I hate what super boosters have done to the community
By
Angelxman81,
Posted on: 2010-10-15 05:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
The vet powers strike me as making a MUCH bigger difference than the booster pack powers. Of course, I say this because I have the booster packs and not the vet powers.
But I see people with their decent ranged attacks, and their melee cones, at first level, and I think "gosh, that sure looks like it's a game-changing effect".
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Those attacks suck like half your blue bar. They're great to have at first level, but you stay first level for what, five minutes? Tops? |
Originally Posted by seebs
The vet powers strike me as making a MUCH bigger difference than the booster pack powers. Of course, I say this because I have the booster packs and not the vet powers.
But I see people with their decent ranged attacks, and their melee cones, at first level, and I think "gosh, that sure looks like it's a game-changing effect". |
I use those as soon as I make a new character, but the moment I have the option of three real attacks, I chuck them off. I keep one of the ranged attacks (Blackwand or Nem Staff, depending on if my character is magic or tech) for runners and otherwise I much prefer a much more end-efficient chain of the same powers available to everyone using that AT.
I've seen people still using them occasionally for quite some time -- especially, as you note, the ranged attacks on melee archetypes.
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Oh absolutely! But the point is that's pretty much what the vet powers are - occasional but useful on those occasions. |
Originally Posted by seebs
I've seen people still using them occasionally for quite some time -- especially, as you note, the ranged attacks on melee archetypes.
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I've got (basically) all the boosters and (basically) all the vet powers, and I agree.|
Originally Posted by seebs
The vet powers strike me as making a MUCH bigger difference than the booster pack powers. Of course, I say this because I have the booster packs and not the vet powers.
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I have *all* my vet powers on my tray, and use most of them all the time.
They are especially excellent at the lower levels. Run on a team of lowbies most of who have the vet powers and one without, the difference is striking. The attacks also make soloing 'support classes' much, much less tedious in the early going.
Booster powers, I have Ninja Run on most of my lowbies, I have the Mutation one for everybody, and that's about it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I only managed to solo Noble Savage at level 19 with my controller by keeping my sapping aura running and alternating fists and nemesis. My pre-SO troller attacks were vastly inferior to a good vet power. They are still the best attack powers (in terms of pure damage) my lev 50 masterminds have.
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Originally Posted by Feycat
Those attacks suck like half your blue bar. They're great to have at first level, but you stay first level for what, five minutes? Tops?
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They remain excellent attacks for ATs with low damage mods even at level 50. Primarily this means Defenders. Yes, the vet attack DPE is not good, but when they do damage a Scrapper or Blaster looks at as "eh, that's OK", that's pretty nice to be able to whip out at that level on any AT.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Those attacks suck like half your blue bar. They're great to have at first level, but you stay first level for what, five minutes? Tops?
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And I say this as someone who solos his Defenders on comparatively high difficulty settings as a matter of course, so it's not like I'm especially down on their damage dealing. I just recognize that the vet attacks are unusually powerful in their hands because they don't observe AT mods.
Edit: That said, I want to be clear I in no way consider them unbalancing. As Obitus says, what they can do for your character pales in light of things like IOs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This also makes them quite good for my Perma-Rage SS Tanker during the Rage damage crash.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
they don't observe [..] mods.
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Nitpicky of me, but that's them not observing buffs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Was there that much complaining over EQ expansions?|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I would too. But you know that the whiner brigade would be whining about those instead of the boosters. I have found there is no end to their ability to find something to complain about even if they have to make up things that have not happened but might.
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I vaguely remember my EQ days and time on the forums there. I think people complained more about the content of expansions rather than not wanting to pay for expansions at all.
From what little I have seen of the EQ2 forums, I think it's probably similar. I know Blackarachnia plays EQ2 so he'd probably be able to give a better idea.
Still...I think the most complaining I have seen on the EQ forums was when they upgraded the graphics engine to support higher end video cards and the base system requirements went up. Folks didn't want to shell out for new graphics cards.
I think this game could have used a couple more expansions between COV and GR, personally.
Personally, Id rather the effort had gone into expansions instead of booster packs.
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EQ didn't have the same tradition of giving out free content that CoH does. There were a couple free zones in EQ but 99% of the content was bought and paid for. On the other hand, they got into "hot zones" where select zones would give extra experience and special loot. At least once, they changed the zones but didn't have new loot to go with it (they recycled the old loot) and some folks were all upset about it. I suppose once you get used to something you come to expect it and being told "They don't have to do anything!" never really makes anyone feel better about their disappointment.
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Originally Posted by Slashman
Was there that much complaining over EQ expansions?
I vaguely remember my EQ days and time on the forums there. I think people complained more about the content of expansions rather than not wanting to pay for expansions at all. |
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you can if you wish, but lets be realists here, both expansions to coh were massive amounts of resources tied up that lead to smaller free issues and had very long development cycles, they all carried the expectation of something game changing and required significant risk if not well recieved. boosters are small, likely relatively easy to produce packs of additional art assets. probably not trivial, but taking up a lot less resources than an expansion by a large margin. they are fast,targeted content packs at relatively low costs that most likely can be worked on while allowing the majority of the team to still work on issue content, and are priced low enough that they are likely less risky. I like expansions but i know that each time one is being worked on, we are going to see smaller(though often still impressive for what they are) issues and a sort of rubberbanding of content, so ya know, maybe the small lead in and quick deployment is better in my opinion than a long lead in and tying up of resources.|
Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
Personally, Id rather the effort had gone into expansions instead of booster packs.
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Expansions are great, but lets not confuse major shifts with smaller releases.
I've been thinking about something another MMO I've been playing has just started doing.
