Quote:
Fair enough, we're mostly in agreement, but I'm going to add one more quibble. |
Originally Posted by 3dent
That's why I talked about slotted sets.
 Anyway, my point was that not all, not even most, lvl 30 recipes are bought at lvl 30 and for lvl 30 and your correction only reinforces it. |
Frankenslotting is (often) better than *full* sets...
All too frequently, full sets won't max the key attributes of the power you
put them in (Acc & Dmg in an attack, for instance) unless you 6-slot (and
sometimes, not even then).
One of the key points of Frankenslotting is to max the core attributes of
the power in fewer total slots, while still providing some useful bonuses.
For the sake of this particular thread, it's historically cheaper than SO's (over
the duration of the build), which is a big help if you're strapped for cash.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
I have recently entered the "using the market" phase of my gaming experience. Buy low, sell high and crafting some orange drops and selling high.
Also, re farming, am currently "raising" a toon to 50 specifically for farming. That way, hopefully, I will get my 3rd purple at some point...sigh. How rare is rare darn it!?
I've gone in a couple of months from about 50 mil to nearly 750mil playing the market, and playing the game.
Lots of learning involved but it works well.
Good luck!
Justice
Everwood
Triumph
The Trust
Quote:
Not at all. The thing is the higher prices get the more they favor the seller. Just sell your drops, and get more and more for them the higher the prices go. If you're just looking to outfit one build on one character, higher prices across the board make that easier. Especially if you're smart enough to sell your level 50 drops, and buy lower level recipes. There have been times I've gotten a level 50 drop that I wanted (one recent example was a Numina heal) and I crafted it, sold it, and bought two recipes at level 40-ish plus the salvage to craft them from the same set. And that's Redside.
|
Originally Posted by je_saist
The big problem is that the prices on the market have basically spiraled way out of reach of the average player. Some players can afford to farm all day. Some players build archtypes specifically FOR farming. Some players specifically work the market, sitting on cheap bids then turning around and placing items they win at higher prices.
So, your options to get those megabucks enhancements are fairly slim. Either you farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, every chance you get, or you hope you get really lucky and score some purple drops you can sell for mega-bucks. |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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Quote:
Or a player could just have fun playing the game and simply exercise a modicum of common sense and intelligence when using the market. Making influence most certainly does NOT require endless hours of farming. Between merits, AE tickets, and the market, influence practically rains from the sky.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Farm.
Farm. Farm. Farm. Farm. Farm. The big problem is that the prices on the market have basically spiraled way out of reach of the average player. Some players can afford to farm all day. Some players build archtypes specifically FOR farming. Some players specifically work the market, sitting on cheap bids then turning around and placing items they win at higher prices. So, your options to get those megabucks enhancements are fairly slim. Either you farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, every chance you get, or you hope you get really lucky and score some purple drops you can sell for mega-bucks. |
OP: There's plenty of good advice in this thread (with the exception of the above). Head on over to the Market Forum and you'll find plenty more.
Quote:
I've got a friend that's gone 6000+ baddies since she started counting, all level 50+, with no purple. She's getting frustrated.
| How rare is rare darn it!? |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
A more casual way to make an easy 100 million is to just do TFs until you get enough merits to buy a Luck of the Gambler: +Recharge IO. On my server they sell for over 100 million.
Getting a team together to do TFs shouldn't be a problem. It's easy exp, money, everything. You don't have to be a hardcore-nolife farmer to do it.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
Quote:
Just a quickie note: markets aren't divided by server. If you are on blueside, you're trading with all the servers' blueside crowd, *including* across the pond (EU and NA use the same market servers). They're currently only limited by faction (blueside->blueside, redside->redside).|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
On my server they sell for over 100 million.
|
And after Issue 18 drops, you'll be trading with all servers... blueside *and* redside, as they are being merged.
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Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
Sad really. .I played for a little over 3 hours last night and got one Apocalypse and one Hecatomb (not to mention a LotG Defense). I also find that when running missions in Rikti War Zone set for large number of enemies (I think I set at +5 or +6) I have gotten a purple drop 3 nights in a row..|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
I've got a friend that's gone 6000+ baddies since she started counting, all level 50+, with no purple. She's getting frustrated.
|
Might be she needs to run more solo if possible and increase enemy numbers
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Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Greenblood_NA
Sad really. .I played for a little over 3 hours last night and got one Apocalypse and one Hecatomb (not to mention a LotG Defense). I also find that when running missions in Rikti War Zone set for large number of enemies (I think I set at +5 or +6) I have gotten a purple drop 3 nights in a row..
