Who interacts with the Mission Architect with consideration to its stories?
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2010-05-12 18:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I think that there does need to be some purging of the AE.
If I were in charge, I'd start announcing that the stories will be wiped in 90 days and for everyone to make sure they back up anything they want saved. I'd post that in several places on the forum, on the updater, and every 10 days in the global message of the day as a countdown with the last ten days counted down as well.
Then nuke it. Erase all of it and start fresh.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
I think a fairly consistent voice here is that people are having difficulty fully reaping the brain juices of the more effective story tellers amongst us (Of whom I humbly admit I am NOT one).
As an FYI, I started a thread several months ago regarding a new MA Layout suggestion I drew up. You're all welcome to review it here.
Ending thread jack... now.
I play MA for content. As someone who doesn't spend Merits, I'm not there for rewards.
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This is the biggest problem I have with the MA. I've wasted too much time trying to find something fun, and getting on a PUG team is easier and usually more fun to boot.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I believe there's a lot of fun arcs in the MA system. I have to take it on faith, though, because the rating and search tools make actually discovering most of them quite difficult.
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I rarely use MA these days.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Yesterday i played through a random 5 mission arc which had only 7 ratings i believe, it had a good solid storyline about the vanguard sword and a custom group joining forces.
Custom mobs looked excellent in both their design and power choices and the storyline/influence/tickets rate [was on a 50 so no xp] was also good 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Surely better to state that in x days (maybe x=90) all arcs that haven't been republished between now and then get wiped... and allow devs choice (or similarly locked missions) to be edited for the purposes of meeting current AE rules that may currently invalidate them.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
I think that there does need to be some purging of the AE.
If I were in charge, I'd start announcing that the stories will be wiped in 90 days and for everyone to make sure they back up anything they want saved. I'd post that in several places on the forum, on the updater, and every 10 days in the global message of the day as a countdown with the last ten days counted down as well. Then nuke it. Erase all of it and start fresh. |
The arcs people care about could be refreshed and suffer no interruption of service. The many farms that don't deliver anymore, tests and throwaway arcs would presumably be left un-republished and so be deleted.
At any rate everything would end up being legit by current AE publishing rules.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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You don't even need to unpublish anything. Just hide any arc that hasn't been updated/played in X days from the search.
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Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave
Surely better to state that in x days (maybe x=90) all arcs that haven't been republished between now and then get wiped... and allow devs choice (or similarly locked missions) to be edited for the purposes of meeting current AE rules that may currently invalidate them.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
If it were up to me, I would make three changes to the MA system.
First, I would ditch stars. The question you want the answer to when you ask a player to rate an arc is "did you like this?" "Three stars" is a very ambiguous answer to this question, and evaluating it depends on knowing what the player means by "three stars". A less ambiguous answer would be "Yes", "No", or "no opinion", and that's what the rating system should be built around. Also, people tend to just use stars as a proxy for "yes" or "no" anyway.
Second, I would make the default sort order by "hotness", this being a function of time since the arc was posted, time since the arc was last played, total number of plays, number of positive ratings, and number of negative ratings. Examples of these sort algorithms are available; the particulars should be tweaked to meet the needs of the MA. The goal is to keep good fresh content on the top of the list.
Finally, I would ditch DC/HoF as it currently functions. Any mechanism that requires that arcs be frozen against editing in a system that is frequently updated in a way that requires editing arcs to make them functional is simply not going to work. Instead, award authors a badge and a free arc slot for getting a certain number of positive ratings on an arc, but don't lock the arc, and don't stick it on top of the default listing forever.
There are other smaller changes I wouldn't mind seeing, such as the ability to send yourself or others an email with an arc number that functions as a direct link to the arc, for the purpose of saving/sharing good finds. But these three are the ones that I think are not just convenient but necessary. And frankly, this is one place where I'm genuinely angry with the devs for not doing their homework; it's not like nobody has ever tried to provide good fresh user-created content before.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
I go for the stories and have tried my hand at creating several. Unfortunately the current state makes it hard on all but the most dedicated MA people, and rough on them as well. Just the thought of spending the time to make an arc only to have it rendered broken by the next "fix" that was supposed to kill exploits makes it hardly worth the time.
This doesnt even begin to touch the problems of it not being team friendly because only the leader has any idea what is going on as no one else on the team can read the story. This is a PVE problem as well.
and then there is the whole looking for something new to play issue. I equate it to knowing someone just flushed a bunch of loose diamonds down my toilet and now I have to decide if it is worth the trouble to sift through the crap in the septic tank to find them...I know they're there, but ugh...
I had high hopes for this thing and just get more frustrated as time goes by.
The Revenants and Vengeance Imperium-Triumph, Champion & now flavoring Justice!
Tanker Tuesdays & Brutal Thursdays. If you like fun, look'em up!
Shhh! Rangle is plotting.
