Are OCR (and Marketing) missing the marks?

Warning: block of text, mild rant, nostalgia, possible Appeal to Antiquity



Remember back to August 2008 when a mysterious Marketing Survey was sent to random City of Heroes/ Villain players asking them what they wanted for the future of the game? I do, although I did't receive the survey personally, I only read about it here on the forums and on related gaming sites. And almost all of it has come to pass, and some of it may still be waiting in the wings.

The reason I bring this up is because, for the past several months, there hasn't been a lot of communications from the Community Relations staff. Good communications implies bidirectional interchanges. Recently, we've been recieveing a lot of announcements about contests, some forum-run contests that ended a month ago, and general game announcements and patch notes... but nothing in the way of communicating with the community on a more casual level.

You might get told about how to buy or win the latest booster pack or costume power. You might get told about the latest GR contest from a third party, or get the latest patch notes. You might get told by a moderator why your thread was closed or your post was deleted (if you're lucky). But OCR, as of late, hasn't been really doing much asking as to what player want, nor have they been responding to player concerns over certain bugs, problems, booster packs, etc.

What happened to casual community queries and banter? Where have the polls and surveys gone? Looking back on the "Community Digest", there's not a lot of replies to any particular player-created threads... just a litany of one announcement after another, or clarification of an announcement, or clarification of some contest rules. No communications, just mostly, for lack of better words, mouthpiece talk.

Lately, it seems as if developers themselves (Noble Savage, for instance) are the only people communicating with the community - not necessarily a bad thing (we love it when devs post), but by appearances, it seems like OCR could be doing something similar to increase the level of communication between the developers and community.

The impression I've gotten over the past few months is that it seems as though OCR has gone from a casual, friendly relationship with the community to one that's a bit more cold as impersonal.

Understandably, OCR isn't an easy role, especially following in the footsteps of people like CuppaJo, Cricket, Lighthouse, Ex Libris, Nivienne, Bridger, Kerensky and Ghost Raptor. That's not to put down the current OCR staff, but most of those people were community powerhouses... and big shoes to fill.

And understandably, OCR has been busy lately. Even without HeroCon this year, between SDCC, the launch of GR, and PAX, all within the matter of a few months, things are undoubtedly busy for Paragon Studios with all the press junkets and Meet & Greets. And now add to that the beta testing of Issue 19 and 20, and one more event to come, not to mention in-game events.

Even so, that's not a reason to post more on the forums, to remark about concerns players may have over upcoming booster packs, persistent bugs, game feedback, and a gamut of other player issues. Even if you are reading and making note, saying something as "We're looking into it" would be better than the silence that has greeted even the official "feedback" threads as of late.

Some of the more recent examples and pet peeves include:

• The Party Pack - The large outcry on the official discussion thread (and several other threads) goes a long way towards displaying the less-than-emphatic reception of a booster pack that's barely related to the name which it's given. A community poll or pre-launch query thread could have gone a long way towards being proactive about what should be in the pack, instead of reactive (if there's even a reaction at all). It would have been better asking us what we wanted instead of telling us what we should want.
  
  Speaking of which...
  
  
• Polls & Surveys - I think the last time I saw a poll on the forums was... well, I can't remember. Has there been one since Ex Libris put up that poll about what powersets we would like (the one that resulted in Dual Blades, Shields, etc. being added)? Polls and surveys would be a great way to gauge what the payers want in terms of future content (the 2008 survey is a prime example). It might work better than having Noble Savage ask himself, or could at least be used in addition to such a method (it worked in the past, after all).
  
  
• HeroCon - We already know there's not going to be one this year, presumably because of the cost-to-benefit ration, mingled in with the number of planned events this year as well as location (for players not on the west coast). That being said, the amount of press from last year's HeroCon was so abysmal that even people paying attention (like me) had little information from the event. IMPO, it was one of the biggest lost Marketing opportunities, especially on the heels of the Going Rogue announcement that happene only a month or two beforehand.
  
  
• Sub-communities - Subcommunities haven't recieved much attention lately (except for the CHVC community, but that's not the kind of attention any sub-community wants), especially the PvP and Base Building sub-communities. Even just basic communications with these communities would go a long way towards bolstering relationships. Dropping in and saying hello certainly wouldn't hurt, but I'd be prepared for long conversations.
  
  
• Fan Sites / Fan Site Kit - I don't think the Fan Site list has been updated since before CoV launched. Some of the links are just dead; many of the pages are just out of date, no longer being maintained, etc. This is a problem that's existed since Lighthouse's day, so it's certainly not entirely the fault of the current OCR team, but one that should be addressed. Either maintain the Fan Site portal, or take it down entirely (because it's an eyesore in its current state).
  