Might be she needs to run more solo if possible and increase enemy numbers |
I'm jealous...really jealous actually. I'd love to get one purple that I could use for either influence or slotting. No such luck though.
Congrats to you though, nice drops!
Justice
Everwood
Triumph
The Trust
Quote:
I did Borea missions at X8 from 45 (at +2) to 50 (at+0) and got 1 purple the entire time.|
Originally Posted by Greenblood_NA
Sad really. .I played for a little over 3 hours last night and got one Apocalypse and one Hecatomb (not to mention a LotG Defense). I also find that when running missions in Rikti War Zone set for large number of enemies (I think I set at +5 or +6) I have gotten a purple drop 3 nights in a row..
Might be she needs to run more solo if possible and increase enemy numbers |
On the other hand, my emp got a purple at 26 and 32 while sidekicked and those were the only two times i got SKed to 50.
Random numbers are random.
My particular bizarre RNG moment came when I took a Force Field defender to the shadow shard to see how tough it is to kill a +2 eyeball boss (hint: it's very hard to FIND a +2 eyeball boss in the shard...) and after a couple hours, there was something really juicy like an Apocalypse triple in my possession. And yet I can play an Elec/Inv brute for days...
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Hey, this thread just gave me a question...
Where does all this money come from? People are making tens of millions playing the market, yes... But those tens of millions are coming from other players, and the consignment house takes a cut.
For this to happen, those tens of millions have to be less than the total that people are bringing in through some other means. What are those other means? Where is the inf really coming from?
Quote:
I can't speak for anyone else, but I make all my inf jerk hacking (dupin).
|
Originally Posted by seebs
Hey, this thread just gave me a question...
Where does all this money come from? People are making tens of millions playing the market, yes... But those tens of millions are coming from other players, and the consignment house takes a cut. For this to happen, those tens of millions have to be less than the total that people are bringing in through some other means. What are those other means? Where is the inf really coming from? |
Quote:
As I recall, FF spent a fair amount of that time at the crafting table crafting numerous recipes to sell the IOs on the market. IMO, that's far from "playing casually." As would be concentrated farming of AE for tickets to roll the recipes for said crafting. "Playing casually" is more than just a matter of time spent in the game.
|
Originally Posted by StarGeek
Read Fury Flechette's A Market Journal: From 0 to Millions and follow the advice there. Playing casually, just a few hours a day, Fury went from 0 to 1,030,858,048 (over 1 billion) in a week.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Blueside: From punching bad guys in the face.|
Originally Posted by seebs
Hey, this thread just gave me a question...
For this to happen, those tens of millions have to be less than the total that people are bringing in through some other means. What are those other means? Where is the inf really coming from? |
Redside: From punching good guys in the face.
Quote:
I agree completely Very nice write up.
|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
je_saist is wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong.
There are two implied conditions: 1) You actually want these expensive IOs and 2) you're willing to put a little work into getting them. There's nothing wrong with wanting expensive stuff, but I'm just going to put it out there that you may not need it. Frankenslotting will probably do just fine. As for the "little work", we're talking maybe five hours to learn the basics? I don't know, I learned it in issue 9 and there were no guides. After that it's very quick. Look at the top level of any given melee, range, healing, defense, or resistance set. That's six recipes and six enhancements. There's a good chance you can find ONE recipe/enhancement pair with the following characteristics: 1) The enhancement has "last five" sales all in the last couple days. 2) The cost of the enhancement is much greater than the cost of the ingredients, plus the cost of crafting, plus 11% for Wentfees. 3) You can afford the recipe plus the ingredients. 4) The set has at least one orange recipe in it. You can make a couple million a shot on some sets that are yellow-only, but you have to be cleverer. Put up your fairly low bids and walk away. This is the other secret- it's like baking. You cannot rush it. When you next log in, you will probably have the recipe, and possibly have the expensive parts of the salvage. If you've chosen your niche right you should have, say, costs of a million and a half for something that's selling for 10 million. Now list it for WELL under sale price- they sell fast, and buyers round up to the nearest number, so they'll bid 1 million, 5 million, 10 million if they're being CAREFUL. DO NOT USE THIS SPECIFIC EXAMPLE: I'm going to look at Devastation. Caps out at 50, so look only at the level 50 stuff. All of these look implausibly good, right? Lots of sales in the last 5 days, you can buy a recipe for 100,000 and sell the crafted for 8 million? It's still good, but it's not THAT good. I'd probably go for the acc/dam myself, but any of these should work. Here's the math: 1)Buy recipe, 100K 2) Buy rikti alloy, around a million inf [by 9 PM this will be selling for millions but right now it's 300K...supply and demand swings wildly] 3) Buy everything else, maybe 100K 4) Craft it for half a million Total investment: 1.7 million inf. List it for, like, 5 million and 1 inf. People like to bid even numbers. You will probably get it for around the 9 million that it's selling for, but even if someone bids low and pays 5 million and 1 (of which Wents gets 10%) you still make 2 million. And you might make 6 or 7 million. Do this five or ten times while you're learning, on five or ten different recipes. You may find something that's really really juicy. Don't overfish it- even if you CRAFT ten of those, don't put them all up for sale at once. Something where you put in 10 million and sell it for 45 million is great, but it is not guaranteed to last. At some point it's going to start selling for 15 million. Find something else. |
Quote:
Side effect of farming at Level 50 for drops or AE for tickets. |
Originally Posted by seebs
Hey, this thread just gave me a question...
