Live Patch Notes - 5/12/10
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2010-05-12 10:47 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Well, it worked in pokemon . . .
| From a game mechanic standpoint there's no such things as electric powers as an attack type, so enemies can't specifically be resistant to "electrical powers". An enemy's resistance/protection to being immobilized has nothing to do with any of the other effects or the name of the immobilizing power. |
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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He misjudged a situation, namely the effect his bug fix would have on the LGTF hamidon. That's called a mistake. |
Originally Posted by PC_guy
it wasn't a mistake though, it was on purpose. and we've been waiting on a fix for close to 2 weeks now. (and still going since i haven't seen a patch yet).
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In any case the fix is there. Castle already said so. It's coming. What more do you want? That he waves a wand and make it magically appear on the live servers?
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| and this. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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The LGTF needs 8 people to start it. Finishable by 6 would be nice but technically 8 players should be the minimum. |
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
But that is a 50 person encounter.
The TF has to be finishable by 6, including teams with low control. Even 10 is probably much too high unless some alternate approach is added. This is why the original borking of the TF happened. The design intent is to require holds because Hami is supposed to involve lots of ATs. That design intent is totally inappropriate to a TF. |
FWIW, the Cavern of Transcendence trial needs 8 players to simultaneously click glowies but it is generally a much faster trial, although I remember the first time I did it years ago we finished with 30 seconds to spare (a 90 minute time limit). >.>
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Originally Posted by Avatea
Auction House
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This would be nice and all if the Auction House actually worked...
Setting aside the atrocious appearance (the greyscale background makes it look like it's not even a window from this game, and doesn't offer sufficient contrast with the off-white text) and the inherently confusing interface (having things shunted to tabs I can't see doesn't in any way help me keep track of what I'm doing, especially when the chance of a transaction actually staying active seems to be 1 in 10), the inability of the interface to actually accept a transaction without self-cancelling it is almost as frustrating as catastrophic lag. Even worse, because the interface shunts "bidding" transactions into the "bought" tab, even if a bid does stick, if it goes through and I buy something, it just looks like it self-cancelled again, leaving me clicking the bid button again, and increasing the possibility of making multiple purchases when I only want 1 ([i]maybe not always a big deal, but when you accidentally buy 5-6 extra Hamidon Goos at 3 mil a pop, it can get a bit wasteful[i]).
Words cannot adequately express my consternation while trying (and usually failing) to use the so-called new and improved Auction House interface. The old one may not have had as many snazzy gadjets and gizmos and doodads, but at least it usually worked.
/e frustrated
/e batsmash
/powexec_name Whirlwind
/e Tazmanian Devil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as3JMPx4FIU
Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
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This. |
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
You can bag on Castle for that as a representative of the company, but to blame him for the structural/managerial failings of the system is a bit of a stretch.
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I personally feel that devs should never interact with the general public. There should be a public rep doing all the talking and going in between. Putting devs out in the field after unpleasant changes is just going to subject them to unnecessary abuse.
fortunately for us, Castle is made of awesome so he can take the heat.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Originally Posted by NordBlast
He nets nerf to LGTF (10 mag hold protection for green mitos)
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this seems to be a special case..a bug that stopped us from seeing a problem that would have been changed in beta if it had been seen at the time. While I will fault castle for some things(overnerf of em for ex.) this doesnt seem like that. Of course this does point out the problem of beta testers not knowing what to test..due to a poor change process. Thats a management problem..not castles job. (and it affects a lot more than just the game industry)
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
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[QUOTE=Avatea;2860226]Patch notes for build 1800.201003300904.20T5r.
City Zones
- Midnighter Club - Fixed a bug that sometimes caused characters to get stuck in the ground when moving between the Midnighter Club and Cimerora.
This isn't fixed. I just went to Cimerora and was still stuck in the floor. I have tried this with multiple toons and have had the same problem.
