Are OCR (and Marketing) missing the marks?
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2010-09-08 17:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
CoX sales constituted 1/3 of their north america sales in 2009. It's less than in 2008 but that's because of AION. Still, seems like a pretty big chunk of change to give up on.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Have they just decided to put us on the backburner while gearing up for the next big project?
Have they thrown in the towel but don't want to scare us away? |
I have no idea what their new marketing strategy is, but "thrown in the towel" seems unlikely at the moment. Silence can be harmful when prolonged, but the term plausible deniability comes to mind. Maybe there are things in flux and don't want to say anything concrete till it settles down internally.
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That seems reasonable, given the "something big" coming in i20 and the way it's been blown out of proportion speculation-wise |
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
CoX sales constituted 1/3 of their north america sales in 2009. It's less than in 2008 but that's because of AION. Still, seems like a pretty big chunk of change to give up on.
I have no idea what their new marketing strategy is, but "thrown in the towel" seems unlikely at the moment. Silence can be harmful when prolonged, but the term plausible deniability comes to mind. Maybe there are things in flux and don't want to say anything concrete till it settles down internally. |
However, the prolonged silence and inattention to the forums is really hurting them with their long-time players, and I believe at this point that most CoX players are vets. That's not the demographic they really want to crap on.
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That's a really good point, the blanket of silence that's fallen on the boards since launch is disturbing. I appreciate many of the Devs have been off doing shows and stuff but there's no effort being put into it. The only community gig I know of was the party to sell the emote pack after realising they'd produced a pony.*|
Originally Posted by Hallowed
* It's staggering to me that, within 2 months of the first paid expansion of this game in years, there is a constant and palatable concern with the future of this game, and the OCR team has done nothing to dissuade them at all. Seriously, where was the last time that happened with an MMO? Look, some of these fears are probably unfounded, some of them are reactionary, some reading too much into small details, however, when they start becoming more and more prevalent, they need to be addressed. The longer they swirl around, the louder thoe voices become, and the more people start listening. At this point, marketing/OCR are doing the game a disservice via their silence, and it's at a time where they should be riding/fanning the optimism of a new expansion, and gearing up to protect this game against the competition that launches in less than 2 months. |
Black Pebble's done a vanishing act and so far as I can tell only 3 senior devs have posted since the launch of GR and only in a handful of instances, and some, such as Television and Manticore seem to have fallen off the face of the earth.
Thelonious Monk
Quote:
Last I heard, Manticore no longer works for NCSoft.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
[...]Manticore seem to have fallen off the face of the earth.
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Is he infiltrating Aracnos again? |
Originally Posted by Cende
Last I heard, Manticore no longer works for NCSoft.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
She's a ninja - by the time you've seen her post, it's already too late.|
Originally Posted by Cende
I mean, who even remembers to mention EMPulse? She's the head of the OCR team, and we all forget about her. The fact that she never posts helps that along.
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She's posted plenty of times, but no one who's seen it happen has ever lived to talk about it.
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Quote:
What would you have them do, go door to door to the hatful of posters harping on the impending dooooom of the game and give them a big hug and a mug of cocoa?|
Originally Posted by Hallowed
* It's staggering to me that, within 2 months of the first paid expansion of this game in years, there is a constant and palatable concern with the future of this game, and the OCR team has done nothing to dissuade them at all.
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Because certainly anything as mundane as posting here on the forums would generate a wave of replies along the lines of "well of COURSE they say things are okay, what else would they say when things are obviously heading for disaster!"
It's like the old loaded question "when did you stop beating your wife?"
The only constructive answer is none at all.
Actions speak louder than PR.
They've got two issues in the pipeline and will doubtless be providing some details at the NY comic con. This should do more to reassure rational players than some kind of forum announcement that no, the company isn't insolvent, yes, they're staying in business and oh PS, an abject apology for the party pack directed at the marginal types who've completely lost their minds because the devs tried to charge them eight bucks for emotes.
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Quote:
When was that?|
Originally Posted by Cende
Last I heard, Manticore no longer works for NCSoft.
|
I know he has only had a "I work for NCSoft, but not for Paragon" hobby interest in the game for a long time, so "real work" takes first place with him, but...
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Well I was hoping to put up screenies of the Posi pt 1 with Avetea we did last night but aparently we all forgot to take them....
Was great fun and she offered to schedule another night for Posi pt 2
But since it's not talking on the forums i guess it's still a lack of interaction to most in this thread...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
What would you have them do, go door to door to the hatful of posters harping on the impending dooooom of the game and give them a big hug and a mug of cocoa?
