Who interacts with the Mission Architect with consideration to its stories?
Yep, I realise this is there. But how many others do, or bother to use it? The in-your-face dialog box from the contact that pops-up is what I'm talking about.
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I like the stories, don't give a crap about xp or tickets except for Virtual Lad, who is leveling from 1-50 there the normal way (his mom won't let him fight real criminals...he's only 12! ).
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A lot of the replies in this thread just confirm my belief that the Extreme setting should be taken out back somewhere and shot, chopped into pieces, boiled in oil, set on fire and thrown into a black hole. Why do so many people use it? Does the X make it sound cool?
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
- Any mission not marked as "Final" disappears after 30 days of a (re)publish
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So the arc plays just fine but I can't change it to finished due to the buggy editor and refuse to spend the time/effort rewriting entire sections just to have it languish in 4-star limbo forever.
If you play with a group of RL friends that are all Defenders, it's not hard to be playing in an environment where you are buffed constantly to the cap while all of your foes are debuffed to the floor. So non-purple-patch foes have like a 5% chance to hit you for 10% damage while you are hitting them 95% of the time for x4 damage.
For these people, Extreme settings at max difficulty are the closest the game gets to mechanically challenging. So these people create AV farms in the AE and run "Master of..." challenges and trials all the time.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
My feelings are similar to Sam's, though I do like humor if it's done subtly (I have to admit I'm not really into the LOLBAT deal; otoh, the arc I did with the custom faction with little guys dressed as billiard balls I did get a kick out of).
From the creative standpoint, I made an arc right out of the gate that tried to play off of existing lore, expanded upon that with an offshoot custom group, and had an EB battle at the end (with the option of a helper). Nothing out-of-the-ordinary (even with the EB, it was an arc geared to 40+, and an EB in an arc is pretty standard at that point). I tried to make the narrative make sense, I tried to keep the format clean and I tried to use good grammar/spelling/punctuation. It's not particularly tricky or clever, but I thought it solid enough. It got four ratings, settled in at four stars. I haven't checked lately, but last I did it still had just those four ratings. Would it be nice if others saw it? Sure, but I'm not going to pander for folks to play it (who probably wouldn't like it anyway). At least I still have fun playing it from time to time.
As for other arcs, I'll play them sometime but it's a mixed bag. Most stories aren't really tied to CoH. Some have great custom factions, but don't have a story that makes any sense. Many are painful to read from a grammar standpoint. Some are just nigh-on-impossible.
So, I'll stick to what I know largely - non-AE content. If I need tickets to outright buy salvage or to roll some recipes, I'll play my own arc.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Speaking of, I went to flag an arc I have as "finished" and when I went to edit it, it was riddled with red flags for HTML "errors". But I couldn't adjust them (it was crabbing because I had the font size set at times to 0.8 and it said the minimum range was 0.8... go figure) because of the charming CoX text editor bug where hitting delete adds another five characters to your count and I was already showing as being over the limit.
So the arc plays just fine but I can't change it to finished due to the buggy editor and refuse to spend the time/effort rewriting entire sections just to have it languish in 4-star limbo forever. |
If you play with a group of RL friends that are all Defenders, it's not hard to be playing in an environment where you are buffed constantly to the cap while all of your foes are debuffed to the floor. So non-purple-patch foes have like a 5% chance to hit you for 10% damage while you are hitting them 95% of the time for x4 damage.
For these people, Extreme settings at max difficulty are the closest the game gets to mechanically challenging. So these people create AV farms in the AE and run "Master of..." challenges and trials all the time. |
What is the difference between choosing "custom" and giving the enemy all the powers and just choosing "Extreme"? One requires a deliberate decision, the other requires a click of a button. One is more n00b-friendly than the other.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
A lot of the replies in this thread just confirm my belief that the Extreme setting should be taken out back somewhere and shot, chopped into pieces, boiled in oil, set on fire and thrown into a black hole. Why do so many people use it? Does the X make it sound cool?
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Plus...it's easy. "Okay this is my final boss so he needs to be harder than everyone else. Hey, I can make him Extreme! These powersets sound cool... Done!" Then they'll jump on something with high defense that can AFK when they test (if they even test...) and figure it's fine and dandy.
And XP is important. It shouldn't be but it's well known that people will quit an arc that gives low rewards.
My supergroup, which interacts in-character the majority of the time, uses the architect as a way to create interactive story threads. And since there is near-limitless capacity in the human mind to create meaningful plots, we can't get enough of it!
If I had one wish to improve the architect it would be to improve the interactivity of the NPCs, allowing branching dialog options and fights taking place depending on the choices a player makes.