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I can confirm this. Workaround: turn off travel powers and jump backwards while stuck|
Originally Posted by RoseT
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
From a game mechanic standpoint there's no such things as electric powers as an attack type, so enemies can't specifically be resistant to "electrical powers". An enemy's resistance/protection to being immobilized has nothing to do with any of the other effects or the name of the immobilizing power.
If an enemy resists a type of mez effect or damage it doesn't matter what the name of the set or power it came from might be. |
Auction House
- If the MAKE OFFER and POST are disabled due to too much activity, you will no longer be spammed with a huge number of announcements telling you about it.
- If the MAKE OFFER and POST are disabled due to too much activity, the buttons will become active again after a short time as they are supposed to, instead of remaining greyed out until the player logs out and logs back in again.
This is the only bug I ever experienced with the auction house, and was so happy with when they fixed it. I love how the new one looks, it looks like every window on the game for me, since I gray scale everything. I can now do my selling and buying twice or 3 times as fast. All around, it's just simply amazing. I love this upgrade to the interface, and glad they fixed this one small problem I had.
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I am not sure that I can understand your problem with the Market since this fix came out except for the appearance. Maybe the design methods too if you want to talk about all the Tabs and such, but the market has been working great for me overall. Actually, I have been having less trouble with this new market than I had with the old one which would seem to choke up at least once every time I tried to use it.|
Originally Posted by Starhammer
[/LIST]
This would be nice and all if the Auction House actually worked... Setting aside the atrocious appearance (the greyscale background makes it look like it's not even a window from this game, and doesn't offer sufficient contrast with the off-white text) and the inherently confusing interface (having things shunted to tabs I can't see doesn't in any way help me keep track of what I'm doing, especially when the chance of a transaction actually staying active seems to be 1 in 10), the inability of the interface to actually accept a transaction without self-cancelling it is almost as frustrating as catastrophic lag. Even worse, because the interface shunts "bidding" transactions into the "bought" tab, even if a bid does stick, if it goes through and I buy something, it just looks like it self-cancelled again, leaving me clicking the bid button again, and increasing the possibility of making multiple purchases when I only want 1 ([i]maybe not always a big deal, but when you accidentally buy 5-6 extra Hamidon Goos at 3 mil a pop, it can get a bit wasteful[i]). Words cannot adequately express my consternation while trying (and usually failing) to use the so-called new and improved Auction House interface. The old one may not have had as many snazzy gadjets and gizmos and doodads, but at least it usually worked. /e frustrated /e batsmash /powexec_name Whirlwind /e Tazmanian Devil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as3JMPx4FIU |
The one querk I have found is that there is a delay on the bidding part, but that just means I need to be more patient when i bid. My new general rule is count to 15 before I cancel a bid and then to 5 before I submit a new one.
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Not unless the power also specifically grants Protection or Resistance to those effects. Damage Resistance, regardless of what type it is, just Resists that type of damage and Resistance Debuffs and that's it. The only Stone Armor powers that grant Status Protection/Resistance are Rooted and Granite Armor.
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Originally Posted by Mattwo7
So if a troll has a shield to resist elec/enrg/w.e damage it won't affect the mezz/hold/sleep?
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Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
[QUOTE=RoseT;2869511]
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Same.
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Originally Posted by Avatea
Patch notes for build 1800.201003300904.20T5r.
City Zones
This isn't fixed. I just went to Cimerora and was still stuck in the floor. I have tried this with multiple toons and have had the same problem. |
Please buff Ice Control.
Patch notes for build 1800.201003300904.20T5r.
City Zones
* Midnighter Club - Fixed a bug that sometimes caused characters to get stuck in the ground when moving between the Midnighter Club and Cimerora.
Joining in the choir saying this is not fixed. And the lag is causing me to get map served or my FPS that was over a week ago about 30fps to go down to 10fps or lower during RWZ MS raids or just running missions.
