Fortune go my wife killed
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-06-08 09:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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There's an "UI team"? I was under the impression that the UI was an orphan child of some long lost developer that nobody dared to touch lest they break something {again}.
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Originally Posted by Castle
People saying, "This choice should be something in the options menu" I neither agree nor disagree on this. That's for the UI team to decide, not me.
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Castle, you did right. Thank you.
There are reasons that Mystic Fortune had the prompt in the first place, right?
Later on, you were fixing an exploit and tried to do it without removing the prompt, but couldn't find a way in a timely fashion and, so, removed the prompt.
Something happened afterward and you found a way to put the prompt back in.
You did your job, mate. Thank you, as always.
The UI Team could really do a great thing and give an option to auto accept/decline and all will be greater than before. 
Here's my view of it... The prompt gave players the ability to accept or decline the oddball power that is Mystic Fortune.
Removal of the prompt took away the ability to decline it, leaving players who liked the ability to decline it without any option.
People who do not like the prompt should be pushing for the UI change to include an auto accept/decline option instead of insisting that players who want to decline shouldn't be able to.
Thank you for including it in the first place and thank you for putting it back in.
It's not your fault, Castle (And all Developers), that many players cannot accept middle grounds and compromises between differing opinions and playstyles. This is a trait rampant through much of humanity.
You guys seemingly have to get everything 100% perfect without any oversights, otherwise the rabid dogs begin to feed on each other.
Clearly, dismissing players who don't want to be stuck with a 20 minute buff, debuff, visual and/or audio effect are not worthy of respect by some rather vocal (but certainly not whining) enemies of prompts.
Until there is an option to auto accept/decline, the prompt is the compromise.
P.S. to the OP... I'm sorry for your loss... and happy for her gain.
Can we all lighten up now and have some fun? If we work together, we can do better than when working against each other.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Hey, seems like it's been a while - Welcome back Cantatus?|
Originally Posted by Cantatus
I've been playing MMOs fairly consistently for over the past decade. This is the first one I've ever played where people complain about getting buffed. Heck, when I played EverQuest, I had people go out of their way to track me down so I could give them a certain buff.
I find the whole complaint over Mystic Fortune to be very odd, to say the least. |
Anyway, in EQ me and my friends would actually get pissed at drive by buffers - usually because they would buff us with a buff that we did not want over one we had, yet it was a buff that was a "higher priority" and overwrote our pre-existing buff.
Things like the Temperance and the damage shields - Temp didn't stack, and overwrote, the damage shields we preferred.
So it's not new - you just never noticed it before.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Bind affinity!|
Originally Posted by Cantatus
(Seriously, Castle, what buff did Wizards have that people would go out of their way to get?
 ) |
Of course, if you were running around binding random people, you probably would get complaints...
Yes, I know.
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Hmm... your name doesn't ring any bells, unfortunately, but I am getting up there in years. Did you post on Graffe's as well?|
Originally Posted by RemianenI
Uh uh, Castle. Cantatus was an Enchanter. One of the few who frequented Graffe's. That would surely make him very familiar with buff beggars and people traveling multiple zones to get a buff (or two, in the case of hybrids).
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Hey, seems like it's been a while - Welcome back Cantatus?
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Anyway, in EQ me and my friends would actually get pissed at drive by buffers - usually because they would buff us with a buff that we did not want over one we had, yet it was a buff that was a "higher priority" and overwrote our pre-existing buff. Things like the Temperance and the damage shields - Temp didn't stack, and overwrote, the damage shields we preferred. So it's not new - you just never noticed it before. |
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The majority of this thread consists of people upset at the decision to bring the prompt back, ultimately looking forward to the auto accept/decline solution. Only a couple people are 'insisting' this change should be undone in spite of those who prefer the prompt.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
People who do not like the prompt should be pushing for the UI change to include an auto accept/decline option instead of insisting that players who want to decline shouldn't be able to.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
It's not your fault, Castle (And all Developers), that many players cannot accept middle grounds and compromises between differing opinions and playstyles. This is a trait rampant through much of humanity.