Because certainly anything as mundane as posting here on the forums would generate a wave of replies along the lines of "well of COURSE they say things are okay, what else would they say when things are obviously heading for disaster!" It's like the old loaded question "when did you stop beating your wife?" The only constructive answer is none at all. Actions speak louder than PR. They've got two issues in the pipeline and will doubtless be providing some details at the NY comic con. This should do more to reassure rational players than some kind of forum announcement that no, the company isn't insolvent, yes, they're staying in business and oh PS, an abject apology for the party pack directed at the marginal types who've completely lost their minds because the devs tried to charge them eight bucks for emotes. |
Rubbish
They could very easily do a forum Q&A thing for example, talking about stuff that couldn't get discussed during development, why they chose the course of action they did, the particular challenges they faced in development, a few interesting anecdotes etc.
Nobody's asking for special treatment, but some treatment would be a very positive thing.
Thelonious Monk
Quote:
You mean like these?|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Rubbish
They could very easily do a forum Q&A thing for example, talking about stuff that couldn't get discussed during development, why they chose the course of action they did, the particular challenges they faced in development, a few interesting anecdotes etc. Nobody's asking for special treatment, but some treatment would be a very positive thing. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=213333
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=229640
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=133915
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=233003
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Pictures of the OCR people playing the game with a small group of people is not the kind of interaction with customers that people on this thread are asking for, and you know it.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
You mean like these?
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Philly, they don't want substance from OCR, just manual-gratification.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Pictures of the OCR people playing the game with a small group of people is not the kind of interaction with customers that people on this thread are asking for, and you know it.
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Especially the ones too lazy to look at the links.
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Quote:
Right they are asking for posts to a small community on the forums instead of actions in the game which is really what CoH is about. Again interaction not just words.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Pictures of the OCR people playing the game with a small group of people is not the kind of interaction with customers that people on this thread are asking for, and you know it.
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Also those links where to the Q&A's that the scarlet suggested they should do but haven't.
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Quote:
You seriously somehow think that interacting with a small team of heroes on a task force translates to them interacting with more people than posting to the forums and answering the serious questions and concerns people have? Really?
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
Right they are asking for posts to a small community on the forums instead of actions in the game which is really what CoH is about. Again interaction not just words.
Also those links where to the Q&A's that the scarlet suggested they should do but haven't. |
This board is srsbzns.
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Quote:
this place still has more direct dev/mod interaction that any other game I've been around. From my POV you're already getting "some".|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Nobody's asking for special treatment, but some treatment would be a very positive thing.
|
I was around for the now-idealized eras of perfect comity and interaction, and what I mainly remember is how each of the mods now being hailed as some Hero of the Forums when viewed through the golden haze of nostalgia was in practice a very polarizing figure who (inevitably?) alienated and pissed off as many people as they made friends with.
What all this boils down to is that the people running the show decided to make a change and now we've got some butthurt types freaking out because they're not getting the hugs they feel entitled to.
If they've narrowed the focus of community interaction down to just promoting the game and keeping us in the loop on upcoming releases (which they've done a good job of from where I sit), great. I'm here for the game, not catching a buzz off rubbing shoulders with higher ups on the forums.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Feycat
You seriously somehow think that interacting with a small team of heroes on a task force translates to them interacting with more people than posting to the forums and answering the serious questions and concerns people have? Really?
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Hmmm there where maybe 100 people in pocket D at the auction and that was just 1 event. If you take the time to read my posts i cited many times they have done server events. There is a CoP running on Liberty next week Ocho is attending. I believe he also plans on attending the Justice Invasion of Protector. There was the freedom PvP league that was visited a few times by Ocho. There is a post in the PvP section where a team in freedom RV had ocho join them for some PvP. I can go o if you need me too. Though if people in this thread actually played the game i think they might see. Also going to the commuinty development hread would show the many interactions thay have.
So just because they didn't answer your "serious" questions (omg the party pack is just emotes wah wah wah) doesn't mean they don't interact with the community.
Again this is their job OPEN YOUR MIND AND MAYBE GUESS THEY CAN'T REPLY. Again if you read any of the posts in this thread you might see PM's where answered. So while we may like a "hey we hear ya" post ocasionally don't get butt hurt when you don't get it. (so ironic that I am saying this) I personally think they are doing alot of things right especially where it's important.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
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Again Philly, why even bother with Feycat? They're complaining that the rednames don't do the very things you show them doing in your four links that Fey quoted - and then complained they don't do!
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I would just like to express my undying love.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
this place still has more direct dev/mod interaction that any other game I've been around. From my POV you're already getting "some".