Where does all this money come from? People are making tens of millions playing the market, yes... But those tens of millions are coming from other players, and the consignment house takes a cut. For this to happen, those tens of millions have to be less than the total that people are bringing in through some other means. What are those other means? Where is the inf really coming from? |
A Level 50 critter is worth a lot of inf to a Level 50 player. IIRC it's in the 10s of millions per hour.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
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Quote:
There are two answers to this and both are right. |
Hey, this thread just gave me a question... Where does all this money come from? People are making tens of millions playing the market, yes... But those tens of millions are coming from other players, and the consignment house takes a cut. For this to happen, those tens of millions have to be less than the total that people are bringing in through some other means. What are those other means? Where is the inf really coming from? |
The answers everyone else has been giving [level 50 players beating things up] is the core of the money. (It turned out when I9 went live I knew two billionaires. There was nothing much to spend inf on in the first couple years of the game, so it just built up.) But that's not the entire answer. You have to spend inf ten times to get rid of it. An example might make this clear.
Let's say I punch a lot of badguys in the face and make 1,000,000 inf (probably half cash and half from selling level 50 generic recipes.)
I buy something from Appalling-Man for a million. 100K goes to Wentworths. Appalling-man has 900K.
Appalling-man buys something from B0mbsh3ll for 900K, 90K to wentworths and 810 goes to B0mbsh3ll.
B0mbsh3ll buys from Canadian Rage for 810K , Canadian Rage gets 729K and Wents gets the rest.
Canadian Rage buys an SO for 29 K to make my life easier and spends 700K buying from Dbagge, who gets 630K.
Dbagge buys from Eagle-Scout who gets 567K.
Eagle-Scout buys from Firekinsylvania for 510K.
Firekinsylvania buys a jetpack for 10K and has 500K left to spend on the market.
We've still got half the original money left and we've spent 1M+ 900K + 810K + 700K + 630K + 567K + 510K on the market, for a total of about 5.1 million.
If we run the half million through 7 transactions we get about 2.5 million to get to a quarter million, then 1.25 million to get to 125K... it end up that "the market" buys just about 10 million inf of stuff with a million inf of new actual money.
And that's why stuff costs more than it did a year ago.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
The market doesn't buy crap. The market skims the influence off the top and reduces the amount things cost. If there was no fee to list an item for sale, you know people would be gouging for higher amounts.
|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
There are two answers to this and both are right.
