Discussion: Issue 19 Launch Update
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-11-17 24:10 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Thanks for the update and thanks for your hard work.
It's good to see the company listening to criticism and improving communication with customers. Now work on hitting release dates (or announce dates later than expected and actually hit on some early...). Going by trends, could someone clarify what 'after the thanksgiving holiday' means, are we looking at mid december now?
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Back when PvP mattered it was estimated that as of the current playerbase at its height the PvP community was roughly 15%. Back when there was 160k subscribers 15% meant a paultry 24k PvP'd in some way shape or form. Now that the ballpark figure for subscribers is in the 60k range I'm not far off in saying that 24k would be around 40% of the current playerbase. |
Originally Posted by FitzSimmons
40%!?!?! Are you drunk?
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Hopefully you're not too drunk to understand math.
I'm so glad you guys are emphasizing quality above instant gratification.
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If I have to guess, I would say early December. They are not launching the issue during Thanksgiving week for perfectly sane reasons. It doesn't mean that they're completely off that week though. I was hearing that there are people in the office until 11pm. So I think it's safe to say that they want this issue out ASAP every bit as much as we do.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
It's good to see the company listening to criticism and improving communication with customers. Now work on hitting release dates (or announce dates later than expected and actually hit on some early...). Going by trends, could someone clarify what 'after the thanksgiving holiday' means, are we looking at mid december now?
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If somebody you're arguing with goes off the deep end, don't follow.
Was looking to have it for my Birthday next week! 
ah well...at least it will be less buggy when it hits live. 
Prometheus: ... so what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
Me: From a certain point of view?
Prometheus: You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on your point of view.
Me: You're right about that. Power Blast is very pretty from a certain point of view. But that point of view is not head-on. <Kaboom> - Arcanaville.
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Oy vey. Still supplying the facepalm/headdesk moments, eh?|
Originally Posted by Championess
It's too bad I'm not in charge! This game wouldn't be struggling for subscribers right now forcing the tasteless tactics of pulling the free toy out of the happy meal and reselling it to those who love to get those toys out of their happy meals (Party Pack).
Someone with a level 50 kheldian has to have another level 50 toon unless all of a sudden now that they unlock at 20 for the past 2 months there has been a mass influx of people who never played the game powered their way all the way up to 50. And if that other toon is a dom, guess what, they can just run 4 days of side-switching, go villain and have at it with their now unbugged toon until the fixes came. And yes LOLpvp indeed, the community that they had before they hacked its limbs off and left it for dead the last 2 years would now equal about 40% of the now current playerbase. Before you quote the yellow and red dots for population, why is their financials so bad for 3Q, they JUST released a new "large" portion of the game to buy, the previous time they did that was with CoV and there's a stark contrast of the value added between 3Q 2010 and 2Q 2005. The servers back in 2005 never got as high visually as it does now, the playerbase has shrunk since then and the new graphics load of Praetoria plays hell with the server perception. Vote for me as Head of State for Paragon and I promise you shall never have to pay for a happy meal toy again! *Message approved by the community for better PvP and overall gameplay* |
Okay, the first reason it's good that you're not in charge is that you know less than nothing about how the game systems work. i mean that literally. If you had the slightest idea how the game worked you wouldn't make so many statements that are actively wrong. Yes, i understand that in advertising detailed knowledge of the products being advertised is not required, and might even be a liability, but when you're running a company that's actually producing a product like a game it's really rather essential to know something about it. Err, something true.
First off, graphics have nearly nothing to do with server load. Graphics are all handled at the client end. Now i don't disagree that GR might have increased the amount of load each player puts on the server, but the graphics had nothing to do with it.
Also, just to reiterate it yet again just in case*, the queue system does not work by adding invisible characters to each server. It really doesn't. Really, really.
Have you not read the recent thread about CoH's recent financials, or did you simply understand it as well as the other game aspects you've weighed in on in the past? Based on your post i would guess it's a yes to at least one of the two.
Seriously**, i think you're Wrongbot disguised as a human being deliberately misinterpreting and misrepresenting things as part of some nefarious plot that will ultimately be executed incorrectly. Dr. Wrong is nearly as insidious as Nemesis in that regard.
*i suppose i should be grateful to you for keeping my expectations about some things low; especially since the announcement that this thread was created to discuss has raised them a bit in regards to the Devs. Kudos to them for not rushing it out without fixing it.
**Not actually serious at all.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I'm glad we finally got an official statement on the issue.