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Originally Posted by Mattwo7
So if a troll has a shield to resist elec/enrg/w.e damage it won't affect the mezz/hold/sleep?
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Originally Posted by Kosmos
Not unless the power also specifically grants Protection or Resistance to those effects. Damage Resistance, regardless of what type it is, just Resists that type of damage and Resistance Debuffs and that's it. The only Stone Armor powers that grant Status Protection/Resistance are Rooted and Granite Armor.
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There is no such thing as an electrical damage type. Most electrical attacks do energy damage and some also do smashing damage.
Status effect resistance (which reduces duration, and in some cases magnitude) and protection (which prevents the status effect from having any effect unless the effects magnitude is greater than the protection) have nothing to do with damage.
If you or an enemy has a magnitude 3 protection from immobilize effects and 100% resistance an immobilize will have no effect unless its magnitude is greater than 3 and the effect will will be removed in half the time it would have been with no resistance.
It doesn't matter whether the power doing the immobilize is electric fences or stone cages, if an attack applies an immobilize effect to a target only the magnitude and duration of the immobilize attack and any resistance or protection from immobilize the target has are relevant.
This is of course assuming that the attack hits. Defense will prevent an attack from hitting, but again there is no such thing as an electrical type of attack for defense or resistance purposes.
There are 10 attack types for defense purposes that are divided into two groups:
Positional types: Melee, Ranged, AoE (Area of Effect). [3]
Delivery types: Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Psionic. [7]
There are no other defense types, and due to the way the game systems were coded more cannot currently be added. (Which was quite annoying for the Devs when they added Toxic damage shortly after launch. They could add resistance to reduce the damage done by Toxic attacks, but not a Toxic defense tag.)
There are currently 11 known damage types. Damage removes hit points and that's all it does. The types are only really relevant for determining whether damage resistance will reduce the damage done by the attack. Electrical is not one of the 11 types.
Follow some of the above links for the relevant Paragon Wiki entries if you want more details on how that sort of stuff works. Or just take my word for it.
(i do not seriously suggest taking my word for it without confirmation, but i won't stop you if you do. 
)
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Wanna bet? |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
There is no such thing as an electrical damage type.
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| Damage resistance has nothing to do with status effects. |
However, there's a difference between what's used and what exists. I'd suggest being a tad more careful with making definite statements about what Damage/Defense types exist, and what can be added. (of course, the used/exists distinction is pretty much just interesting when discussing the limits of the game mechanics, since things that aren't actually used won't have a direct effect in-game)
Heck, Paragon Wiki's list of *known* (used) damage types isn't even complete. It doesn't mention Heal, and the Special damage type is only listed (under the name "Quantum Damage") as previously being used by Quantum attacks.
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Yes, for the moment. |
Originally Posted by Stargazer
Wanna bet?
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The Devs can currently add additional damage types, but not attack vector/defense types. Still, this all started because a poster thought that some armor types were specifically useful against electrical attacks and their side effects. The current combat system doesn't work like that. The ability to resist or overcome a status effect once it hits has nothing to do with the name of the attack. A status effect of a specific type, magnitude and duration works exactly the same regardless of what name the attack that inflicted it has.
The links in my last post covered all that anyway. Currently damage types can be added, but attack vectors cannot. All electrical attacks currently in the game use energy damage and are generally tagged as being defended against using energy defense and the appropriate positional defense.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Actually, unless that part of the code has been rewritten, there are, and can only be, ten attack vectors/defense types. Back around issue 1 the Devs wanted to add Toxic defense in addition to the damage type, but couldn't due to the way that part of the game is designed. Prior to adding Toxic damage Vahzilok zombies were spewing attacks that used untyped damage that could not be resisted at all. Back then Science was considered a really sucky origin by some people because it meant you faced enemies early on who used unresistable damage. |
Originally Posted by Stargazer
However, there's a difference between what's used and what exists. I'd suggest being a tad more careful with making definite statements about what Damage/Defense types exist, and what can be added. (of course, the used/exists distinction is pretty much just interesting when discussing the limits of the game mechanics, since things that aren't actually used won't have a direct effect in-game)
Heck, Paragon Wiki's list of *known* (used) damage types isn't even complete. It doesn't mention Heal, and the Special damage type is only listed (under the name "Quantum Damage") as previously being used by Quantum attacks. |
Even with the programmers Paragon Studios has now i'm not sure it would be considered worth the effort of rewriting the combat engine to permit new defense types. Then again, maybe it's already been done, but it certainly hasn't appeared in the live game yet.
