Are OCR (and Marketing) missing the marks?
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2010-09-08 17:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
(...) needing a combination of relaxing escape and extra connection. CoX was great for me in this regard a few years back.
That experience combined with my perception of an involved, responsive and generally generous and enthusiastic development team fostered a deep sense of loyalty to this title, Paragon studios and even the distributor NC Soft. In recent months though, my sense of loyalty has eroded significantly. But I can't fully put my finger upon why. Yes the party pack thing is part of it. Yes the extremely low value of the GR complete pack (which I bought) is another part of it. Yes the lack of redname participation on the forums is another part of it. Yes an overall underwhelmed personal response to GR itself is another part of it. (The rolling release of the game with powersets and ultramode being released sort of as issues sort of as the expansion was a miscalculation in my mind. Made me feel like GR was a lot less substantial when it finally dropped. Plus it makes all the prior "free" issues seem like almost nothing once GR related aspects are removed.) Anyways, I've found myself in a lull again where I just can't be bothered to log in anymore. I've hit this point before and taken breaks, three to six months at a time. But during MOST of those periods (...), I remained subscribed to the game. I guess sometimes that was so I could just log in on occasion for a fix or to see if I was ready to come back. But mostly it was out of loyalty to the game and its creators. I understand the assertions that NC Soft and Paragon are both businesses. And that they are out for profit. On the other hand, some small businesses, like restaurants and landlords rely upon long term customer loyalty. Maybe I'm a fool though to have ever offered up my loyalty as if an MMO could ever be a cottage industry. The seeming trend to make a buck off of every small thing produced for the game has definitely helped me come to the decision that at this point, if I'm not actually playing the game that month, I'm not going to carry the credit card charge. There are some cultural institutions, like local museums, who get my dime each year for a membership, even if I go but four or five times a year. For better or worse, CoX, which was the only digital institution I esteemed in that manner, is no longer on that list. If I'm not playin', I won't be payin'. |
... as loathe as I am to admit it, I'm at the same exact point with CoX. Certainly, other factors are contributing to this, such as my wife's inactivity in the game, my vacant SG (which all but disbanded long before GR), and other games coming out this fall and winter on other platforms (which I am, but current forum rules, unable to discuss by name). However, the current colder shoulder by the OCR staff certainly hasn't kept my opinion of the game as warm as it has been in the past. And that's hard to admit with friends still in the game and a 6.5 year investment.
I am curious as to whether that other superhero MMO (no...not the one out at the moment, the one coming out soon) hasn't been the cause of all this.
Lets face it, it has a big well known brand name, heroes that have becoming engrained into popular culture and a lot of money behind it. I doubt it is just Paragon Studios that are worried, that Certain Other superhero MMO is probably even more terrified (I actually resubbed to it a few days ago and realised just how freaking terrible the costume creator is compared to CoH though that may be more a question of art style than actual badness...which is subjective to say the least).
That Certain Other MMO apparently has lower subscriber rates after just two years than CoH has after six, if I was them I'd certainly be worried.
I definitely seems like the reason behind the 'NO VIDEOGAMES!' ruling that has come about (one which I will admit people do flaunt in sly manners on occasion...so it's pointless anyway) and probably the reason everything is being played very hush hush by marketting.
Though that doesn't explain the lack of response on the Party Pack incident, what has been said here though suggests that the devs themselves probably thought it was a terrible idea but marketting and someone in a higher up corporate position told them to do it anyway. They can't be seen to be saying, "It was a crappy idea, we're sorry..." because then that sets a precedent just as the Vibora Pay incident did for that Certain Other MMO.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I agree, but my overall point still stands. Levity is one thing, but some of the recent responses have been the equivalent of "you'll eat it and like it," which is less than conducive. Especially when, as you say, there seems to be a consensus on certain topics. The bottom line in any business *is* the bottom line, so keeping the customers happy is generally a good thing, within reason.
Besides, most of the posters here don't act like petulant children. One of the things that makes this forum better than every other gaming forum I've been to. |
I'd agree with pretty well all of this.
I think I've said before that when NCSoft took over the entire CoH property, there was a sea-change that promised a bright future for the game and that lasted quite a while but has been rapidly eroded by certain non-Development issues involved in running and managing the game.
Thelonious Monk
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...your not alone...almost all of my crew are 6+ year vets...although the SG's are semi full there is a real feeling of uncertainty about the future. Usually we chat about "whats next and i cant wait" now its more of "will see and how much is it going to cost lol" . Throw in the cultural shift around here and toss in silence from the staff(spare me the working on i19/i20) its easy to get jaded. Might be time for a break for me |
Originally Posted by Obsidius
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... as loathe as I am to admit it, I'm at the same exact point with CoX. Certainly, other factors are contributing to this, such as my wife's inactivity in the game, my vacant SG (which all but disbanded long before GR), and other games coming out this fall and winter on other platforms (which I am, but current forum rules, unable to discuss by name). However, the current colder shoulder by the OCR staff certainly hasn't kept my opinion of the game as warm as it has been in the past. And that's hard to admit with friends still in the game and a 6.5 year investment. |
While I'll agree that the CHVC change was indeed a kneejerk fear reaction to DC, I can see the flawed logic behind it. At least in the eyes of marketing.