Thanks for that.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Oy vey. Still supplying the facepalm/headdesk moments, eh?
Okay, the first reason it's good that you're not in charge is that you know less than nothing about how the game systems work. i mean that literally. If you had the slightest idea how the game worked you wouldn't make so many statements that are actively wrong. Yes, i understand that in advertising detailed knowledge of the products being advertised is not required, and might even be a liability, but when you're running a company that's actually producing a product like a game it's really rather essential to know something about it. Err, something true. First off, graphics have less than nothing to do with server load. Graphics are all handled at the client end. Now i don't disagree that GR might have increased the amount of load each player puts on the server, but the graphics had nothing to do with it. Also, just to reiterate it yet again just in case*, the queue system does not work by adding invisible characters to each server. It really doesn't. Really, really. Have you not read the recent thread about CoH's recent financials, or did you simply understand it as well as the other game aspects you've weighed in on in the past? Based on your post i would guess it's a yes to at least one of the two. Seriously**, i think you're Wrongbot disguised as a human being deliberately misinterpreting and misrepresenting things as part of some nefarious plot that will ultimately be executed incorrectly. Dr. Wrong is nearly as insidious as Nemesis in that regard. *i suppose i should be grateful to you for keeping my expectations about some things low; especially since the announcement that this thread was created to discuss has raised them a bit in regards to the Devs. Kudos to them for not rushing it out without fixing it. **Not actually serious at all. |
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
No but compared to CoV which more than doubled sales from the previous quarter from 6412 to 15706 million KWN. It sort of sicks out on the graph.
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It's pretty telling that 2 quarters worth of pre-sales, party packs, subscriptions and all of the other purchasable content doesn't get them higher on the sales chart than a year previous when it was mostly just subscriptions with a booster pack sprinkled in here and there or even before there was even booster packs.
Thank you come again!
It's funny how when someone has an opinion in here, there is no common ground. It's either "you're right" or "you're wrong, do it this way instead".
I personally understand why many players are going to be upset with new potential release date, if "After thanksgiving" can be called that.
I also understand why some players are very pleased knowing there will be more time to fix major bugs before hitting live, even though i personally don't have a Dom or Kheldian toon I play regularly.
There is sufficient evidence for both sides to prove that this is, indeed, a mild crap cluster whether it had gotten delayed or not.
Am I disappointed? Sure. Do I understand the delay? Certainly. Will everyone be happy with one decision or the other? Absolutely not.
Dec 7th?
*Raises an eyebrow*
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Now that's funny! Trying to bring up real politics?|
Originally Posted by Championess
I don't need your vote, you can stick with Palin she identifies with trash.
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If you cannot see that putting out a patch they know is broken is a bad thing, I am certainly glad we never hired you at the software company where I work.
As for your doom and gloom over the financials and your laughable attempts to somehow promote PvP as the possible savior, it simply shows how little you really know of the demographic this game attracts.
So, I am really glad you have nothing to do with the production of City, I would not ever want you to touch it in any way, shape or form and frankly, if you are SO much better at running and MMO, please, let us all know when yours goes into open beta.
Again, Thank you Paragon Studios for a fine product!
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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You would of made a great Enron executive |
Originally Posted by Championess
Showstopper bug HAS to be more than what it is with doms and khelds, there's ways around playing those ATs bugged (or playing another AT:Kheld for the time being). They've had quite a long time now to test, re-test, quadruple-test. The problem is that while they putz around more and more people have nothing eventful to do so they go somewhere else. There has to be a point where they start giving their playerbase a meaningful amount of stuff to do, with whatever level you're at, not just 1-20; that time has come and gone.
Contrary to popular belief, less people playing means the costs are forwarded onto you, emotes now only for sale when before you got a TON of new stuff with the "expansion" you bought. That 40% LoLPvP'ers that would make up the current playerbase now would probably have footed the bill for free emotes and more costumes. So telling them to hurry up and give everyone something to do before they decide to leave is in effect going to get you QoL stuff for free as opposed to now having to pay for them. I'm also not complaining about the two year old bugs, I'm complaining that they have ignored the fact that PvP hardly even exists. I can adapt to buggy gameplay, it's the fact that the timeframe has been so long and they won't do anything about it that is what's the downer. |
So, how about more Halloween or a Double XP weekend to keep us busy over Thanksgiving? Or better yet, a GM invasion of Bat'Zul demons...they kind of look like big roasted turkeys.