  And please update the Fan Site Kit even if you get rid of the Fan Site portal (it hasn't been updated since Ex Libris was a redname). People still want to make sites for their SGs, and updating the kits would be a boon towards those goals.
  
  
• 3D Sound Issues - Direct Sound 3D was removed for Win Vista and Win 7 during Issue 18, but AFAIK, never mentioned in the official patch notes. In fact, the only way someone would know about it (before their 3D sound mysteriously stopped working post I18) is if they were in the closed beta. Ironically, when I18 went live, the only documentation was in Zombie Man's Guide to Issue 18 (also ironically, Support tried to tell me the guide was the patch notes for I18 to explain that the change had been officially documented). Not letting players know about this change in the official patch notes was a disservice to the community.

I think each of our lead community people has had a unique style and preferences. Some people will like some approaches better than others.

I find Ocho to be a very straight shooter with a good sense of humor, but he is very careful with his words -- he never overstates and always tows the company line. I have no problem with that. In fact, I prefer that to Black Pebble's market-speak. Avatea is a sweetheart that has the unenviable job of having to translate all official notifications into multiple languages and be the main European and Oceanic contact.

David/Noble Savage has a very easy going style and he has been very prolific lately. I'd rather have the discussions straight with the devs than filtered through the community rep, whoever that may be.

I do miss BaBs posts. He has certainly cut down on his postings. He is very funny and unfiltered but too many people don't get his humor or just want to play word games.

Castle is a quick wit and a deep thinker that is into all sorts of nerd culture -- games, sci-fi authors, movies, you-name-it. But he also has a temper that I think he strains to control at times when certain posters get unnecessarily rude.

But all in all, I don't find that we are getting less communication overall. Perhaps less from OCR than in the past but that doesn't bother me so long as there is an active, ongoing dialogue between the players and its creators.

<nitpick>Toes the line. Not tows. Toes. (Sorry, that just drives me up the wall.) "Tows" the line would be dragging it behind you. Toe the Line means just that - stand directly at, not over, not behind, a specific line. I believe the reference *tends* to be military, boot-camp-ish, though I've seen similar things at school - everyone line up, toe the line and pay attention to what you're being told.

(This isn't "pick on Bionic Flea," either. I see this constantly. It, along with "could care less," "for all intensive purposes" and a few others just bug me.)
</nitpick>

As far as lack of communication? They've been a touch busy with GR, and I20 sounds like it's big, so I wouldn't really expect as much chattiness as we've gotten used to for a while.

That said, yes, some feedback on things like the reaction to the party pack would be good. And waaaaaaaaay back when, we were supposedly getting "section reps" or "AT reps." I think we got one, perhaps two, for a week or so.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Like everything in life, it's all relative.

This game sets itself apart from other MMOs by having an incredibly interactive, responsive Dev team (compared to other games).

Could it be *more* interactive & responsive? I suppose so, if all they had to do all day was chat with us and brainstorm ways to bring all our requests into the game.

But they do have other responsibilities. Even the Ocho has far more threads to police than those you or I or anyone else frequents on a regular basis (c'mon who really spends time in ALL the forums on these boards?).

Me, I'm a glass-half-full type, and I'm really just in awe of how much the Devs *do* listen, and respond to player concerns.

Actually, I think folks like me that make it very hard for the Devs to effectively and directly communicate. We get defensive, suspicious to the point of becoming accusatory and down right angry at times with the way decisions are made or the way certain information is (and is not) communicated.

Some days I have my regrets about sharing my opinions openly; other days I know that regardless of good or bad, as long as I remain objective, they'll listen (but not always comment). I don't always remain objective though - and for people who take this game passionately, sometimes its really hard to remain objective. But I do realize that I (among others) haven't made it easy for them to talk openly, and quite frankly some days I really do have the wrong end of the stick when it comes to *why* changes are being made. In those instances, its best that I step back from the forum, catch my breath, and check back in later once i've cooled down a bit. It doesn't always work but I try.

Right now, I also think its best for everyone if the Devs/OCRS *don't* comment directly - but rather, let Going Rogue sell itself. Perfect time to catch a breath, relax, and burn some vacation hours. Eventually the Devs will come back and comment. OCR? Not so sure but they're always welcome to be a lot more directly involved with the community. I think we were all definitely spoiled by Ex Libris and Cuppa always trying to keep us informed and acknowledging what was happening with certain events/inquiries on a regular basis. They didn't have to do that - but it was sure nice that they did.