However, if that was the case, the new 'we don't care about the community anymore' attitude isn't as easy to understand.
Have they just decided to put us on the backburner while gearing up for the next big project?
Have they thrown in the towel but don't want to scare us away?
Have they...? Have they...?
And that right there is the 300lb gorilla in the room. Rampant speculation concerning the game we all care about when in the past we would have had some response from OCR concerning the negativity and reassuring the community that the future is still bright for COX.
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Could you provide an example here? I've never seen them be snarky, I've seen them lock threads with humor which I am glad for but I've not seen snarkey. Also in the multitudes of pm's I have gotten (I was approaching forum ban on 2 accounts) they where always profesional in what they wrote almost sympathetic but always doing their job.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
But the level of snarkiness from some of the community reps is uncalled for. They're being paid, we're doing the paying, so we get to act like petulant children if we like, they have to be professional.
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I still don't get why people are so fussed about the party pack I think its a pisspoor pack and not worth the money but I imagine so rp's would like it, and its not like you have to buy it. I just don't get it.
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As an addendum to my prior assessment:
Ocho's latest announcement regarding the two new auras is a bit more in line with where things used to be and what I think fostered my loyalty: a steady stream of small treats. Similar to your favorite coffee house offering up a few samples here and there or spotting you a free cup of coffee now and then as a surprise.
Mostly these things have come in the form of costume pieces. In my opinion, CoX lives and dies by it's character creator. Honestly, if we were to get more costume bits more often: as in DEFINITELY in each issue, DEFINITELY in ALL booster packs (die, party pack, die! *stab stab*) and occasionally as a rare once a year or two mini release either timed with events or just cuz (remember how AWESOME you thought the devs were when they just released for free as a big THANK YOU to the fans and subscribers the jester costume set by then newbie artist Sexy J? THAT stood out amongst all other MMO titles IMO)--maybe then I think I'd find my sense of loyalty re-flourishing.
But since this is a business, I guess somebody there at Paragon and/or NC Soft needs to do the math and decide the value of our loyalty, calculate how it may or may not affect subscriber rates and if it offsets the sort of profits that come from a strip mining nickle and dime strategy (that in my mind releases like the party pack represents).
But back to Ocho's announcement: that is the sort of thing I'd like to see more of and something that would likely win me back. Though I'm only one customer.
Edit: There was also a better sense of tease and tickle about what was coming up in terms of future releases before. And that tease was less about mission content or game systems and more of showing off little costume bits that are in the coming releases. As dumb as it may sound, excitement over those little teases, sometimes six or four weeks from release, would be enough to make me want to log in a character who would likely use that costume later. This kept me subscribed, even during my lulls. It generated buzz and excitement amongst many folks I'd play with. And this contributed to a communal sense of excitement and well being within the game itself. All of this helped contribute to a fun, enjoyable and exciting escape from the day to day and kept me a satisfied customer.
I think this sort of buzz is exactly what has been missing for me from CoX. I miss it. I enjoyed it. It added to the overall entertainment value of being involved with the game.
So marketing, if you're reading, don't underestimate the power of a steady stream of small costume bits (or more generally, character customization features including auras, alternate power animations AND EVEN *free* emotes...)
I'll throw this out here: I've unsubscribed after 6 years. Lots of little things contributed, but ultimately I've played the game for six years and I can't see a reason to continue. I held on to see what Going Rogue contained and was disappointed; it was also disappointing to see comments of "just wait until I19 and I20" from the devs so soon after GoRo launched. GoRo was meant to be the release that showed off all the extra resources Paragon Studios had received; instead it was less than the sum of its parts. Extremely unlikely to come back, but I'm keeping an eye out for Paragon Studios announcement of their next title.
No, you can't have my stuff. It's still MY stuff. :-)
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Who could have seen that coming? |
Originally Posted by UnSub
I've unsubscribed after 6 years.
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Sorry, first thing that crossed my mind given your forum name.
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| No, you can't have my stuff. It's still MY stuff. :-) |
In all seriousness, hope you get lured back in the future. Paragon should be doing its best to retain or at least re-snare long-time vets.
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Not me, UnSubs been around for ages. Sad to see ya go.
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Originally Posted by Hallowed
Who could have seen that coming?
Sorry, first thing that crossed my mind given your forum name. |
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Unsub unsubbed?????