MA Arc: School Spirit #89349
Original member of the Dream Team Aeon, Virtue division
"A base here or there is a small price to pay for good mad science."--Arbiter Daos
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Don't forget little details like the fact that we're in the worst recession in what, 40 years? And the fact that the largest playerbase for the game exists in the US, whose dollar value has plummetted in the last few years... |
Originally Posted by Championess
See that steep mountain? That's a lot of people playing and buying the "expansion" product that came with a free month of playtime as well on top of their subscription numbers. Quite high right. Let's look at the next "expansion" sales period starting with the pre-sale period. Q2 and Q3 seems to be a baby slope on your favorite coaster. Numbers don't lie, there's less people playing than what there was a year ago, server load views are clearly changed from days of old.
It's pretty telling that 2 quarters worth of pre-sales, party packs, subscriptions and all of the other purchasable content doesn't get them higher on the sales chart than a year previous when it was mostly just subscriptions with a booster pack sprinkled in here and there or even before there was even booster packs. Thank you come again! |
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
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Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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And Hami looks like a giant jello mold! We could get both dinner and dessert!|
Originally Posted by Great_Cthulhu
So, how about more Halloween or a Double XP weekend to keep us busy over Thanksgiving? Or better yet, a GM invasion of Bat'Zul demons...they kind of look like big roasted turkeys.
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Personally, while I'm a little disappointed in the delay, I'd rather wait for a finished product to come out instead of forcing a portion of the player base to be unable to participate in any of the new content.
Hopefully this will get fixed soon and, once again, thank you for both your hard work and keeping us abreast of the situation.
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Where did I say that PvP was the savior?|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
Now that's funny! Trying to bring up real politics?
If you cannot see that putting out a patch they know is broken is a bad thing, I am certainly glad we never hired you at the software company where I work. As for your doom and gloom over the financials and your laughable attempts to somehow promote PvP as the possible savior, it simply shows how little you really know of the demographic this game attracts. So, I am really glad you have nothing to do with the production of City, I would not ever want you to touch it in any way, shape or form and frankly, if you are SO much better at running and MMO, please, let us all know when yours goes into open beta. Again, Thank you Paragon Studios for a fine product! |
This game has a bunch of subcultures within it, PvP was one decently large enough that was thriving. Before PvP got revamped I was of the mind that subtle changes were necessary, they pushed wholesale sweeping changes, I adapted to the new bugs, many of which are very laughably broken 2 years later. They pushed the bugs through to live without acknowledging fixes coming, that's fine, sooner or later they would have realized things were broken and fixed them if they paid attention to it, but they haven't. They know about their bugs in the i19 and are acknowledging fixes coming, I can handle a bug on my doms for a month if I know that it's being looked into.
My analogy to the way PvP has been treated is relevant to all subcultures within this game. If you're a RPer, this could happen to you, if you like emotes what was once free now costs money, bases are still broken. A known bug and fix coming down the pipe that affects less than the majority I can deal with.
No if I get my own MMO you can't have a job, I have high expectations. When something goes into production for so long about so little compared to what has already been developed in this game it would make me a little bit on edge about what is going on.
The head of the game needs to hold themsleves more accountable than just throwing out vague information for a year and then clearing it up the week before launch. First the information was allowed to linger about the first level of incarnates in GR and then the next 9 in i19 up until posi rebuked that the week before GR came out. Now the first slot that we are supposed to get isn't even the complete slot? It seems we are going backwards with all of this information that is allowed to linger and no authoritative interjection.
But it doesn't really matter anyways, their insight would be clouded and mysterious anyways until they can pull a fast one the week before launch of something new.
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Just because it is reported early on doesn't mean it is a quick fix, then of course comes the question: does the fix break anything else?
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
I really am surprised the Kheldian bug is still there. It's been reported since the start of closed beta...
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Thanks, I guess.....|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
You would of made a great Enron executive
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Considering that the Enron Executives didn't care to hold themselves to a high standard and only focused on money then yeah I could see where that makes no sense in what you are relating me to.
The Enron Executives would be content with saying that they are giving all these cool new features to you (the investor/customer) all the while sitting back not doing any of the accounting tasks asked of them to do or blatantly lie to inspire investor confidence, the vision that they were trying to uphold was false and they needed to have fundamental changes happen in their business to compete, rather than just by smudging ficticious numbers.
So asking them to do work and put it out makes me an Enron Exec eh? Wouldn't that make me an Enron customer that is getting tired of all of their delays, ready to take my business elsewhere?
