Meh. I'm glad you're so easily entertained. I preferred shield charge the way it's been for the last year.
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I didn't. It was too overpowered.
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Originally Posted by damojs
Meh. I'm glad you're so easily entertained. I preferred shield charge the way it's been for the last year.
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Yeah, glad for the change. It was over the top crazy, and it pushed a fairly easy game into the even easier range. A bit more challenge is good, especially requiring the use of more than one power. Shield Charge should be fun, but not an "I win" button.
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Funny thing is that, even from the tanker perspective where the lower damage should be even more apparent, I barely even noticed the change. If I hadn't known it was coming, I would never have noticed a thing. Even *after* the damage has been nerfed, hitting BU, SC, and then my AoEs still makes everything that I didn't miss fall over. Considering the radius, damage, and recharge, the power is still amazingly good - it's just not shattering planets right and left anymore.
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I would probably have noticed the nerf even if it wasn't announced, but that's mostly because one of my two shielders is a SD/DM tank. I am happy with the change, despite having heavily IO'd both, as now I can actually consider other secondaries, too, without "gimping" myself from a min/max perspective.
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I've barely noticed the change in terms of damage output on my Dark/Shield. Instead of all minions being dead there are now on average of 3 still alive with about 1/8th their health left.
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I've noticed. I play on +3 though. I am no longer annihilating everything in a single shot. It was fun while it lasted, but the character is still fun to play so this is a hit I don't at all mind taking for the sake of balance.
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Yea, I've had to follow up shield charge with a fireball now to clear a spawn. I sensed the Council Empire troopers were happy with the release notes detailing the change, but then I mowed em all down with alternating rounds of Shield Charge, Lightning Rod, Thunderstrike and Fireball and their celebration was short lived. 
Am quite happy with the change, knew it was coming, knew why it would be coming. Its undone the sudden lack of appeal I got for my Elec/Fire brute when it came out as suddenly fire doesn't look so weak damage wise (when damage is the main thing that fire brings)
Hit my tank worst but I guess that's fine, someone else can do the killing now I'll just tank or something
My Fire/Shield scrapper still feels amazing, just not like cheating anymore
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/agree 100%.
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I havent played mine yet (busy with GR) but i cant asy i agree with the nerf. Ill tell you why.
The game is suppose to be balanced around SO's. IF that is the case, then why nerf powers (not just SD) because IO's make them stronger? Isn't that the point of IO's? Especially purples, since they offer such big gains in %'s.
I think the DEVS need to take in alot more consideration of the effects of IO's and instead of nerfing everything AFTER the time and money is spent on them and make the weaker from the start of just let them be. If the game is truely based around SO's, then accept the fact that IO's are goning to make toons stronger. If people don't want to IO toons, then they shouldn't complain about powers being "overpowered" because that's teh whole point of IO's. (IMO)
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Be... Because it wasn't nerfed because of IO's. The damage modifier wasn't set to where it should have been. It was much, much stronger than it was supposed to be, IO's or not.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
I havent played mine yet (busy with GR) but i cant asy i agree with the nerf. Ill tell you why.
The game is suppose to be balanced around SO's. IF that is the case, then why nerf powers (not just SD) because IO's make them stronger? Isn't that the point of IO's? Especially purples, since they offer such big gains in %'s. I think the DEVS need to take in alot more consideration of the effects of IO's and instead of nerfing everything AFTER the time and money is spent on them and make the weaker from the start of just let them be. If the game is truely based around SO's, then accept the fact that IO's are goning to make toons stronger. If people don't want to IO toons, then they shouldn't complain about powers being "overpowered" because that's teh whole point of IO's. (IMO) |
I certainly notice the change on my BS/SD scrapper; more because of the split between the 5' radius and the larger area than the total reduction. I'm having to wait an extra second for the mobs to close in tighter than I used to... the BU+SC+WS combo still takes out +2 minions, if I pop a couple of reds it'll kill LT's as well.
In the closer AOE it seems like the reduction is about 3 small reds worth of damage; noticeable but not a crippling change. It's still a very effective character, frankly it'd be effective even without SC.
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If that was the whole case then why was the recharge even touched? If it was an issue that Castle 'knew about', the it seems to me that they would have just changed that. They made a couple tweaks, then, changed the damage modifier. |
Originally Posted by Endlessly
Be... Because it wasn't nerfed because of IO's. The damage modifier wasn't set to where it should have been. It was much, much stronger than it was supposed to be, IO's or not.
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Theres also a post that Castle made in the GR section about 'high end toons' with the "fix". Ill try to find it.
Found this.
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Originally Posted by Castle
Brutes basically performed as desired at normal levels of gameplay, but at the extremes, were too strong offensively compared to Scrappers, and too strong Defensively compared to Tanks. So, I buffed tanks defensively, and slightly tweaked brutes offense.
