything rather then go "Ohhh look at my shiny 50 I'm so awesome!" *eyeroll*
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In a very simple sense, I want to see people encouraged to experiment, venture and explore all of the possibilities of the game. They should WANT to find a better, faster way to do things. And this simply won't happen if we instil in them the fear of penalties for even trying. I feel it's all "good game" to let people push the boundaries of what's "working as intended" and have the developers plug up the holes where players manage to push too far.
I believe it's human nature for people to have no moderation, but even for that reason alone, game management should work WITH human nature, not against it. Let people invest that drive to "exploit" in the actual game rather than stamping it out entirely. Let them exploit JUUUST a little to where it isn't a big problem, and just keep an eye on where they go from there.
"It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye." Well, I just don't feel there's any need for anyone to lose eyes here, as I'd rather keep it all fun and games. This isn't a battle that's winnable, and fighting it will just make things work for everybody across the board.
*edit*
Historically, the developers have actually let exploits go when only a few people know about them, such as the Wolf Farms. When it was just a few random guys and a few of their friends, no-one really minded. It wasn't until the population at large caught wind and made a big smelly mess on the forums and in-game that someone had to put on the nose plugs and clean it up.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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...and you're still wrong 3 for 3. I said the expired exploit arcs that people are too lazy and selfish to remove when the exploit is done. I couldn't care less about the exploit arcs people are actually currently using, nor could I care less about farms (since, to me, a "farm" is not an exploit). At least with each post you're getting closer given your first response tried to paint me as saying "any arc I don't like". At least were up to "all farms" now. |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Dear "doctor": YOU were the one posting to inform us that you want the devs to use the ban-hammer because you can't find anything in AE except those gosh-durn ol' farms, and you is tired of it!
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Not to mention I did not say I want the devs to use the ban hammer. I said I want them banned AND their hands cut off. It's an important distinction.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
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Do you really think banning people will stop unbanned people from using exploits? I think that's outrageously naive. The only way that would work is to ban people until all that's left is those with the moral fiber to never use an exploit. Oh, there will be people it stops from exploiting out of fear, but I don't think you're going to keep those people in such an environment. If they would like to exploit but don't solely out of fear of punishment, I think they're going to look for what they see as greener pastures, consciously or not.|
Originally Posted by Dragonkat
All the people who say we can't banhammer them because it'd kill the playerbase are ignoring that possible scenario being all too plausible as well. I'll refrain from calling it a fact as I don't have any little voices in my head telling me it's true. =p But personally I would rather see them an army of little GM's going "Puuurrrrge them!" [/warhammer40k] Right now for the short term hit over then watching the endless exploits bring coh down long term when they've done all there is to do and move on.
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Truly mass punishment for something like this is stupid. Even last time around, what they did was not mass bans. Probably a very small fraction of the total player base was punished, just a large enough portion that a lot of people knew someone who was punished. I can promise you that not everyone who used those exploits was punished - only folks who really, really pushed it. (Oh, and some folks who, it seems, got incorrectly caught in the dragnet.)
Lesson shown large last time around, relying purely on automation to identify exploiters cannot be fully trusted - people had characters deleted who were untrained level 50s due to non-PL level pacts. So you have to choose between reviewing all the hits your automation identifies as potential exploiters or risk punishing people who truly did nothing wrong. There are on the rough order of a hundred thousand active accounts for this game. If even just 1% of people used the exploit, that's a thousand accounts that need to be reviewed once automation identifies them. Do they have the staff man-hours to do that, even if it's CSR-type folks who do it? How long would it take given existing workload? Is it worth it? If not, do you risk punishing "good" players, or do you scrap the idea of punishment altogether? Or do you instead try to write a very narrow filter that identifies only the most intense exploiters so it's easier to hand-check them? This lets you set the image that you're doing something, but it's undercut because potentially lots of less intense exploiters go unpunished (and talk about that fact).
Either way, mass punishment of stuff like this is simply impractical. It's a dream world. The main correct response is to correct the defect and move on. The main issue with this one was a matter of timing. Things like this come up all the time in lots of games, but their impact is determined largely by how long they're left in the wild. Events conspired that this one became widely known at a time when the devs could not react in a timely fashion. Stuff happens.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This actually tells me two things:|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Either way, mass punishment of stuff like this is simply impractical. It's a dream world. The main correct response is to correct the defect and move on. The main issue with this one was a matter of timing. Things like this come up all the time in lots of games, but their impact is determined largely by how long they're left in the wild. Events conspired that this one became widely known at a time when the devs could not react in a timely fashion. Stuff happens.