Clearly, dismissing players who don't want to be stuck with a 20 minute buff, debuff, visual and/or audio effect are not worthy of respect by some rather vocal (but certainly not whining) enemies of prompts. Until there is an option to auto accept/decline, the prompt is the compromise. |
The prompt is not the compromise, it is a temporary solution that is just as bad as not having a prompt option altogether. The devs should not be praised for providing a bandaid for the situation, much less a bandaid that is bugged.
Ideally, I'd like to see Mystic Fortune disabled until a proper prompt can be programmed into the UI. That way, those who dislike the prompt will no longer have to deal with it, and those who prefer the prompt really can't complain because there is no random, obtrusive buff to worry about. Of course, then you invite the complaints of those who feel entitled by their $10 to randomly buff anyone they want...the lesser of three evils, perhaps?
This reply turned out longer than I wanted, but understand that it is just a calm response. Trying to make myself clear (Regardless, I'll get plenty of negative comments thrown my way, as keeps happening any time I chime in about this topic, hehe).
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I'm not looking for any arguments at all, I just thought this deserved a reply and I appreciate what you're saying.|
Originally Posted by Optinator
The majority of this thread consists of people upset at the decision to bring the prompt back, ultimately looking forward to the auto accept/decline solution. Only a couple people are 'insisting' this change should be undone in spite of those who prefer the prompt.
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Just so you know, since this was announced in Beta of I17, I, along with others began discussions about it and I've seen plenty of dismissal and gotten plenty of obnoxious comments thrown my way on the boards and in private messages.
I could copy and paste all of my posts about it and none of them were hyperbolic remarks or anything of the sort (Only just my previous two replies about it finally had me responding to people calling us crybabies, whiners and the like... Still, I tried using humor and not lowering myself to bickering). I just try and bring logic to it and hope to achieve understanding. Such is my want.
Let me just point out what you say above here... "The majority of this thread consists of people upset at the decision to bring the prompt back...".
The prompt that gives us the option of refusing an unwanted 20 minute effect (20 minutes is a big chunk of some people's play time. All other player cast buffs last 2-4 minutes... a piddly amount of time in comparison).
And, as you point out, some are (And have been) insisting that the prompt be taken out regardless of any options being put in.
There is dismissal. I'm not looking to pick a bone with you on this, it's just true that people have regularly expressed they don't want the prompt, whining buff-haters be damned.
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Originally Posted by Optinator
There is little dismissing going on in this thread, outside of a few who are very upset, and your post. You are equally guilty of dismissing players who find the prompt a detriment to their gameplay, and as I pointed out, who might even be griefed by the bug it currently brings with it.
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In a perfect world, we'd have that option and this discussion wouldn't be taking place
You have to remember/realize/understand that the power came with the prompt and was only taken out to counteract an exploit.
So, taking out the prompt stunk for those who liked it. It was a change that took away options we had.
Plenty of people who don't want the buff hate the prompt too. It's not people who want to decline the power vs. people who hate the prompt (As I believe you understand as well).
Many people who hate the prompt were all over anyone suggesting that we want the option back to decline.
So, yes, I brought some history into this thread...
But... wait... Look at the OP of this thread and its title.
Come on.
It is further bashing of this change and people brought plenty of the history in here before I decided to reply. I came in defense of Castle who did the right thing. He restored the power's options. The rest of the devs can maybe help the people who dislike the prompt. Win/winQuote:
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Originally Posted by Optinator
The prompt is not the compromise, it is a temporary solution that is just as bad as not having a prompt option altogether. The devs should not be praised for providing a bandaid for the situation, much less a bandaid that is bugged.
