Going Rogue/Issue 18 - Patch notes for build 1850.201009101722.1T
By
Alpha-One,
Posted on: 2010-09-16 14:08 in The Global Training Room Test Server
better
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Tasks
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Bases
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
You forgot the insane regen rate that the AV has. Players have 45 seconds of "damage time" and while he is in the PFF hax he has a good chance to heal half his hit points even if the shields are brought down again quickly. What do you care though, I thought you were in a group that handlily defeated the trial? The trial was never "cake", except for a tiny while in Beta. Most beta testers didn't get to see those 2-3 runs.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
selective reading ftw!
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
the trial itself isn't all that hard, it's just the AV PFF hax that makes it overly difficult, once that gets fixed (don't know why it hasn't yet) it'll be cake again.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
I specifically said "the last two failed attempts" we kept his regen/hp down, but we ultimately got killed by respawns and his PFF Hax, because the other teams couldn't keep up after the initial mob killing, so we couldn't capitalize on it and then he would be back to full by the time everyone got back from a massive wipe. We had tons of debuffs, but lack of AoE damage.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
when you're going to be a *********, get your information right first
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Now...just like everyone else, I don't really get the reasoning of them banning WB nukes and just as much disagree with the decision. Why this change is happening before they fix Rularuu is beyond me, even though Castle confirmed that was a fix in the pipes IIRC.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
*sigh* you posted in the other thread yourself, concerning a reward buff. Maybe I should of said "selective memory" instead, since I was assuming what your little comment towards me was based off of from the previous thread.
Regardless, your snarky little comment towards me was uncalled for. No, I still don't believe the CoP itself is hard. The only thing that even makes it remotely hard is the people who can't stay organized besides a broken AV.
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Sorry, I didn't intend for that to be anything other than a jest. I removed it.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
*sigh* you posted in the other thread yourself, concerning a reward buff. Maybe I should of said "selective memory" instead, since I was assuming what your little comment towards me was based off of from the previous thread.
Regardless, your snarky little comment towards me was uncalled for. |
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
No, I still don't believe the CoP itself is hard. The only thing that even makes it remotely hard is the people who can't stay organized besides a broken AV.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Yes but consider this: If there are in fact like 5 other secret weapons out there then what makes Warburg nukes so much more horrible that they deserved the ban stick but not the others? Following your logic Warburg nukes are just one of many temp power tools for this trial. Either the Devs should ban them all or ban none of them. Baning just "one of several" in this case has no justifiable rationale.
So this "outcry" does serve at least one useful purpose: It demonstrates to the Devs that a policy of piecemeal power restrictions for trials is ultimately flawed and illogical. |
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Originally Posted by Starjammer
QR
If they removed the Warburg option and won't say why -- exploit. |
edit: whoops wrong quote
edit2: fixed
edit3: I'm deeply saddened that a respectful member of our community is one of the people Q.Qing instead of thinking logically why they removed the nuke.
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^This.^
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Also, where is the typo in this sentence:
Primal Forces Mastery/Energy Transfer - Reduced Self Damage from scale 2.75 to Scale 3.0
Is it Reduced? Or is it 3.0?
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Furthermore, the Reveal vet reward power bug still seems to be undressed. There's nothing I like more than wandering into a map, using Reveal, and being rudely kicked from the map server 
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I personally haven't been dropped with a mapserver from using it, but I have had it not work at all when I trigger the power, and the FOW still remains.
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Originally Posted by Obsidius
Furthermore, the Reveal vet reward power bug still seems to be undressed. There's nothing I like more than wandering into a map, using Reveal, and being rudely kicked from the map server
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There is no fix, Castle lied. It's a stealth nerf, just like MM pets charging into melee and ignoring commands not to.
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Originally Posted by Little_Whorn
Really? Still no fix to the MM's nerfed burn missles? When's that serious bug going to be addressed? :/
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The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
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So since Warburg nukes are getting banned, what's next? Temp pets? Corruptors? Vent? Seems like the devs just want to protect the little AV pet they made and make it unbeatable for 95% of the playerbase.
I always wondered how the misles got there in the first place. If we humans can ship missles across dimensions with amazing accuracy, what would we need supers for? Targetting?
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a) it's not a *serious* bug, and it didn't just affect Masterminds. Carnie Seneschals got nerfed too, as did pretty much every other burn patch in the game (demolitionists, thugs Arsonist, Seneschal, Hercules/Zeus titans etc. etc.) the net effect for me at least is that it takes slightly longer to take out minions/lieuts but noticeably longer to take out bosses.|
Originally Posted by Little_Whorn
Really? Still no fix to the MM's nerfed burn missles? When's that serious bug going to be addressed? :/
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b) Robotics has a bigger problem than Incendiary Swarm missiles, in the shape of the lobotomised AI making the damn bots leg it into melee. However, I expect the pet AI to require a SAN roll at -75 to prevent 9d10 SAN loss in programmers who try to read and comprehend it. But it's been broken for months and it's getting annoying, so now GR's out of the door, I hope some effort can go into trying to fix it.
c) He said he was adding it to his list. He said nothing about how long the list was or when he'd get a chance to fix it (or order one of his lackeys to fix it).
d) Even if it's been fixed internally, it may not show up for another patch or two, due to the QA pipeline that patches have to go through before they get published.
e) Removing Nukes from the CoP is a double edged sword to me. One one hand it feels incredibly cheap, doubly so since I'm not aware that Union (my home server) has even managed a successful CoP run yet, let alone one without nukes. On the other hand, I hate getting warburg nukes, due to a pathological loathing of PvP in this game, so it means I don't need to worry about it any more.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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We've had a bloody good few goes at it so far, this does make it all the harder though |
Originally Posted by Canine
Removing Nukes from the CoP is a double edged sword to me. One one hand it feels incredibly cheap, doubly so since I'm not aware that Union (my home server) has even managed a successful CoP run yet, let alone one without nukes. On the other hand, I hate getting warburg nukes, due to a pathological loathing of PvP in this game, so it means I don't need to worry about it any more.