I use MA for stories, but the simple truth is, I also (would like to) use it for more...mechanical purposes as well. I figure if I'm not getting a good story out of it, I might as well be running paper missions. Unfortunately, good stories are hard to find and it seems like half the time I find something that sounds intriguing, I load it up to be that all-too-familiar Steel Canyon map and a farm that just happened to be disguised a bit better than the others. That's no fun.
However, it's also no fun to sift through the various haystacks of missions in order to find the occasional needle of quality and then not get anything else out of it, game-wise. A good story well rewards the effort of reading that story, but I need something beyond that to justify the rather considerable effort it can take to find a good story.
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Part of the problem is that they looked like they might be diamonds when you saw them get flushed from 50 feet away... |
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
and then there is the whole looking for something new to play issue. I equate it to knowing someone just flushed a bunch of loose diamonds down my toilet and now I have to decide if it is worth the trouble to sift through the crap in the septic tank to find them...I know they're there, but ugh...
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If you knew they were diamonds you could manage to search but knowing that they may just be glass or paste makes the expected payoff less worthwhile.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
When im in the AE i play for the story..why else
I like the comedy stuff as a break to the regular game content.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
New Question: Why does everyone keep referring to the "Comedy" arcs? Are there a surplus? Are they actually funny?
Again, as someone who hasn't had more than a couple hours a month to play the game for most of '10, I lack personal perspective. Hoping to gain some soon.
Edit: Oh, and my hidden agenda is relatively blatant: I'm trying to generate a thread that both stimulates conversation and is easily harvested by Red Names for feedback.
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I don't think there are a lot of them and most really aren't that funny but at this time I seek a break from standard content which I have pretty well been there and done that. |
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
New Question: Why does everyone keep referring to the "Comedy" arcs? Are there a surplus? Are they actually funny?
Again, as someone who hasn't had more than a couple hours a month to play the game for most of '10, I lack personal perspective. Hoping to gain some soon. Edit: Oh, and my hidden agenda is relatively blatant: I'm trying to generate a thread that both stimulates conversation and is easily harvested by Red Names for feedback. |
I would compare it this way. Say there are a billion television programs of a serious crime drama nature (I know it is probably only 30 or so) but one of them was pretty funny. Let's call it "Monk".
I am going to go out of my way to catch Monk but the 50 CSI, NCIS, L&O, etc. shows I am completely unmotivated to seek out. Even moreso when only one channel shows Monk on only 2 nights a week but those other shows and their variants are on several times a day every single day and I have just by having my TV on seen most of them.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I've gotten good feedback on my humor "arc" but it's only one mission long so it doesn't beat the joke to death. Brevity is the soul of wit and all that.|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
New Question: Why does everyone keep referring to the "Comedy" arcs? Are there a surplus? Are they actually funny?
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I think too often you find arcs that are amusing to start but are less funny by Mission #4. Or aren't all that amusing to start with so are just kind of a grind since more effort was put into the 'jokes' than story, challenge, interesting mobs, etc.
When I visit the AE it's to nearly always to earn tickets for invention salvage that is overpriced on the auction house. I read enough of the description to find an arc without any custom mobs or AVs in and don't really give a crap about the story.
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There's an overabundance of arcs intended to be funny, yeah. Most of them don't have any thought put into them beyond making a single 'funny' custom enemy (lol it's monkeys with guns u guyz) and then making you fight thousands of them. Another chunk are legitimately a bit funny and have actual plots, but clash rather horribly with the game's own themes and such, and then there are a handful that are both funny and appropriate for the game.
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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
New Question: Why does everyone keep referring to the "Comedy" arcs? Are there a surplus? Are they actually funny?
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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I've stopped playing the AE for the following reasons:|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
If you interact with the Mission Architect primarily because of its story capabilities, what are your current thoughts on it? Are you bored with it because you've played all the good stories? Happy with it because the stories are endless? Do you get a fair rotation of players?
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- It's too hard to find quality arcs. The rating system is totally useless, and the system is loaded with garbage and farms. Dev's Choice is nice, though the uneditable nature of the setting results in the older Dev's Choice arcs often being buggy. I could spend time in the Stories forum, but it's hard to find out if an arc is good or not without getting plot spoilers.
- Due to its quasi-TF nature, I can't start an AE arc, get a few missions in, stop and join my friends for a while when they get on, then go back to the arc, like I can with canon arcs. If I start an AE arc, I have to finish it or abandon it with that character. This is actually the same reason that I'm not getting a lot of use out of Ouroboros
- As someone who likes the AE for the story aspect, the setting breaks my immersion. I want my characters to be fighting or perpetrating crime, not playing video games. I actually want to travel to another area of the zone to get to the next mission; it makes me feel like the story is actually taking place in the world. Meanwhile, I'm sure most farmers and powerlevelers don't care at all about the setting, and love that they have zero travel time between missions. If the Mission Architect is supposed to be focused on stories, then the AE was conceptually designed for the wrong group. I know that the purpose of this decision was to make it clear to players what was a dev-created arc, and what was player-created, but instead of just making it clear to players (which would be done through UI design, perhaps with a tab labeled "player content" under "contacts" and/or "missions"), it was also made clear to characters (done through lore, the buildings, and NPC dialogue)
I've stopped creating arcs for the AE for the following reasons:
- Bugs-- two of my current arcs intermittently will have objectives not spawn. There doesn't seem to be any way to predict whether it will happen, and nothing I've tried has fixed it. Some features don't work they way they are supposed to (for example, allies that are supposed to do "nothing" when rescued, will revert to "follow" if you lose them and then return).