I agree with Sam also about humor and about difficulty. I find other people's humor to be on a different wavelength than my own. I also hate painfully difficult fights. If I can't roll your mission with a generic-IO empathy/electric defender on +1, then I'm quitting it. If my Earth/Empathy character can't actually get through the mez protection on anything and/or he can't complete it, then I'm going to knock off a point on my rating. That's just the way it is.
Also, while I had never thought about it, I can see Sam's point about "you think" and "you feel". I need to go check my missions and remove those, if I have any (I don't think I do). I might leave in "you think" when referring to the senses, such as "you think you saw a flicker of movement as you came in the door" but otherwise I'm going to make the effort to remove mine.
Anyway, my missions are "kinda" story-based and "kinda" reward-based, in other words for farming. Well, its no more farming than doing door missions in PI, because I use only generic canon foes to tell my stories, so the drop rates and experience point rates are totally in line with what you'd see in a normal door mission. So, I only call it farming in the sense that I run my own missions over and over and over. There are certain foe types I really like (CoT, for example) and certain maps I really like (certain office space layouts, some outdoor layouts). I hate having to zone (or abandon mission) to get the ones I like and avoid the ones I can't stand, so I made a bunch of equivalents to PI door maps and foes, but only the ones I like. I also really love the tedious COT temple/cave/teleporter maps so I use those a lot. THEN, I wrap a bit of story around those. Not much, just a little. I have a mercenary little Necro/Thief chick who has morally grey missions that are phrased in such a way that heroes or villains could do them. When my heroes do them, I always feel a little worried that she is using me, and when my villains are doing them, she and I share a knowing wink.
I've only just started wrapping these light bits of story around my missions so its in the process of transformation right now. I only have 1 map with custom critters, so I need to go see what the changes have done to them (they are all Willpower/Dark blasters and Willpower/Dark Melee scrappers). I havent run the mission since the recent changes to the AE critters and reward rates. But my other missions (across all 3 accounts) are all against generic villains only. I have no problem using canon foes for stories, and its nice to know that my reward expectations on them are baseline so that I don't have to tweak much when changes are made to the AE, and I don't have to worry about nerfs.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
You can go over the limit with HTML tags if you add them after you type in all the text. I'm not sure what your specific issue is (I've never changed the font size, but apparently the 0.8 font size is problematic. I've also never had a problem with deleting anything even in text fields that were over the limit.), but it sounds like you'd just have to redo your HTML.
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Arguably, it's probably rewards. It's harder (but not impossible) to make a difficult enemy give XP than an easy one.
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I actually think I17 might have made this worse for some powersets if the arc is designed for lvl 40-50 due to the way it scales XP per power added. |
Plus...it's easy. "Okay this is my final boss so he needs to be harder than everyone else. Hey, I can make him Extreme! These powersets sound cool... Done!" Then they'll jump on something with high defense that can AFK when they test (if they even test...) and figure it's fine and dandy. |
As for testing with something with high defense....if by defense you mean "not getting hit"....HAHAHAHAHAHA. Aim and Build Up on Hard pretty much negates that kind of defense. If you mean defensive powersets in general, some of these custom BOSSES hit harder and faster and more often than dev-created Archvillains. I only wish I were kidding.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Eva Destruction approves of Virtual Lad: That is an awesome concept for an AE toon. |
Dec out.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
I wonder to what extent they have considered giving critters AT mods and/or Inherents.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Also, while I had never thought about it, I can see Sam's point about "you think" and "you feel". I need to go check my missions and remove those, if I have any (I don't think I do). I might leave in "you think" when referring to the senses, such as "you think you saw a flicker of movement as you came in the door" but otherwise I'm going to make the effort to remove mine.
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For my arc, I tried to keep the narrative guidance down to common sense decisions. Things like "doesn't hurt to try," "you might as well" "that seems like a good idea." I generally try to let the narrative give a vague appraisal of the situation, painting the intended course of action as the most reasonable one, but without actually explaining why the character chooses it. Players can then pick if they do it because it really does make sense, or whether for whatever other reason they can think of. It's not always easy to work around this, but it's rewarding in the end.
Again, developer-made content has a LOT of these, and they bug me every time. Say, "It smells like Hellions. You HATE the smell of Hellions!" Um, no I don't. They smell like popcorn. Why couldn't you have said "Don't you hate the smell of Hellions?" instead, guys? I mean, it says basically the same thing, but it presumes a LOT less. Doesn't it, now?
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think you might have this backwards...unless you mean it's harder to make an enemy that is difficult to make give full rewards.