The answers everyone else has been giving [level 50 players beating things up] is the core of the money. (It turned out when I9 went live I knew two billionaires. There was nothing much to spend inf on in the first couple years of the game, so it just built up.) But that's not the entire answer. You have to spend inf ten times to get rid of it. An example might make this clear. Let's say I punch a lot of badguys in the face and make 1,000,000 inf (probably half cash and half from selling level 50 generic recipes.) I buy something from Appalling-Man for a million. 100K goes to Wentworths. Appalling-man has 900K. Appalling-man buys something from B0mbsh3ll for 900K, 90K to wentworths and 810 goes to B0mbsh3ll. B0mbsh3ll buys from Canadian Rage for 810K , Canadian Rage gets 729K and Wents gets the rest. Canadian Rage buys an SO for 29 K to make my life easier and spends 700K buying from Dbagge, who gets 630K. Dbagge buys from Eagle-Scout who gets 567K. Eagle-Scout buys from Firekinsylvania for 510K. Firekinsylvania buys a jetpack for 10K and has 500K left to spend on the market. We've still got half the original money left and we've spent 1M+ 900K + 810K + 700K + 630K + 567K + 510K on the market, for a total of about 5.1 million. If we run the half million through 7 transactions we get about 2.5 million to get to a quarter million, then 1.25 million to get to 125K... it end up that "the market" buys just about 10 million inf of stuff with a million inf of new actual money. And that's why stuff costs more than it did a year ago. |
Quote:
I would say you have it backwards. The fee acts to raise prices slightly, in order to compensate for the loss of profit margin. |
Originally Posted by Transhade
The market doesn't buy crap. The market skims the influence off the top and reduces the amount things cost. If there was no fee to list an item for sale, you know people would be gouging for higher amounts.
|
Real life example of this. Remember a couple years ago when gas was going upwards of $4/gallon? Food prices starting going up, because the "Fee" (in this case, increased cost of gas) involved was just passed on to the consumer.
Global @StarGeek
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I wanna expand on something others have hinted at. When playing the market timing is everything. That recipe or piece of salvage that's going for a few hundred thousand now will be selling for several million by 8 or 9 tonight. So why not snap up a few and repost 'em in a few hours when they're in extremely high demand? With that in mind, here are some timing tips:
1) Never buy on weekends. The average age of CoX players is higher than other MMOs. That means most of us have jobs, kids, etc. that take up our time during the week. The sudden increase in players online during the weekend means more people are looking to get stuff and get it NAO!! That's why market prices sky rocket when the week's out (Particularly on Saturdays). It's especially noticeable when looking at salvage prices. Circuit Boards and Spell Ink are two extremely common drops. During the week they can go for as little as 50 influence. But on weekends they'll sometimes go as high as 50K.
2) Daytime is primetime. If you're looking to get things at a bargain place your bids during the day. The reason for this is similar to my first point. There are fewer players online during the day so you won't have to worry as much about competing with others who have much larger bank rolls than you do. It's easy to snap up some of the leftover stuff from the previous night that didn't sell and got reposted for lower prices. Also, your bids will generally come in quicker because there are fewer competing bids clogging the stream.
3) Don't trust nighttime sales records. When bidding during off hours you'll often come across prices that seem extremely high. New marketeers are often discouraged by this because they think that's the average going rate for the item. More often than not that isn't the case. What you're seeing are the prices from the previous night's peak activity. Since fewer people bid during the day those records don't get altered to reflect the deals you can get. Don't let it fool you.
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Quote:
In the micro scale you are correct, the fee lowers profit margins which limits what gets sold and pushes prices up. However in the macro scale Transhade is arguably correct (although I suspect not for the reasons he thinks). The market fee is the only reliable Inf sink in the game, if it was gone then very little inf would leave the game and we would get inflation driving prices even higher with more and more items selling off market.
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Originally Posted by StarGeek
I would say you have it backwards. The fee acts to raise prices slightly, in order to compensate for the loss of profit margin.
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Quote:
Yeah, I can agree with that.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
In the micro scale you are correct, the fee lowers profit margins which limits what gets sold and pushes prices up. However in the macro scale Transhade is arguably correct (although I suspect not for the reasons he thinks). The market fee is the only reliable Inf sink in the game, if it was gone then very little inf would leave the game and we would get inflation driving prices even higher with more and more items selling off market.
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Global @StarGeek
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Timeshadow: You're half correct, I think. Weekend players have both sold me some of my greatest bargains and bought some of my most profitable sales.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I roll 35-39 and the least I've ever realized was 50 million.
Thunderstrikes, Crushing Impacts, Efficacy Adaptor, Doctored Wounds...there are a lot of recipes that regularly bring in ~5 million crafted, as well as plenty of bigger earners in the 20-50 million range.
This is blue side- red has been getting flaky and I think all bets are off until the impending merger.
The basic technique undermines the influence of luck by generating a flood of recipes. I can cap a map in 20-30 minutes, that's 20 recipes. Thanks to drop weighting, a good % of those will be highly salable.
It's not rocket science.
/edit
here's a thread with some discussion of tickets and screens of a couple of runs (scroll down).
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