Castle did ask us what powers we would like alternate animations for, that is a query, perhaps not a poll though.

I do miss BABs. I think most of the community does. I really hope Castle never decides that silence is better.

I guess like all things we just want more. I do wish that someone would respond in the official discussion thread. The party pack thread really needed someone to step in and comment, and it is kinda sad no one ever did.

Well, I think the way GR is running staright onto I19 and I120, which sound also sound like they're going have some overlapping test time, means that the devs are super busy right now.

Thanks, I appreciate all the candid, civil feedback. Sometimes when I put stuff like this out, I'm afraid I'm just going to get trolled to death, but what I'm really looking for are some different PoVs and perspective.

What got me thinking about this, initially, was the debacle in regards to the CHVC forums the week or so before GR launched. Ocho gave some feedback, and some concessions were made, but in the end, it still ended up creating a lot of community resentment. I'll more than admit that the whole mess left a sour taste in my mouth.

Combined with the latest debacle re: the Party Pack with no OCR feedback on that front at all (and finding out while I was typing up the OP about the in-game event that leans towards no changes to the pack before it launches), and that sour taste came back up.

At least with the CHCV debate, Ocho actually replied and did make some concessions, even if some of the sticking points ended up being "tough luck" choices. With the Party Pack feedback, we got silence from OCR. Even a response like "We hear you but aren't going to make any changes for this Booster" would have been better than nothing.

I guess that every rep has his / her own style, but I dunno. Perhaps I've just been high on the hog with reps in the past. I certainly don't believe OCR is being "lazy"; on the contrary, they're probably busy as hell. But even when she was uber busy, Ex would drop a line or two when she could.

Again, thanks for the constructive comments all, I appreciate all the PoVs.

Sorry to perpetuate the threadjack, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill I believe the reference *tends* to be military, boot-camp-ish, though I've seen similar things at school - everyone line up, toe the line and pay attention to what you're being told.

I always thought it was a circus reference, in particular to the acrobats who literally keep their toes, and nothing else, on the line (tightrope). Doing anything else causes them to fall.

I think we are really lucky to have some Devs who post, as we don't get much at all from the community managers any longer.

Actually I expected them to post less (and not surprised) with the pace they have been keeping since GR.

I also don't think hearing from OCR about the Party Pack would have been relevant or important. Hearing from Marketing (especially now that one of them has a RED NAME) would have made more sense.

To be honest with you I'd rather have OCR post when they have something to say than just step in to shoot the breeze.

I'm also NOT surprised that BaBs posts less. People used to twist everything he said (and joked about) into a pretzel.

There is a cycle to their posting. When things are very quiet on their end it's usually because they are about to publish a new issue or major new tech either on live or test.

Once they publish (or a few days before), there is a lot of chatter back and forth talking about the new stuff, explaining things, and even goofing off in off-topic threads. Then it tapers off indicating it's time for them to grind those hours away making new stuff again.

We are currently in the tapering phase as I19 winds its way to test.

I have also been noticing an increase in information being released at conventions or to trade magazines first. I was initially irked that they would chose those venues (where I am not) versus this one (where I and their other paying customers are). But this community is so awesome and on top of things that the forum has links to the articles, twitter feeds, and youtube links seconds after the words leave their mouth.

I have only made brief visits to other game forums, but from everything I have seen and heard, this is probably the best forum around for both community and interaction with the game-makers.

Come to think of it, you know who hasn't posted in a geological era? Sexy Jay. Obviously not OCR related, but still, that guy has only posted once since we migrated to the new forums over a year ago. Heck, it's been so long I can't even remember his forum handle any more. I miss Jay

I actually have to say I agree with Obsidius on this.

When I first joined the forums back in 'o7, there was a definite sense that certain community reps were more involved with the community. For example, it was commonly understood that Ex Libris "carried the flag" for the PvP and, to some extent, the Base Builder's communities.

There used to be more of a sense that our community reps were more interactive, keeping a finger on the pulse of the community. If the community voiced a concern, you could almost count on a community rep stepping in to say they'd bring it up to so-in-so and keep us posted... and they would follow through on it.

Perhaps it is simply a matter of perception, but it really does feel like the current OCR team is keeping a certain distance, perhaps in the name of impartiality, or something, who knows. In any case, to me, the feel is definitely "cooler" than what it used to be.

.

I'm not really one to point fingers and throw blame around, but it definitely seems that whoever pitched the idea for the party pack is a bit out of touch with the community.

What's an ORC, by the way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

ORC= Overrated Rikti Cury

and who got this survey? i dont remember ever doing any survey since ive been here.