The Hard setting gives 100% XP, and with the new sliders everyone can tell. Of course it also includes some powers that more rightly belong on Extreme, but anyway... Yes, this is exactly why that setting should be removed. It's too easy to do that. As for testing with something with high defense....if by defense you mean "not getting hit"....HAHAHAHAHAHA. Aim and Build Up on Hard pretty much negates that kind of defense. If you mean defensive powersets in general, some of these custom BOSSES hit harder and faster and more often than dev-created Archvillains. I only wish I were kidding. |
I TRIED giving it ANOTHER (despite my continued disgust with how the last UNTESTED AE patch was rushed to live without giving authors a chance to vet it) fair shake the other day, and went on searching for something to play, ACTIVELY AVOIDING anything that listed "Archvillan, Extreme" and "Ally" (forget what the exact wording is), etc., for obvious reasons.
I tired 2-3 and quit before the first mission was over due to a combination of asinine story and lackluster rewards.
Then after spending 20-30 minutes doing a similar search and seeing constant mentions about Extreme Bosses and Archivllains, I gave up and went back to regular newspaper missions.
I'll check back on AE in issue 25 or so when the systems, missions, search engine, and rating system are all actually usable.
EDIT: I've played just about all the highly rated stuff mentioned on the forums. IMO, 1/2 didn't deserve the ratings they got. With that being true for less of the Dev's Choice stuff.
And none of it is compelling enough to repeat. Again.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
From the creative standpoint, I made an arc right out of the gate that tried to play off of existing lore, expanded upon that with an offshoot custom group, and had an EB battle at the end (with the option of a helper). Nothing out-of-the-ordinary (even with the EB, it was an arc geared to 40+, and an EB in an arc is pretty standard at that point). I tried to make the narrative make sense, I tried to keep the format clean and I tried to use good grammar/spelling/punctuation. It's not particularly tricky or clever, but I thought it solid enough. It got four ratings, settled in at four stars. I haven't checked lately, but last I did it still had just those four ratings. Would it be nice if others saw it? Sure, but I'm not going to pander for folks to play it (who probably wouldn't like it anyway). At least I still have fun playing it from time to time.
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I enjoy replaying my own arcs as much as the next guy... Once they're already made. Making them, however, is hard work, and if I'll be making them just for myself, then I'd rather just not bother and simply write it down as my own fiction, which incidentally no-one ever reads, either I know it's kind of the name of the game, but it's simply demoralising, and it basically kills whatever motivation I may have once had to make arcs.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I wonder to what extent they have considered giving critters AT mods and/or Inherents.
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Yeah, "you think" and "you feel" are probably my biggest turnoffs in any story arc. I can deal with bad writing, but as soon as I see either of those, I just roll my eyes, specifically because they are never ever necessary. I've never met an instance where they can't be replaced with an equal-meaning, less-assuming alternative. Though, granted, "you think you saw" ought to be acceptable. I'd still avoid it, though, going with something along the lines of "Wasn't that a...?"
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As for "You think," you don't need to tell me that either. Your dialogue and clues should be clear enough that I, and therefore my character, can draw any needed conclusions on my own. If you need to describe something in a clue or pop-up, it's better to use "maybe" or "probably" than "you think."
Again, developer-made content has a LOT of these, and they bug me every time. Say, "It smells like Hellions. You HATE the smell of Hellions!" Um, no I don't. They smell like popcorn. Why couldn't you have said "Don't you hate the smell of Hellions?" instead, guys? I mean, it says basically the same thing, but it presumes a LOT less. Doesn't it, now? |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
You know, what really bugs me, and I'm only going to say this once because I feel bringing it up is out of line to begin with, is that I actually got Developer's Choice for my arc on Test, but when we moved over to Live, it wasn't re-selected. No big, they apparently had to cut down on the Developer's Choice arcs at the start, but here's the thing - just in the few short weeks it was on Test, the arc got more playthroughs as Developer's Choice than it's had since I14 went Live.
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Even without being DC, arcs that get played on Test don't seem to get those plays carried over to Live where the ratings actually matter. I know it's not automatic (it shouldn't be) but would it kill the players to stick their heads back into the Live version if they liked the Test version?
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I think the issue is the folks playing on test are probably doing so to find bugs.
Those people may not be actually interested in playing it for fun, but to help out in beta.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Closed beta is but not open. However, Test server has one distinct advantage and that's the fact that there's a smaller volume to look through.
Even without being DC, arcs that get played on Test don't seem to get those plays carried over to Live where the ratings actually matter. I know it's not automatic (it shouldn't be) but would it kill the players to stick their heads back into the Live version if they liked the Test version?
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My beef is that arcs that aren't tagged as DC have a snowball's chance in hell of getting played, and I don't believe that's a problem which can be solved with ANY application of technology.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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As I understood it, back then Developer's Choice status was handed much more freely by many people (I got mine tagged by Ghost Falcon), but when it came to Live, I believe it was either Positron or him and a couple of others who tagged the Live DC arcs, and mine wasn't the only one that didn't transfer over. .