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1. They need to account for the need to do emergency patches not including the new Issue if the need for them arises at a time when the next build IS the Issue.
and
2. Maybe the need to fix that exploit will push I19 to tomorrow! Glee!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm pretty hopeful it will land tomorrow just based on test server fixes for known show-stoppers, and I'll be jaw dropping if our topic-du-jour isn't rectified with it.
Edit: I've read elsewhere that it is indeed fixed on test.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
And a lot of this would be more relevant if we were talking about a "farm" and not a set of conditions where you can manipulate the system into making a Rikti monkey give boss level experience.
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Well since it's alr...oh you edited...hrmmm
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I'm pretty hopeful it will land tomorrow just based on test server fixes for known show-stoppers, and I'll be jaw dropping if our topic-du-jour isn't rectified with it.
Edit: I've read elsewhere that it is indeed fixed on test. |
I do have to say, btw, that one thing that surprises me about the game is the requirement that they do a whole new build to change enemy stats. I don't know if that's standard of graphical MMOs or not, but I always assumed all creature stats would be maintained separate from the user client and could be fixed by rolling out "behind the scenes" changes, which would roll in either immediately or at the next server reset.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
BI's right on the money with this one.
There are plenty of sanctimonious types around here who'd love nothing more than seeing anyone who doesn't play 'the right way' (defined as THEIR way) get the axe. |
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Originally Posted by LISAR
I define "right way" as not exploiting hacks.
Now if your view is that people who openly mock the game rules are just "playing a diffrent way"? |
The same righteous arguments were made for everything that could be classified as a farm for seven years now, when you could herd a map of wolves into a dumpster you were a dirty cheat mocking the game rules even though you were using the games own mechanics.
BI is in fact quite accurate in her assessment.
Personally I missed a lot of the farms through the years, but the recent one I was able to top off some old characters and I had more fun then I've had in the past two years, of which I've almost never logged on, I was on as much as I could last week.
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Most indications seem to be that the basic framework of most of CoH's systems, written way back at the dawn of time, work largely through backwards bizarro logic and fairy dust.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I do have to say, btw, that one thing that surprises me about the game is the requirement that they do a whole new build to change enemy stats. I don't know if that's standard of graphical MMOs or not, but I always assumed all creature stats would be maintained separate from the user client and could be fixed by rolling out "behind the scenes" changes, which would roll in either immediately or at the next server reset.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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If that were truly strictly the only thing changing, they probably could do that. I think what's happening a lot of times is that there's rarely such an isolated change rolled out. I suspect that things may get pushed in the patch pipeline that include changes that do require the server and client to change in lockstep.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I do have to say, btw, that one thing that surprises me about the game is the requirement that they do a whole new build to change enemy stats. I don't know if that's standard of graphical MMOs or not, but I always assumed all creature stats would be maintained separate from the user client and could be fixed by rolling out "behind the scenes" changes, which would roll in either immediately or at the next server reset.
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Now it's entirely possible that there are things about critter changes that really do require them to update both sides at once. Someone who had looked at the game files might be able to tell us more about unconfirmed reports that critter powers have info in the client files, for example. But whether info like that truly needs to be in step with the server still probably wouldn't be clear without dev comment.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That's not true. Some of us remember "exploits" going back to the dawn of the game that they had to change the game to fix. Purple patch, anyone?|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
And to answer the title question; as long as the AE exists.
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The answer is that the "exploits" will continue as long as the devs keep deciding after the fact that X is no longer a valid playstyle. It doesn't have to involve AE at all. It could be herding an entire outdoor map with one tank and then having a couple of blasters set off their nukes. Or it could be running a freakshow map over and over. Or it could be stuffing bad guys in a dumpster. Winterlords, anyone? All those things were eventually considered "exploits" and the game was fixed to stop it from happening - but in none of those cases did anyone lose levels or characters over it.
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Originally Posted by Major_Control
But the devs ARE responsible if sloppy coding or system design allowed these exploits to exist - and not just the once. And the company IS responsible if those exploits once identified are not removed quickly. If you run a 24/7 365 day service then you need the resources in place at all times to deal with urgent issues.
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I also REALLY WISH people would stop drawing the line where "farming" and "exploiting" and "powerleveling" are the same thing. They're not.