Ideally, I'd like to see Mystic Fortune disabled until a proper prompt can be programmed into the UI. That way, those who dislike the prompt will no longer have to deal with it, and those who prefer the prompt really can't complain because there is no random, obtrusive buff to worry about. Of course, then you invite the complaints of those who feel entitled by their $10 to randomly buff anyone they want...the lesser of three evils, perhaps? |
If the power had never lost the prompt and we all asked the Devs to create an auto accept/decline feature, things would be better (But it was only removed due to an exploit).
And yes, really, if they want no prompt for the power, then it could be changed to last 2-4 minutes (And possibly no negative effects).
*shrug*
I think too many people dismiss the Developers in their efforts to counter exploits and making improvements and changes for the sake of the fun of the game.
I got a nice negative comment about my post above... "Excessive *** kissing".
Why? Because I respect and thank Castle.
Nice stuff, hehe. Post that sentiment with your name attached and publicly, anonymous messenger.
Just frustrated with a lot of the negativity I've been seeing around here and I've been trying to counter act it with niceness and humor. I speak my mind, but I try to be respectful and interject some laughs (At least for myself).
I know all to well that things can be read the wrong way.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
oh no, not this discussion again... I can already see the devs will be thinking very long and hard about any future temp powers they add through booster packs.
on topic: I haven't seen this new rooting bug, as I haven't been in-game for a few days, but it sounds like it's bound to develop some problems.
FWIW I prefer not having the prompt at all, but if it comes down to wasting development time in order to add options for auto-accept/decline or keeping the prompt, I'd rather keep the prompt and let the devs work on making cool new stuff instead.
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The OP is not so much about the prompt as it is the bug that has come with it for this new patch. I would not call that bashing, nor throwing the issue at anyone. However, the thread has horribly derailed into the same discussion as all previous threads on this matter. I would have bailed out on this thread, much like those, if not for the fact that this bug IS a potential griefing tool and I would hope anything like that would get priority in fixing. I was also surprised with most of the discussion from people unhappy with the return of the prompt...everyone seems open to the idea of more options at this point than less.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I am not dismissing anyone or anything (This new rooting animation is different than the prompt and shouldn't be thrown at those who are happy to have their options back).
Many people who hate the prompt were all over anyone suggesting that we want the option back to decline. So, yes, I brought some history into this thread... But... wait... Look at the OP of this thread and its title. Come on. It is further bashing of this change and people brought plenty of the history in here before I decided to reply. |
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I came in defense of Castle who did the right thing. He restored the power's options. The rest of the devs can maybe help the people who dislike the prompt. Win/win
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I think too many people dismiss the Developers in their efforts to counter exploits and making improvements and changes for the sake of the fun of the game.
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If I never see another temporary power in a booster pack, it'll be too soon.|
Originally Posted by Mystic_Cross
oh no, not this discussion again... I can already see the devs will be thinking very long and hard about any future temp powers they add through booster packs.
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On the subject of "unwanted" buffs, the only solution I can think of that would satisfy everyone would be to allow us to kill our own buffs, or at least buffs cast by other people on us. Not via prompt, mind you, but by a system similar to how you kill temporary powers.
I happen to be an avid hater of temporary powers. If all the temps suddenly disappeared, I would not bat an eye. But they exist, and I deal with them, largely by deleting or shelving the powers I get. I'm not a fan of "drive-by buffing" for the simple fact that I try to run on my own merits, but I don't go off on people who do it because their buffs usually expire pretty quickly, and I can always take the opportunity to go to the loo. The buff is usually gone by the time I come back.
But the Mystic Fortune buff is just... Bad. It has a REALLY annoying sound effect every time you zone, it has the potential to apply a debuff which, while not major, is ANNOYING and INSULTING, and it's tagged at 20 minutes GAME TIME. I've been hit with Mystic Fortune, logged off and found I had 18-ish minutes on it when I came back the next day. Even death doesn't remove the Mystic Fortune effect, and I should know - I've tried using Self Destruct to remove it. No dice. It's as persistent as the Vahzilok Disease, the Crey Narcotic and the Curse of Weariness... All of which I see as about the same level of annoyance as Mystic Fortune.