Differences on a Scale 1 attack: Code:
Class Base OldMax NewMax Brute 42 357 325.5 Scrapper 67.725 338.625 338.625 |
Now, notice where he said "at the extremes". Well, all purpled out toons or any other toon heavily IO'd are going to be "at extremes". Therefore should not be adjusted if the system is based around "normal play" with which he said "was fine".
Now, Castle, don't get ticked at me for pointing this out, but it's not right to "fix" toons based on extreme toons heavily IO'd. If so, just axe the whole IO system (imo) and go back to SO's so that we will all be equal.
I think SD was the same way. Was fine under normal play but not at extremes.
I tested and gave extensive feedback in beta about this change. I fought vigorously to keep the recharge the same and lower damage. Anyone who wants the first pass changes that Castle suggested (keep damage about the same but change the recharge from the current 90 seconds to 150 seconds) I think is nuts.
This power *had* to change. There's no way in heck that a scrapper defensive power should rival (sometimes outright exceed) what a blaster nuke can do. Fortunately, Castle allowed us to give feedback on the issue and the long time shield players preferred the same recharge - lower damage alternative by a wide margin.
This is a good change. The power is still incredible and worth taking. It didn't receive the same treatment that some overpowered powers received in the past.
My shield scrappers now have to apply a second AoE to wipe up +2s. Big deal. The nerf could've come in far worse: reduction of radius, increase in recharge, more decrease in damage, longer animation time, etc.
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Completely wrong. Shield charge with build up and with SOs prior to the changes did close to 788 points of damage every 60 seconds (assuming 2 recharge SOs in SC). Nova with BU and Aim does around 1000 points (around 600 points without BU/Aim). Both completely wipe out +3s. |
Originally Posted by eryq2
I think SD was the same way. Was fine under normal play but not at extremes.
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However, Nova drains all end and recharges at a far slower rate with SOs.
There's no way you can say with a straight face that it was "fine".
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The extremes I was talking about are at/near the damage, recharge, defense and resistance caps. In short, I was talking about teams with multiple force multiplying ATs.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Now, Castle, don't get ticked at me for pointing this out, but it's not right to "fix" toons based on extreme toons heavily IO'd. If so, just axe the whole IO system (imo) and go back to SO's so that we will all be equal.
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IO's can't really do that by themselves.
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That quote was regarding extremes of Fury generation and has nothing to do with Shield Charge. Shield Charge was massively overpowered due to two different calculation errors that occurred at two different times. The previous damage modifier numbers were so high, you'd have to be high to think they were reasonable. Shield Charge was approaching Nova levels of damage for a power in a defensive set with no crash.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Now, notice where he said "at the extremes". Well, all purpled out toons or any other toon heavily IO'd are going to be "at extremes". Therefore should not be adjusted if the system is based around "normal play" with which he said "was fine".
Now, Castle, don't get ticked at me for pointing this out, but it's not right to "fix" toons based on extreme toons heavily IO'd. If so, just axe the whole IO system (imo) and go back to SO's so that we will all be equal. I think SD was the same way. Was fine under normal play but not at extremes. |
Shield Charge was broken unenhanced. And while the fix was delayed, this subject was discussed months ago when the subject first came up on the forums.
Beginning with Castle's post here at the beginning of May, then my reply, my clarification, and then Castle's articulation of likely source of the problem.
When you're dealing 200 points of damage, base without any enhancements or buffs, in a huge AoE, and you think the problem is only at "extreme" levels of play, the wheels have come off the wagon. For the amount of damage the power did it should have recharged once every other wednesday.
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Here I thought there was going to be a thread where everyone praised a nerf.
I was in the process of making my peace with God and preparing for the world to end, but then it happened.
Someone complained!
Whew! Dodged that bullet!
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It's quotes like this that make me miss the rep system.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
For the amount of damage the power did it should have recharged once every other wednesday.
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My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Thanks for not changing the recharge (and thanks for the testers who helped keeping that from happening). That would have completely changed the feel of my Scrapper. To the complainers out there, why bother crying about a power that has simply been made "as good as" Lightning Rod. SC is still a frickin' awesome power!
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Originally Posted by Castle
The extremes I was talking about are at/near the damage, recharge, defense and resistance caps. In short, I was talking about teams with multiple force multiplying ATs.
IO's can't really do that by themselves. |
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Originally Posted by damojs
Meh. I'm glad you're so easily entertained. I preferred shield charge the way it's been for the last year.
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So somehow spamming one power every 40-60 seconds isn't easily entertained?
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I was thinking the same thing.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
So somehow spamming one power every 40-60 seconds isn't easily entertained?
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a lot more fun to play. I feel like I'm actually fighting the enemies now instead of just using my "i win" button and watching everything fall over. The stupidly high damage was fun for a while but I'm actually now having more fun being able to use my other powers once in a while.