I was around for the now-idealized eras of perfect comity and interaction, and what I mainly remember is how each of the mods now being hailed as some Hero of the Forums when viewed through the golden haze of nostalgia was in practice a very polarizing figure who (inevitably?) alienated and pissed off as many people as they made friends with. What all this boils down to is that the people running the show decided to make a change and now we've got some butthurt types freaking out because they're not getting the hugs they feel entitled to. If they've narrowed the focus of community interaction down to just promoting the game and keeping us in the loop on upcoming releases (which they've done a good job of from where I sit), great. I'm here for the game, not catching a buzz off rubbing shoulders with higher ups on the forums. |
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
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Quote:
One of the myriad people who talk to me told me this after PAX. I could be misremembering, but from what I remember, they told me that they saw on Linked-In that he'd moved companies sometime this summer.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Quote:
When was that? I know he has only had a "I work for NCSoft, but not for Paragon" hobby interest in the game for a long time, so "real work" takes first place with him, but... |
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This isn't so much the case anymore.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
this place still has more direct dev/mod interaction that any other game I've been around. From my POV you're already getting "some".
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I'm not complaining about the level of interaction here (it could be higher, but I am largely indifferent), but I can think of at least one other MMO with more interaction between the players and the community reps/devs (as an example, it's had 85 dev posts since October 1st, most of them concerning feedback on changes on their test server).
I smell the work of middle management myself. Some person brought in to shake things up and the first thing they do is change the one things that worked really well: the community. The nuking of the Hero/Villain Culture forums was unneccesary and reeked of desperation and now the silencing of the OCR team all just suggest a manager desperate to make their mark in the company. I know, I've met enough of them. 
The chances are, there is little they can say or do compared to how things used to be despite everything they wish they could do. But this is a tangible change that some veterans have picked up on. And it's not a change for the better.
Teaming with the community is all very nice but when we've got a 'serious' concern, who do we address it to? Or will we just be met with a wall of silence? The EU community is one sub section of these forums where there's been significant concerns for quite a while and nothing substantially said to allay those concerns. In trying to get these concerns to a representative, we were told to use the forums for feedback as they are the 'official' route for such things. Since then, nothing.
So you see, it's not about needing cuddle bunny hugs every five minutes, it's about knowing that our feedback and our concerns are being listened to. And given that we barely even see an acknowledgement of issues when they are raised, it's no wonder that some folks are getting concerned.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
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Very like those
You know the problem with the links you posted though? They are obsolete.
All of those threads kicked off before GR launched.
Manticore and the Television have disappeared into the ether apparently.
And as I said previously no senior Dev has made any meaningful post regarding the game since GR launched.
Why do you suppose that is?
Thelonious Monk
Have they thrown in the towel but don't want to scare us away?
Have they...? Have they...?
And that right there is the 300lb gorilla in the room. Rampant speculation concerning the game we all care about when in the past we would have had some response from OCR concerning the negativity and reassuring the community that the future is still bright for COX.
Now, I've met both Avatea and Ocho IRL, and while the situation wasn't conducive to getting to know them well, I was able to spend a little time chatting with each of them, and I have to say that in person, they're warm, friendly, caring people who (at least a year ago) are thrilled to be working with this game. I don't see that coming across in the communications with us, however.
But to me, it's mostly about the overall lack of communication (post count) and quality thereof.
* Sure, we get announcements, but hardly ever any response to feedback on those announcements.
* Sure, Noble Savage has had some great posts asking for player feedback, and seems to be taking the feedback to heart, but where are posts by people outside of the art department (let alone of a similar nature)? I love David's presence on the boards, but he is now the exception, whereas in the past, his behavior would have been the norm.
* Sure, we had some decent feedback/response during GR beta, but where has that gone when we hit live?
* Sure, I loved Ex/LH/Cuppa's clear exuberance and love of the community, but I can do without it. Far more important was the constant flow of information, and clear notion that our voices were being heard and concerns directed upward, with answers coming back (not all the time, and certainly not always the answers we "wanted", but the dialog was there).
* It's staggering to me that, within 2 months of the first paid expansion of this game in years, there is a constant and palatable concern with the future of this game, and the OCR team has done nothing to dissuade them at all. Seriously, where was the last time that happened with an MMO? Look, some of these fears are probably unfounded, some of them are reactionary, some reading too much into small details, however, when they start becoming more and more prevalent, they need to be addressed. The longer they swirl around, the louder thoe voices become, and the more people start listening.
At this point, marketing/OCR are doing the game a disservice via their silence, and it's at a time where they should be riding/fanning the optimism of a new expansion, and gearing up to protect this game against the competition that launches in less than 2 months.