The prompt for the power is just an easy way to allow me to get rid of it. I honestly don't care if this is transformed into a UI prompt to let me autodecline, or if it's an option to delete the buff itself after the fact. My primary concern is that I do NOT have Mystic Fortune on me, however that may be achieved.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hehe, coming back to this after working late probably made my wording a bit off, but yeah "coming to Castle's defense" is a bit overly stated and not what I meant, hehe. I just see Developers (And any artist just trying to do their thing in any form of entertainment) come and mention struggles to do things right by the customers/community/audience and I feel for them. Castle, though, has proven many times that he's well equipped at handling that end of the job.
Anyway, Opinator, you are right about the real topic that should be highlighted here... the rooting of the power.
I, too, was annoyed to see this discussion dragged into here.
I had said what I had to say about it weeks ago and decided to drop out of it until just recently. Demeaning comments just got to me this time around. I don't think I said anything wrong nor fell out of line with my comments, but there's zero point in continuing that particular conversation any further.
Since you showed a sense of logic and respect in your reply, I wanted to make clear my end of things, because I don't tend to come off as some halfwit complaining about an off-topic issue with tons of silly history.
Ah well, we all have those nights, I suppose.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Castle you really annoy me sometimes. Yes there is such a thing as listening to player feedback but at the end of the day, you are the designer not us. There comes a point when you should make a decision which you think is right for the game and stick to it. If you have no opinion on the matter then find someone who does. |
Originally Posted by Castle
Weren't you a Wizard in EQ? I remember you from Graffe's Wizards forums, in any case.
People saying, "This choice should be something in the options menu" I neither agree nor disagree on this. That's for the UI team to decide, not me. In any case, that particular task is not one that I can undertake, so telling me doesn't really help beyond my passing it along to the powers that be. |
This whole notion of "they told me to remove it so I did" and then "they told me to put it back in so I did" and now "I guess people will always complain" is completely unprofessional and rediculous. You are the one in charge and ultimately the one who has responsibility.
So stop being so preoccupied with trying to please everyone because you never will, and stop passing the buck everytime you do I lose more respect for you. (Yes I'm talking about the comment in the scrapper forum where you publicly blamed Sunstorm for some bug with a Shield power - totally unnessecary. **Collective bloody responsibility!**)
There, rant over.
P.S The prompt is bad, but having to go through the animation of casting it on yourself once you accept the buff is even worse.
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Better cover your eyes when the next one comes out, then.
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Samuel_Tow needs a blindfold: If I never see another temporary power in a booster pack, it'll be too soon.. |
Dec out.
I'm one of the people who are annoyed about the prompt and wish to see it gone. Currently I request in teams that no one casts mystic fortune on me but people just don't seem to listen (though if I am leader I can always boot them).
Don't get me wrong - I love the buffs, but it is god damn annoying when someone decides to use it in midbattle and suddenly you are stuck and get face full of prompt. I'd like to see setting for autoselecting or autodenying it.
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Yeah, yeah. And my neighbours won't stop having stomping rows, and my ****** power company won't stop randomly cutting my power for no reason and overcharging me anyway, and my cable provide won't stop sucking and I won't stop having to go to work if I want to pay my bills.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
Better cover your eyes when the next one comes out, then.
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Don't mean I'll start liking any of those over it, either.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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*edit*
Stupid double post! I thought the forum software wouldn't let me post the same thing twice? What happened to that check?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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well i'm sure this has been brought up. I thought the original reason there was a prompt was because the power could give out a negative effect (death) so you could opt out of that chance for risk. Now that there is no negative effect from death (i know some people don't like the fool, but it's not the worse buff in the world) I don't see a reason to have the prompt anymore, i was happy it was gone. I don't care that it is there either.