So, adding damage types is fairly easy and adding defense types is not. Nothing is impossible, but some things (like adding additional defense types) haven't been considered worth the investment for almost 6 years.
Right now there is no electrical damage or defense type, nor is there any real need to add it.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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You're completely right, and I thought you gave an excellent description of how this works.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Still, this all started because a poster thought that some armor types were specifically useful against electrical attacks and their side effects. The current combat system doesn't work like that. The ability to resist or overcome a status effect once it hits has nothing to do with the name of the attack. A status effect of a specific type, magnitude and duration works exactly the same regardless of what name the attack that inflicted it has.
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| All electrical attacks currently in the game use energy damage. |
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| Currently damage types can be added, but attack vectors cannot. |
Electrical Damage and Radiation Damage are two defined, but not currently used, Damage types. They haven't really been "added", but rather seem to be remnants of ideas that didn't make it into the finished game. Similarly, IIRC Toxic wasn't as much "added" as it was a "relabeling" of a previously existing Damage type (and passing out Resistance to it).
Defense on the other hand...
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| The Devs can currently add additional damage types, but not attack vector/defense types. |
Wanna bet?
The question isn't really if it's worth the investment to *add* them, it's if it's worth the investment to *use* them.
For the sake of argument, let's say that Toxic_Attack is added to the game (by a programmer). This part doesn't necessarily take much effort, but until it's been done, it's not possible for the powers team to use it.
When it's available though, the powers team has to decide if they want to *use* it. *This* part can take a lot of effort. Suddenly, it has to be decided which powers should use this new attack type, and which powers should defend against it. Also, what powers that currently give Toxic Resistance (because Toxic Defense didn't exist at the time) should have this converted into Defense? What powers that have the benefit of not checking against an additional Defense types should be compensated when that Defense type suddenly starts showing up? A whole bunch of attack and defense powers would suddenly need to be reevaluated. Would the benefits of using this extra attack type warrant the work that would be required, or would it only be change for change's sake?
Even if a new attack type isn't *used*, that doesn't mean that it was a waste of time for the programmer to *add* it. With it there, the powers team has the *option* of using it, and that can be a good option to have (one they wished they had at the time Toxic Damage was "added"). It wouldn't necessarily need to be used with the name it was originally given either; if at some point in the future the powers team wants to add a new pair of Damage/Attack types, they can simply re-purpose some of the previously existing (but not used) ones. Say for instance that they want to add Trout Melee in i21, and specifically want it to use powers that deal Trout Damage, and use the Trout attack type. They could simply use Electrical Damage for Trout Damage, and Toxic_Attack for Trout_Attack.
Again, as I said in my previous post, this doesn't change what we actually currently experience in the game, but it is relevant when discussing the limits of the game mechanics.
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Well, we happened to have three characters with access to Vengeance, so we made use of it. Would single Vengeance have sufficed? Perhaps, but after pounding on those Green Mitos for a long time with no appreciable effect, I wasn't about to "play nice". |
Originally Posted by Minotaur
So you had to exploit a different bug (vengeance is not supposed to stack but can be made to do so) to finish it, wonderful ...
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As others have stated, this isn't fixed. I ran into it last night, the first time I zoned into Cimerora, with the toon I was playing. I eventually got unstuck, but it took 4-5 times zoning back and forth, and I was stuck in both places. Also, I consistently have been getting stuck in the crystal in the Midnighter Club for at least the past few months. Jumping around and using a Raptor Pack or Fly eventually works.
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Originally Posted by Avatea
City Zones
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As far as "slowing down" the LGTF is concerned, the only thing I think needs to be addressed is letting the escorts die and that's mainly due to theme and consistency. Theme, since there's a sizable amount of "it makes sense" to actually save the people you were sent to rescue. Consistency, since there are other TFs, namely the Operative Renault Strike Force, that fail if the escort dies. If it's set to fail and then force you to repeat the mission on one, it should be applied to others.
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The problem with 'consistency' is that the LGSF would be run differently.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
As far as "slowing down" the LGTF is concerned, the only thing I think needs to be addressed is letting the escorts die and that's mainly due to theme and consistency. Theme, since there's a sizable amount of "it makes sense" to actually save the people you were sent to rescue. Consistency, since there are other TFs, namely the Operative Renault Strike Force, that fail if the escort dies. If it's set to fail and then force you to repeat the mission on one, it should be applied to others.
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There is no motivation to save Penny Yin on a villain's part. Just taking her out is far more efficient. Unless she was to reward you handsomely on exit, it would be more rational (safer) for someone just to remove her from the equation to keep Penny from being used by the other side.
The mission to save the psychics and the two NPC heroes. Nothing is mentioned regarding the need to save the original Omega team members. The psychics need to be taken out of Rikti hands, but Infernia and Glacia mean nothing to a villain. They wouldn't even bother to save them, let alone get them killed.
If the Omega team members had sent a coded message saying they had valuable information that was required to get to the next mission, then I could see the requirement to see them safely to the door, but currently nothing addresses the need to save them.
The whole war zone suffers from sufficient motivation from a villain perspective, other than the appeal to 'save the world'. We've already seen villains negotiate with the Rikti so villain motives are a lot harder to align with hero motivations in the RWZ.
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This change is TRULY HORRIBLE on the Numina TF. All the hunts giving no XP.|
Rewards Removed the rewards for all errand tasks within missions. These small rewards were exploitable with the new mission abandonment feature. Mission completion rewards are not affected, including patrol missions. |
Half an hour of wasted time with no XP/inf/prestige.
Real disincentive to do this TF now, another one off the list, I used to do it a lot. Not good, in the last few weeks Posi (scandalously under rewarded for merits), Numina and LGTF have gone, what next ?
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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While a number of my villains are rather sympathetic, you make a valid point that points to the fallacy of the thought process that there should be no new villainous content and that all new stuff should be co-op. Even the nicer villains have a different thought process than most heroes.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
The whole war zone suffers from sufficient motivation from a villain perspective, other than the appeal to 'save the world'. We've already seen villains negotiate with the Rikti so villain motives are a lot harder to align with hero motivations in the RWZ.
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Not sure where to look for this, but were there also changes to the ITF?
We ran this last night and found that the TF was not operating as it had in the past. In specific, we were unable to pull one of the Nictus away from Rommie using four snipes and a taunt. They just sat there and refused to aggro/get pulled away from Rommie.
We eventually just had to go in and bully through the final fight, which was a little difficult with our team. However, what was even stranger is that we didn't have as hard of a time as we figured we would (only one team wipe with all 4 AVs on us). The chatter in team was that we felt that Rommie's Resistances had been dropped considerably. There was some debate over this since we had a Rad Emission and a Dark Miasma debuffer on the team dropping down -resist.
Anyway, Just checking in here to see if there was another case of "TF Updated 'cause Critters not WAI" that happened on the ITF (Nictus now have resist taunt?).
Subjective Comment: If we're now required to bulldoze through that last mission, then I has a sad. I really liked how that TF could use a lot of different strategies depending on team composition. I thought it was a clever adaptation that kept the TF fresh for multiple replays.
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