Exploiting is breaking a rule that is in place, hacking, or otherwise deliberately breaking the game for your own quick profit.
Farming is simply doing a map or set of maps that give good physical rewards quickly for less risk than another map but NOT breaking the game to do that. Farming is for drops, influence and/or tickets.
PLing is just running something in a way that levels up a character quickly. XP is the goal, and it may or may not involve an exploit.
But at the base, these things are not always equivalent and I wish people would stop tying them together as if they are. Exploiting is against the rules - the rest is not.
I have a couple of farm missions in AE. They don't involve any exploit (unless the devs change their mind at some point and decide they are, I guess) it's simply a map full of mobs and ambushes that my farming character finds easy to defeat. I run it til my tickets max and reset. I use the tickets and influence to make IOs for my stableful of characters. I have on occasion brought my gaming partner or husband's lowbies along to move them over a hump to SOs or Stamina or side-switching or whatever. Do the purity police think that I need to be moved out of the game as well?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Just want to restate that I am NOT in favour of banning people or taking away their stuff. This is a BAD way to do things, one which the developers ought to have been burned by last time. It will do little to "discipline" people, were discipline even relevant in the context, and it will just make the Architect even more useless for its intended purpose than it already is, and that's saying something.
I don't feel people should be punished. If anything, I feel a "good game" is in order. Good job, guys. You found the exploit, you exploited it, you grabbed your earnings. Party's over now. Move along. Go back to the game, and we'll try to plug these things up faster in the future. I tend to adopt a "no harm no foul" policy with these things. Yes, an exploit is harmful while it's actually active, but the solution is not to punish people but to fix it. No, the developers can't predict every exploit which might happen, but they should still close them down as they come up. Nobody has to lose and nobody has to leave angry. Truth be told, I have nothing but sympathy for the people who got levels off these bugs. So long as the exploiters did so with the full knowledge that it wouldn't last forever, I bear no ill feelings towards the guys and gals. Let 'em keep their stuff, now that they already have it, so long as they aren't big babies about a clear exploit being closed up. *edit* I.e. if you got "toons" deleted, I would moan about it |
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Well, only if you define usually expensive rare salvage and usually *very* expensive set IO recipes as "squat".|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Want a very practical example of how people powerlevelling are hurting ME? The prices at Wentworts' are absurd. Yes, they mean I can sell high, but they also mean I can't buy squat.
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I agree that gamers are more than happy to ruin their own fun if you let them, but folk REALLY need to stop using the market's name in vain on this topic.
here's a cheat sheet:
- GENERALLY MOAR EXPENSIVE
- *common salvage
- *uncommon salvage
- *crafted generic IOs
- *purples
- GENERALLY LESS EXPENSIVE
- *set IO recipes
- *rare salvage
And the usual market caveats apply for several categories: patience can still score you cheap common and uncommon salvage and crafted generics.
My guy chasing field crafter has been making BANK off this whole thing- I place salvage bids overnight, crank out a ton of generics the next day and they all sell like hotcakes for ridiculous prices.
My inf grinders are also going to realize a ridiculously massive profit once they turn off the spigot- I have bins full of really good IOs that I bought for pocket change that are going to bring in genuinely grotesque profits.
Any widespread change in player behavior will upset the "balance" of the market. And all of these disruptions bring just as many opportunities for massive profits as they do opportunities to spend yourself bankrupt.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
My grandmother used to say that no matter how much you feed a cat, it will always want more and eat more, until it becomes sick and throws up. This, more than any other analogy, is what I feel applies to the situation here. If you let players ruin their own fun with broken gains, THEY WILL. They'll jump at the chance and break the game not just for themselves, but for people around them, as well. And when they burn out, we all burn out, and we all complain. Rules exist for a reason. You can't just dump everyone at level 50 with everything unlocked and call it a day, no matter how much "fun" someone out there may have with that particular setup.
Exploits need to be fixed. And if people grumble about it, then that's their problem. I would never support bannings or punishment, but I DO expect exploiters to be fully aware that they are, in fact, exploiting a broken game mechanic. Bless their souls for having their own fun, and I wouldn't try to insult them for it, but it WILL be fixed and closed up. And it's not like they don't know what they're doing.
My stance on this is the following: OK, fine, you had your fun, you grabbed your levels, you took a gigantic dump on the Market, fine. That's coming to an end, and you knew it would. Deal with it.