- Patches that frequently require updates-- I've had to fix my arcs many times after patches, either due to introduced bugs, costume parts that have been made invalid, or balance changes that require me to adjust my mobs and objectives so they give a noticeable amount of XP (I would like people to play my arcs, after all). The more arcs I make, the more time I would have to spend on this.
- The text editor-- Okay, I've never written a text editor before, so forgive me if I'm expecting a lot, but I've never encountered a text editor that was so simple, yet so buggy. Sometimes I'll type and nothing will appear, only to have it appear later after moving the cursor. Sometimes typing wraps to a new line, and sometimes it invisibly continues on the same line. Also, HTML counts against the character limit, making it difficult for me to use the contextual coloring as much as canon arcs do.
- The rating system-- from a creator's standpoint, it's frustrating to get a comment about having a good arc, and get 3 stars. I know 3 stars can be viewed as a good rating for many-- I view a 3 star rating from a critic about a movie as a good rating, usually. But if Ebert gives Iron Man 2 a 3 star rating, that doesn't make it hard for people to notice that Iron Man 2 exists due to thousands of other movies are on the theater's list, with 50% of them being 4-5 starred, including movies shot in someone's backyard with a camcorder.
- The loads upon loads of garbage in the system-- Farms and test arcs need to be removed or somehow separated so storytellers can get their arcs played by people who want to play story focused arcs. I'd be fine with having to republish or whatever it would take to do this, as long as I'm not going to lose ratings by doing so (unless they overhaul the rating system to make this be less of an issue).
That's all I can think of for now.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
There's a moonbase one that is pretty funny. I think maybe Ascendant did it? Or did he do another one that was kinda funny. I forget. It all blurs together.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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On this one, at least, I've found that it helps to limit your search to only arcs in the completed category (I can't remember exactly what it's called, and I can't access the game at the moment, but it's the ones explicitly flagged as being ready for play.) That category isn't the default when you publish an arc, so I find that there's a relatively high percentage of actual arcs in there as opposed to farms and test junk.
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Originally Posted by Liquid
Farms and test arcs need to be removed or somehow separated so storytellers can get their arcs played by people who want to play story focused arcs.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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The laser moonbase one was by Twoflower, I believe. By Ascendant, you're probably thinking of his Saul taskforce arc. Both good examples of actually funny arcs, though both also a bit too over-the-top for my tastes on any relatively serious character.
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
There's a moonbase one that is pretty funny. I think maybe Ascendant did it? Or did he do another one that was kinda funny. I forget. It all blurs together.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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I've never written a text editor either, and you're not expecting a lot, because text editors already exist. I would never write a text editor when someone else has already done the job for me better than I could do it myself, and put it in a library that I can use. "Roll your own" is always a last resort.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
The text editor-- Okay, I've never written a text editor before, so forgive me if I'm expecting a lot, but I've never encountered a text editor that was so simple, yet so buggy.
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As for your other issues, I think you might want to read my suggestions upthread. Perhaps I should make a new thread in S&I for them. On the other hand S&I is where ideas go to die.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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And as of I17 it joins the ranks of DC/HOF arcs that don't work, to the dismay of all concerned.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
The laser moonbase one was by Twoflower, I believe.
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@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
I spent a while playing AE arcs and enjoying the stories. Then I decided to chase the Leader badge on my original alt, and since playing in the AE nets you no inf on the badge tracker, I stopped.
I've not really been back since, because every time I start an interesting looking arc, something comes up and the toon that's on the arc is needed elsewhere to help some friends out, so I end up abandoning the arc.
Like quite a few of the old timers, I have a deep, ingrained abhorrence of farming/PLing. I've never been involved in any AE farms or exploits, and know of them only through the forums.
All of this means I don't really have a sensible view on the current state of the AE. I'm not quite sure why I'm bothering to post this, really.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
First up, you mentioned Bunnicula which is all sorts of awesome. Anyways...
If you interact with the Mission Architect primarily because of its story capabilities, what are your current thoughts on it? Are you bored with it because you've played all the good stories? Happy with it because the stories are endless? Do you get a fair rotation of players?
It seems broken record-ish but the system needs a better search engine. It would make finding arcs to play easier and would allow you to avoid things you dislike. I don't do it as much as I used to but it can be fun to do a semi-random search and see what arcs you find. Nowadays I almost exclusively play arcs from suggestions/recommendations but it's disheartening to think of the people being ignored and how that affects you too.
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Mission Architect Handyman