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I don't know why people keep saying this. You only need 3 SG mates. If your server runs Hami raids regularly, you should have plenty of people to pick from for CoP trials.| having to wire together 24 sg mates who live in the same basement and pvp each other all day for the perfect setups... |
Champion runs CoP raids sub 15 mins all the time with PuGs as well as SGs.
Why does it never occur to most folks that if you defeat something that's been deemed "hard" by the developers in such a short time, maybe that's not how it's supposed to work? Teamwork and coordination can get you far, yes, but there's a difference between being efficient and being stupidly fast.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
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More proof that the Devs are turning a blind eye to the wants of the forum goers? Le gasp!
Good thing they are fixing arbitrary things that should be on the back burner...
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I've quoted this once and I'll do it a million times more if needed
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Originally Posted by Starjammer
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If they removed the Warburg option and won't say why -- exploit. |
ok I don't get how this is an exploit. Its a temp power that is a tool given to players to make hard tasks easier(possible?). If it was allowing people to do something unintended for the CoP that should have been taken into consideration when designing the damn trial. Are you banning Nukes from all TFs and trials? will you ban them from hami/MS raids also?
If its something else that's exploity about the nukes on the trial. can you please figure out a fix that doesn't ban them...
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Methinks you carefully chose what to quote and what NOT to...|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
I don't know why people keep saying this. You only need 3 SG mates. If your server runs Hami raids regularly, you should have plenty of people to pick from for CoP trials.
Champion runs CoP raids sub 15 mins all the time with PuGs as well as SGs. Why does it never occur to most folks that if you defeat something that's been deemed "hard" by the developers in such a short time, maybe that's not how it's supposed to work? Teamwork and coordination can get you far, yes, but there's a difference between being efficient and being stupidly fast. |
what I said was that you needed mind boggling levels of co-ordination to do the CoP reliably without nukes, and by that I mean with a success rate similar to completing the ITF.
We know that you only need 3 in the SG, thats not the point. In order to overcome the regen we HAVE to take certain combinations of AT's and powers, now if we said to your main, sorry but 23 people aren't dragging your AT (if you're badger is a toon that doesn't always "fit" with the requirements" through it to get the badge then wouldn't you be a bit annoyed?
Perhaps if the trial was based on keeping the shield down through having a decent strategy for the trial, rather than just having to work out how to overcome the rather stupidly designed amount of regen the AV has, then the point would be mute. But no, we're given a time limit to overcome an opponent that has been made cheaply harder rather than intelligently.
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Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
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I approve o' this patch.
That is all.
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this is what i think, there is nothing exploity about them, and if they were, then wouldnt they just nerf the nukes themselves instead of only disallowing them from 1 small aspect of the game?|
Originally Posted by Xionian
ok I don't get how this is an exploit. Its a temp power that is a tool given to players to make hard tasks easier(possible?). If it was allowing people to do something unintended for the CoP that should have been taken into consideration when designing the damn trial. Are you banning Nukes from all TFs and trials? will you ban them from hami/MS raids also?
If its something else that's exploity about the nukes on the trial. can you please figure out a fix that doesn't ban them... |
as far as i remember, poeple have been using nukes on LRSF, hami raids, STF, and almost anything else poeple wanted to feel stupidly powerful
i usually never bother getting the nukes because its too much work for a 1 use temp power, but i do know they can be extremely helpful at times
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In my experience, you don't need 'mind boggling' levels of co-ordination to do the CoP reliably without nukes. The Storm AV may be more demanding in this department, but not impossible. The other AV is very doable with a PuG group and no nukes and in a decent amount of time.|
Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
what I said was that you needed mind boggling levels of co-ordination to do the CoP reliably without nukes, and by that I mean with a success rate similar to completing the ITF.
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Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
We know that you only need 3 in the SG, thats not the point. In order to overcome the regen we HAVE to take certain combinations of AT's and powers, now if we said to your main, sorry but 23 people aren't dragging your AT (if you're badger is a toon that doesn't always "fit" with the requirements" through it to get the badge then wouldn't you be a bit annoyed?
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Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
Perhaps if the trial was based on keeping the shield down through having a decent strategy for the trial, rather than just having to work out how to overcome the rather stupidly designed amount of regen the AV has, then the point would be mute. But no, we're given a time limit to overcome an opponent that has been made cheaply harder rather than intelligently.
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Again, I'm just speaking from my personal experience, which includes PuG CoPs as well as SG CoPs.
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It seems to me that if I wanted to test out the difficulty of an encounter like this and datamine how the players handled it, I might want to eliminate a huge balance shifter, such as the warburg nukes, especially if I saw them being used enough that it was affecting my ability to judge how much trouble the players may have against the encounter.
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What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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Why ddn't they just make a "Master of Cathedral of Pain" badge instead?
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