RPer's, aside from the rare case where your character has a severe distaste for magic...you can't explain this away? Where odds are you team or interact with magical personages everyday? I don't really see a reason for having the pop-up anymore. I see even less reason to complain about it.
flame on.
Roxy On DA...Finally!
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The original version had the chance of the effect of death? Who on Earth thought that would have been good thing? Seriously?|
Originally Posted by the_fox_Rox
well i'm sure this has been brought up. I thought the original reason there was a prompt was because the power could give out a negative effect (death) so you could opt out of that chance for risk. Now that there is no negative effect from death (i know some people don't like the fool, but it's not the worse buff in the world) I don't see a reason to have the prompt anymore, i was happy it was gone. I don't care that it is there either.
RPer's, aside from the rare case where your character has a severe distaste for magic...you can't explain this away? Where odds are you team or interact with magical personages everyday? I don't really see a reason for having the pop-up anymore. I see even less reason to complain about it. flame on. |
This has to be one of the worst temp powers EVER thought through. Or in this case NOT thought through at all.
Luckily saner minds prevailed and that didn't arrive in the final version.
Back on topic:
I don't care either way if there is or isn't a prompt. The buffs/debuffs are so miniscule most of my characters hardly notice them.
HOWEVER, put me down in the camp that's glad that Castle is forwarding it to the UI team so that folks can just auto enable or disable it if they want.
The fact that the animation is now bugged for this thing is humorous.
This temp power is starting to turn into the techincal drama that oil slick was.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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There is nothing about this particular buff that makes getting it "worse" than getting any other buff. If anything, it's less obnoxious than SB, and it's not going to get someone killed like teleport or a badly positioned raise can.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Both options can cause something to happen against your will. The division is over which thing is more undesirable, and is being debated strictly between people who consider either effect (or, in some cases, both effects) notably obnoxious. There are two ways to win: either go to the additional trouble of making everyone able to set things up just as they like (and contemplate the possibility that this will be demanded for every ally buff ability), or categorize both groups as the sort of customers who are excessively difficult to please.
(Full disclosure: I don't consider either effect notably obnoxious and am frankly astounded by the level of distemper on display.) |
It is simply the fact that a dialog box was stupidly added in the first place that makes people expect it now. Had it never existed, there would be no reason to expect this power to be treated differently than every other power in the game.
While I personally don't mind all but one of the Fortunes, I don't like the sound effects everytime you zone and I could cheerfully shoot the idiots who cast them mid-battle.
Although I don't share the view, I do understand people who don't want Fortunes for concept reasons because they do last a very long time.
Generally I'm happy to be buffed with two exceptions:
1) Disruption Field - more a buff by default than a true but I find the rings a bit disconcerting
2) Speed Boost - I very rarely have any interest in this because ** for me ** the negatives outweight the positive
I do not understand why CoX has not yet implimented a system of buff prompts.
At the very least:
* Accept all buffs
* Decline all buffs
* Accept team buffs only
I understand that it would be too hard to have an entire list of buffs to be accepted to declined in the menu options; but couldn't the above be done?
I don't really understand the grumpyness about this; tolerate someone elses point of view and try and find the most satisfactory answer for all.
When power customization came out, I pretty much stopped playing melee because everyone's brilliant powers made it really hard to see. When I do power customization, I try to ensure people aren't going to get blinded and anything which has the potential to be annoying (EG Wormhole) or leaves me in danger (EG any nuke) is obvious.