In addition to issues like we get here they have just started releasing storyarcs spaced out over a few weeks. What happens is they release the first mission on a Saturday and then each following week they release the next installment in the story arc. At the end of the story arc (and before the release of the next story arc) they give a special reward to everyone that completes the story arc in that time frame. The reward is the same for everyone.
This has generated a lot of interest from the playerbase and their servers are hopping each Saturday with people eager to do the next installment, and they spend the week between and the time before the next story arc running their alts thru the missions to get the reward.
I think something like that here could do a lot to keep people interested between the release of new issues.
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I'd totally buy that booster pack. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I've been thinking about something another MMO I've been playing has just started doing.
In addition to issues like we get here they have just started releasing storyarcs spaced out over a few weeks. What happens is they release the first mission on a Saturday and then each following week they release the next installment in the story arc. At the end of the story arc (and before the release of the next story arc) they give a special reward to everyone that completes the story arc in that time frame. The reward is the same for everyone. This has generated a lot of interest from the playerbase and their servers are hopping each Saturday with people eager to do the next installment, and they spend the week between and the time before the next story arc running their alts thru the missions to get the reward. I think something like that here could do a lot to keep people interested between the release of new issues. |
That would actually be a pretty sweet thing for level 50 characters since they wouldn't have to worry about outleveling it and it would be at least one special "end game" thing.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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No, actually, it's damage modifiers that they ignore. Veteran powers, along with many temporary powers, have a set amount of damage that does not vary from AT to AT. Therefore, they ignore damage modifiers, at the very least. I'm pretty sure they ignore control, heal and so forth modifiers, as well.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Nitpicky of me, but that's them not observing buffs.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I could get behind that. Especially if they alternated the level ranges that the arcs took place in.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think something like that here could do a lot to keep people interested between the release of new issues.
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They do seem to be trying to release new arcs with every issue that aren't directly related to the issue, I'll give them that. But it still means we're 'dry' between issues once we exhaust that content.
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However, to achieve this I would imagine they would remove the arcs from the issues and release them this way. Sure, you get a new mission every saturday, but on the days in between you get none. And you run all your alts through that to get a bonus. Now, you can run the missions on any of your alts at any time and get the same bonus as always.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
I could get behind that. Especially if they alternated the level ranges that the arcs took place in.
They do seem to be trying to release new arcs with every issue that aren't directly related to the issue, I'll give them that. But it still means we're 'dry' between issues once we exhaust that content. |
I think I prefer the way we have it now.
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I.. don't think you're using those terms the same way I am. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
No, actually, it's damage modifiers that they ignore. Veteran powers, along with many temporary powers, have a set amount of damage that does not vary from AT to AT. Therefore, they ignore damage modifiers, at the very least. I'm pretty sure they ignore control, heal and so forth modifiers, as well.
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"Mods" in the context of "AT mods" has a specific meaning. While I probably see what you were going for there, a "buff" is not a "mod" in that context. A "buff" (or any effect) usually obeys (AT) mods. The fact that vet attacks work normally during a rage crash is not a function of the fact that they ignore "mods" in this context. It's because they ignore "(de)buffs".
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Let me put it like that - do veteran attacks always do the same damage for all ATs or do they not?
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I.. don't think you're using those terms the same way I am.
"Mods" in the context of "AT mods" has a specific meaning. While I probably see what you were going for there, a "buff" is not a "mod" in that context. A "buff" (or any effect) usually obeys (AT) mods. The fact that vet attacks work normally during a rage crash is not a function of the fact that they ignore "mods" in this context. It's because they ignore "(de)buffs". |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That's why, when I quoted you, I removed the "AT" part.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
"Mods" in the context of "AT mods" has a specific meaning.
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No that isn't how they do it. They still release story arcs with their regular issues, and once they release the weekies they are permanent additions to the game. The only thing they remove is the special reward for doing the complete story arc before the next one is released. Like how we only get Candy Canes during the winter event, or Costume Salvage during Halloween.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
However, to achieve this I would imagine they would remove the arcs from the issues and release them this way. Sure, you get a new mission every saturday, but on the days in between you get none. And you run all your alts through that to get a bonus. Now, you can run the missions on any of your alts at any time and get the same bonus as always.
I think I prefer the way we have it now. |
How it works is you get a message from a special contact that lets you know there is a special mission he needs your help with. Just like we get here about the Baby New Year, and the DJ Zero's Valentines Day Event. The difference here is that you can't do those mission all year long.
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You mean pay for things already in the game? Yea, I can see that going over well.|
Originally Posted by BenRGamer
I think the next set of Booster Packs should be to get Vet Reward powers early, and to unlock existing sets/accolades early.
Ex: The Cimerora Pack Unlocks the Cimeroan Costume Sets (Costume and weapons/shield customization--including the Nictus Sword), account wide, from the start. And, one of the accolade powers for free from the start. The Vet Reward Pack, Year 1 All the Year 1 Vet Rewards, catches the account up for those years, meaning the next reward would be for 15 months, regardless of the previous amount. The Vet Reward Pack, Year 2 As above, but it wouldn't catch the character up unless they were at Year 2 (when they reach it, they'd go straight to Year 3, meaning, it'd go from the 12 month reward to the 27 month reward) Etc. |
Also, that completely undermines the point of the vet reward system.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Making a couple of extra costume bits and token powers doesn't compare to expansions. If they focussed on more expansions you can bet we'd have less free issues, if any at all, than we have now, simply due to time and resource constraints.
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Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
Personally, Id rather the effort had gone into expansions instead of booster packs.
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
When I played EQ I bought each expansion and enjoyed it. Just as I will do here for boosters that have something I want. All the handwringing in the world by the tremblers won't affect my decisions in the slightest.
With that said, I DO understand the OP's concern about most suggestions.
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