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I do like seeing well-designed custom groups. Ones that have decent difficulty balance, that make sense in context of the story, and aren't just overall silly (unless that is the point, like with Vanden's arc "The Extadine Lab"). I like seeing something different other than yet more Freakshow or another friggin' Nemesis plot.
Replying to the OP:
I play my own stories on nearly every character I level past the 20's, which is about the right difficulty spot for my arcs. I've actually done all my arcs on a few characters recently, rather than just a couple per character, because the arcs' rewards have been so reduced by changes to AE. While I primarily play them as a change of pace and where thematically appropriate (using my Legacy Chain arc for magic wielders, for instance), I also use them as a means of getting through the higher levels of the game without having to do, say, Cadao Kestrel's arc for the 50th time.
I still working on writing AE stories for my own amusement, though I may never publish another. This is because of a phenomenon I mentioned in i16 beta, when AE rewards took their first significant hit, that I refer to as "artist and entertainer." Any creator of fiction, including AE arcs, does so for two reasons. As an artist, he creates them for the pure fun of making them, drawing fulfillment from the act of creation. As an entertainer, the writer gets fulfillment from having the work appreciated, enjoyed, and praised by others. (I didn't come up with this idea; I swiped it from an article by literary agent Ethan Ellenberg, which you can find by searching for his website.)
Right now, AE does an adequate, though not perfect, job of satisfying me as an artist. I can control the story and characters in a wide variety of ways, and I have a good array of choices when constructing an arc. Yes, there could always be more maps available or fancier mission technology, such as the oft-demanded ability to place a spawn at a specific point. Still, I feel that what we have is adequate. (I may be a bit more easygoing about this than some others because I like to save my most creative ideas for non-City of Heroes projects.)
However, AE does a terrible job of satisfying me and, I'm willing to venture, most other arc authors, as entertainers. Even with constant promotion, it's difficult to get arcs played by large portions of the AE community, let alone the game community as a whole. It's even harder to get a handle on an unplayed arc's quality. As this thread shows, people have different standards for what makes an entertaining arc. This results in widely varying ratings scales; many AE community members won't rate an arc with five stars unless it waxes their cars and does their tax returns while reading like a combination of Anna Karenina and that Mass Effect game everyone seems to love. This causes wild variation with the four-star rating, which in turn leads to what a lot of authors call the "four-star ghetto." (This is especially problematic if you yourself feel that four stars is about the right rating for an arc; even though that puts it in the top half of the ratings, it also means no one will ever see it.) The prevalence of farms, many now nonfunctional, and arcs broken by patches exacerbates the problem. Even Dev's Choice arcs aren't immune to the problem; I've been unable to play a favorite of mine for more than six months because its second mission has somehow become irreparably bugged. Finally, reductions in AE rewards drive away large numbers of potential arc players. The best authors can do to combat all these forces is to write an appropriate arc title and a description that determined searchers can find with the still-clumsy arc search feature. All in all, it's just too difficult for an arc to reach its ideal audience for the AE to serve an author's goals as an entertainer rather than an artist.
In this connection, I'd also like to mention that the AE community has really soured me on the entire feature. While there are some nice, helpful people there, I've generally had bad experiences with it.
"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"
Djinniman, level 50 inv/fire tanker, on Victory
-and 40 others on various servers
A CoH Comic: Kid Eros in "One Light"
I used it for the stories quite a bit, but I've cut back on that lately mostly for reasons unrelated to the AE itself.
1) I have had shorter blocks of time to play, and when I do play, I am subject to interruptions both real-world and from in-game friends, making following a dedicated storyline tougher
2) I've been pulling old, pre-Invention characters out of retirement and rebuilding them with IO sets. This takes an amazing amount of time for some reason. I have finally made enough money to proceed with the shopping, but I'm too cheap to pay the "buy it nao" prices and so I bargain hunt and pore over the lists and lay trap bids that sometimes take weeks to fill if they fill at all. I've stopped buying rare salvage too, at least the ones that have spiked to over 3 million, and I do use Architect to generate tickets for those.
My loading screens are long, and they're even worse with I-17. While this doesn't impact AE specifically, it does mean that the process of checking market/checking vault/using base crafting table/tossing in base racks/loging out/logging in new character/zoning into base/ checking base racks/getting item/slotting item/zoning out of base takes a shocking amount of real-life time, sadly. Sometimes I get a tell from a friend and abandon the process to go play, meaning it sometimes takes me two or three evenings to craft and transfer a recipe.
3) I've started playing a lot more "hardcore" mode, where we delete our characters if defeated. Unknown AE missions are ridiculously dangerous for hardcore characters, and I'm not taking them in there. I've seen big ambush groups of bosses with Headsplitter, resistance debuffs, and Build Up running around in those things. *shudder*
I plan to go back to "creative" AE missions sooner or later, just being pulled in different directions right now.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog