So, that's why teams are scarce villain-side

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR

Originally Posted by Zwillinger Quote: 16. Has Paragon Studios redefined "player" to require your mouse to subscribe separately from your keyboard? If your mouse has greater processing power than your gfx card, the answer is yes.

I disagree with many parts of this statement, but I'm also aware that this discussion leads nowhere interesting. I have come not to argue, but to dissuade others from arguing, and saving them the trouble. This will likely be unsuccessful, but I try nonetheless.

To cover all angles, though, I'm also making popcorn.

Comic's funny by the way.

Ditto 100 times!

I'm in agreement with your disagreement. I'll pass on the popcorn though. Gets stuck in my teeth. >.<

So whats wrong with fighting them as EBs? Or would ego be better served if they were called AVs with stats of an EB?

I'm... no longer sure who I agree with...

but I'll have some of that popcorn. Thanks.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

First, EB is a watered down down version of the foe. The game says so. When you go to a Field Analyst/Fateweaver, you tell them:

"I would like to fight Arch-villains at their full strength, not as Elite Bosses"
or
"I don't want to fight Heroes at their full strength, I'd rather fight them as Elite Bosses"


This establishes that the true power of the enemy in question is as an AV. This applies not only to sidekicks like Ms. Liberty, but to C-list characters like Arbiter Sands as well. EB is the gimp version, and AV is canonical.

I don't think all of these character should be AVs at 50.

Why should Arbiter Sands get to be more powerful than a player character at 50? Why are most PCs 1/8th of just about every signature character? Why do we rate lower than C-listers?


The answer people will give is: we need content to challenge teams. Right?

Why does that have to take the form of an AV?

It doesn't. The reason it's like that now is because that's easy. It's also boring and uncreative.


How do I think it should work?

-Decide PCs at 50 are truly peers of the Phalanx and Recluse's Circle and set their stats accordingly so players can take them 1v1. Just call them Hero or Villain. No more EB to AV coning or conversion. Make it consistant and logical. No more uber powerful sidekicks or instances of the game's versions of Toad or Stilt Man taking on big groups of seasoned level 50 heroes

-If it's a character that actually should be better than lone PCs, that's fine. Recluse being buffed by the towers at the end of the STF is one thing. He's got a narrative-driven reason for being buffed out the whazoo. That doesn't extend to GW, BS or Mako who aren't hooked up to the towers. Nor to their sidekicks in the mission before that.

-In the case of teamed content, instead of inflating the enemies stats just to provide a challenge for a team, the devs should get creative.

Got a mission that calls for you to beat down Black Scorpion? Play the mission solo, he's there alone. If you attempt it teamed, he brings along an experimental giant robot to back him up.

If you have to fight Manticore on a team of six, have him spawn along with five other Phalanxers as back up or some Wyvern buddies.

There are even more options since they introduced the Doppelganger tech. That was a good addition to the PTF. Too bad stuff like that is in the minority and the older content still relies on encounters with enemies inflated up for teams, and that's likely to continue in new stuff too. Frankly there's no reason they should have to resort to always taking singular enemies that shouldn't be all that powerful and bloating them up to challenge teams. They've indentified alternatives, but they still keep going back to that original well and forcing PCs down.


.

What I'm seeing you type here is that instead of having the option to "gimp" them, you want them "gimped" automatically? Less options is fail, sorry.

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

"Oh sure, you can hide behind your computer screen and rag on StiltMan all you want, but in person he's really really scary... being all tall and stuff..."

I do support the idea, but at this point it aint gonna happen, everything's already set up and done (unless the new 'endgame content' somehow magically changes things). When I first started this game I had to readjust my ideas of what a superhero story would be too, can't recall it ever being about going around and beating up tons of nameless foes.

Yeah, I guess even if I get through him I'd still have to contend with his buddies Owl and Hypno Hustler.

0.o

I doubt the new system is going to bring all players up to the level of soloing the currently existing AVs. And like I said, even if it did, the devs would just invent a con above them called 'Ultra Villains' and make Leapfrog and Big Wheel that in new missions from now on, or go straight to Monster.


.

Players already have the tools to bring their own toons up to the level of soloing AVs. But all the ATs and NPCs are not equal. AV Ghost Widow gets taken out by an EB Longbow Warden, for example.

And until the Devs bring in PCs to take the place of the Freedom Phalanx or Arachnos or whoever, I think NPCs (the stronger ones, anyway) -should- be a few levels above the max a PC can attain.

And for that matter, my take on this is that the lower level versions of the various NPCs you face are not up to full strength for any one of a number of in story reasons. They're either not ready to fight you, don't want to fight you, they've been depowered, they're holding back, or whatever. When you finally face them as an AV or Hero, that's when it's the knock-down, drag-out, take no prisoners fight.

And as far as gameplay goes, I like soloing once in a while. I also rarely keep my toons maxed out at each and every level. I like having the option of having manageable versions of the various Big Gun NPCs I can face.