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Well i forgot the UI but i spent more time labeling than enri did :P
I know you said in game stuff doesn't matter but this was also announced on the forums.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
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Why does nc think that sending me multiple emails about GR, the party pack, and all the whatever is going to help sales?
I have all that stuff already.
Shouldn't they be emailing, oh, I dunno maybe people that don't play the game?
It just seems kind of... eh...words and stuff.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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It goes out to all people who did and are subscribed to the game, trying to draw them back in. They are advertising to new people right now in comic books.
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
Why does nc think that sending me multiple emails about GR, the party pack, and all the whatever is going to help sales?
I have all that stuff already. Shouldn't they be emailing, oh, I dunno maybe people that don't play the game? It just seems kind of... eh...words and stuff. |
And on Youtube via Google ads!
I was looking at teasers/trailers for the new Avengers cartoon and it had a "Try City of Heroes for free" ad.
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I hit thottbot once and found the background was....Going Rogue GJ!
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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I thought you stayed subscribed so that you could sit around and be disappointed by how long it was taking to get the next new thing, and then disappointed in said thing once it got here. |
Originally Posted by UnSub
I'll throw this out here: I've unsubscribed after 6 years. Lots of little things contributed, but ultimately I've played the game for six years and I can't see a reason to continue. I held on to see what Going Rogue contained and was disappointed; it was also disappointing to see comments of "just wait until I19 and I20" from the devs so soon after GoRo launched. GoRo was meant to be the release that showed off all the extra resources Paragon Studios had received; instead it was less than the sum of its parts. Extremely unlikely to come back, but I'm keeping an eye out for Paragon Studios announcement of their next title.
No, you can't have my stuff. It's still MY stuff. :-) |
To be perfectly frank, I'm not sad to see you go. Your doomcrying totted up to look "researched" made you a persistent negative nancy, and didn't do a damn thing to help the game or the community.
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I'm sad to UnSub go. He was a fine member of the community. Good BioShock guide, also.
Lemur, on the other hand...
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And one day, I may even finish it. :-)
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Originally Posted by Jetpack
Good BioShock guide, also.
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Fair enough. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
I thought you stayed subscribed so that you could sit around and be disappointed by how long it was taking to get the next new thing, and then disappointed in said thing once it got here.
To be perfectly frank, I'm not sad to see you go. Your doomcrying totted up to look "researched" made you a persistent negative nancy, and didn't do a damn thing to help the game or the community. |
Best of luck on getting the Scoop back up.
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Heh, I'm impressed you remembered that post.|
Originally Posted by UnSub
And one day, I may even finish it. :-)
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Good luck to you.
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The Scoop is dead. It has been buried. We will be holding a wake... wait, that's already happened, too. If you're into zombies, I think there's back issues over at P-wiki. |
Originally Posted by UnSub
Best of luck on getting the Scoop back up.
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Re: the OP:
I think that there's a certain amount of truth to what Obs (and others) is seeing - the "feel" of the community has changed, and the OCR team is part of that. I mean, who even remembers to mention EMPulse? She's the head of the OCR team, and we all forget about her. The fact that she never posts helps that along. We all see Avatea and Ocho, but ... the communications from them are usually fairly formal, without reaching out to the community as a whole in any substantial way (I've had a few casual PM exchanges, but that's a little different).
Now, I've met both Avatea and Ocho IRL, and while the situation wasn't conducive to getting to know them well, I was able to spend a little time chatting with each of them, and I have to say that in person, they're warm, friendly, caring people who (at least a year ago) are thrilled to be working with this game. I don't see that coming across in the communications with us, however.
I have more thoughts, but the fever has turned my brain to goo and it's dribbled out my ears and now I've forgotten everything I was going to say.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head there - however much they may love the game and community I don't see their enthusiasm coming across in their interaction with the community which is kind of unusual for that kind of role I guess
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Originally Posted by Cende
I think that there's a certain amount of truth to what Obs (and others) is seeing - the "feel" of the community has changed, and the OCR team is part of that. I mean, who even remembers to mention EMPulse? She's the head of the OCR team, and we all forget about her. The fact that she never posts helps that along. We all see Avatea and Ocho, but ... the communications from them are usually fairly formal, without reaching out to the community as a whole in any substantial way (I've had a few casual PM exchanges, but that's a little different).
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Thelonious Monk
Which is probably making the situation WORSE because the arguements about the pack are still going on.
It does look like Marketting has suddenly stepped up into a massive position of control, the lack of response on the pack AND the recent Culture forum changes all smack of marketting going about their dubious ways.
Prehaps Obsidius is right, we've caused this, we complained that marketting did bugger all and now marketting seems to be the one incharge, atleast a lot less subtle than they were before.
A while back when I jokingly stated that "marketing should be fired" I wasn't joking.
Edit: it should be known that hostilities from me are HARD EARNED.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.