The fact of the matter is we all pay the same amount to play this game. It would not be fair to release a update when a part of the base could not play what they pay their hard earned money to play. It isn't like the devs are locked up in a room in the back laughing at how they could not release I 19. Btw..they never gave the 16th as a locked down date for release. Some people might be ok with it released with the bugs, but as a player who loves Doms..yes i would be mad as hell if it released and I couldn't play my Doms but they still took my money. So for those who are all upset about this then so sorry..why don't you jump on to test and help us play and give more info to the devs so they can fix the bugs faster?
"Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." Alfred Pennyworth
blah, there goes my moral for the game. a showstoper bug that was reported at the start of beta, prevents the game from launching before a big holiday.
i'll just come back when I20 is live.
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That math is faulty.You base your results on the ideal that of the 100k that left none of them would be pvp players...Which is just unrealistic..If we say the pvp stayed at roughly 15 % then the pvp base would now be 9000 people...that is not 40% of player base.
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Originally Posted by Championess
Back when PvP mattered it was estimated that as of the current playerbase at its height the PvP community was roughly 15%. Back when there was 160k subscribers 15% meant a paultry 24k PvP'd in some way shape or form. Now that the ballpark figure for subscribers is in the 60k range I'm not far off in saying that 24k would be around 40% of the current playerbase.
Hopefully you're not too drunk to understand math. |
"Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." Alfred Pennyworth
Hiya, WW!
I hope you all can relax and have a fun holiday.
I'm happy playing the game we have right now, so... No big deal!
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Hrm...|
Originally Posted by Championess
Since we're in the mood for postponing things, can you guys please postpone my re-bill by 15 days? I only re-subbed just this past weekend in hopes that all of the stuff I was looking forward to when I purchased GR was on the time-table for this week. Now you say that you have to postpone what I have been looking forward to since I bought GR some more? Fair enough, postpone my re-bill while your at it to account for the 15 days that I won't be playing this in the meantime.
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| I only re-subbed just this past weekend in hopes that all of the stuff I was looking forward to when I purchased GR was on the time-table for this week. |
The cashier just smiles and laughs whenever I mention getting a refund for the foul up!!
There was no promised due date of this Issue.
They casually confessed that they wanted to get it done and out before the holiday break.
People who were at the Meet and Greet let us know that they said they were hoping for that, but if not, it would wait until afterward...
Sorry that you paid for something 15 days ago and are now unhappy with how things are playing out.
Pretty sure there is an abundance of content and fun to be had for $15 in this game though.
Hopefully you can manage to find it and have some fun.
Instead of lashing out or anything, I am going to attempt to say this kindly... The way that you present your opinions really makes you seem rather obnoxious and a bit oblivious.
Besides the fact that ruining some ATs is never acceptable for a live publish (good grief, why does that need to be stated at all, never mind so many times in the past few days?), when a bug has not been figured out/solved, it may be a much bigger problem than the small Test Server results indicate.
To release such a thing on to the live servers (AND right before a holiday break) would be... obnoxiously oblivious.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Wow, when does your MMO launch? With all these great insight I bet it's gonna be awesome.
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Originally Posted by Championess
Where did I say that PvP was the savior?
This game has a bunch of subcultures within it, PvP was one decently large enough that was thriving. Before PvP got revamped I was of the mind that subtle changes were necessary, they pushed wholesale sweeping changes, I adapted to the new bugs, many of which are very laughably broken 2 years later. They pushed the bugs through to live without acknowledging fixes coming, that's fine, sooner or later they would have realized things were broken and fixed them if they paid attention to it, but they haven't. They know about their bugs in the i19 and are acknowledging fixes coming, I can handle a bug on my doms for a month if I know that it's being looked into. My analogy to the way PvP has been treated is relevant to all subcultures within this game. If you're a RPer, this could happen to you, if you like emotes what was once free now costs money, bases are still broken. A known bug and fix coming down the pipe that affects less than the majority I can deal with. No if I get my own MMO you can't have a job, I have high expectations. When something goes into production for so long about so little compared to what has already been developed in this game it would make me a little bit on edge about what is going on. The head of the game needs to hold themsleves more accountable than just throwing out vague information for a year and then clearing it up the week before launch. First the information was allowed to linger about the first level of incarnates in GR and then the next 9 in i19 up until posi rebuked that the week before GR came out. Now the first slot that we are supposed to get isn't even the complete slot? It seems we are going backwards with all of this information that is allowed to linger and no authoritative interjection. But it doesn't really matter anyways, their insight would be clouded and mysterious anyways until they can pull a fast one the week before launch of something new. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.