SAVE CoX info:
Titan Network efforts
Saving CoX events/FB info
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I have a global channel with less than 90 active players, and at least five of us PREFER the prompt.|
Originally Posted by Chazzmatazz
On a Liberty global channel with over 90 active players last night, we had not ONE player state that they were pleased with the return to prompting. EVERYONE who stated an opinion on it preferred the prompt gone and were irritated with the prospect of its return. (Not a scientific sample)
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Yay, anecdotal evidence! \m/
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Originally Posted by Thug_Two
A good rule for teams: always cast MF on whomever is below you on the team list (first person if you are the last). Works quite well; when gathering by a mission door, someone calls 'fortune', everyone casts simultaneously, nobody gets missed
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And, I would just like to say, I'm amazed and disappointed at the number of posts basically saying "This doesn't annoy me, who cares about the people it does annoy." For shame.
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There's already one for "Prompt Team Teleport." Just add it there.|
Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
While I personally don't mind all but one of the Fortunes, I don't like the sound effects everytime you zone and I could cheerfully shoot the idiots who cast them mid-battle.
Although I don't share the view, I do understand people who don't want Fortunes for concept reasons because they do last a very long time. Generally I'm happy to be buffed with two exceptions: 1) Disruption Field - more a buff by default than a true but I find the rings a bit disconcerting 2) Speed Boost - I very rarely have any interest in this because ** for me ** the negatives outweight the positive I do not understand why CoX has not yet implimented a system of buff prompts. At the very least: * Accept all buffs * Decline all buffs * Accept team buffs only I understand that it would be too hard to have an entire list of buffs to be accepted to declined in the menu options; but couldn't the above be done? I don't really understand the grumpyness about this; tolerate someone elses point of view and try and find the most satisfactory answer for all. When power customization came out, I pretty much stopped playing melee because everyone's brilliant powers made it really hard to see. When I do power customization, I try to ensure people aren't going to get blinded and anything which has the potential to be annoying (EG Wormhole) or leaves me in danger (EG any nuke) is obvious. |
And give me my **** back.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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No, but there would still be griping from people who don't enjoy howling like madmen every time they zoned. It would just be directed at other people and other aspects of gameplay, and I can assure you that the notion of a prompt would have definitely surfaced at some point.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
It is simply the fact that a dialog box was stupidly added in the first place that makes people expect it now. Had it never existed, there would be no reason to expect this power to be treated differently than every other power in the game.
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Additionally, the notion of refusing or cancelling unsolicited buffs (i.e buffs from people not on your team) or buffs in general has existed for years, and while I may not always agree with people's reasons, I am very much a proponent for it. If a person wants to remove a buff from himself, he should be allowed to do so, Standard Code Rant notwithstanding.
To claim otherwise - that is to say, to claim that people who don't like buff should just deal with it - is no better than the running complaint that people who want the buff are hurting the people who don't want it. Any time you try to tell people to just deal with, that's not a good argument.
*edit*
Speaking of prompts, can we get the option to auto-accept resurrections? Yeah, self-contradiction, I know. But if I can ask for an option to auto-reject Mystic Fortune buffs, I should be able to ask for an option to auto-accept something else, shouldn't I?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I agree totally. Well...the resurrection thing is neither here nor there for me. But I agree with everything else.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
No, but there would still be griping from people who don't enjoy howling like madmen every time they zoned. It would just be directed at other people and other aspects of gameplay, and I can assure you that the notion of a prompt would have definitely surfaced at some point.
Additionally, the notion of refusing or cancelling unsolicited buffs (i.e buffs from people not on your team) or buffs in general has existed for years, and while I may not always agree with people's reasons, I am very much a proponent for it. If a person wants to remove a buff from himself, he should be allowed to do so, Standard Code Rant notwithstanding. To claim otherwise - that is to say, to claim that people who don't like buff should just deal with it - is no better than the running complaint that people who want the buff are hurting the people who don't want it. Any time you try to tell people to just deal with, that's not a good argument. *edit* Speaking of prompts, can we get the option to auto-accept resurrections? Yeah, self-contradiction, I know. But if I can ask for an option to auto-reject Mystic Fortune buffs, I should be able to ask for an option to auto-accept something else, shouldn't I? |
Ignore that first set of people.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)