Live Patch Notes - 5/12/10
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2010-05-12 10:47 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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The Coming Storm is just Castles 2nd account he uses to troll the forums
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Originally Posted by Bocus_King
you sound like a broken record
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As others have mentioned before, the Green Mitos could previously heal despite being held. A Controller would also have significant difficulty maintaining a stacked Mag 54 on a target with 50% Mez Resistance.|
Originally Posted by Myriad
Are you sure about the numbers? Wouldn't it mean that one Controller is enough to hold a green Mito during a Hami raid? My last Hami raid was too long ago, but I think I remember that we needed to stack multiple holds to stop green Mitos. And wouldn't it mean that LGTF Mitos were never able to heal themselves or other Mitos? Something they actually did.
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| What if Hami Mitos were -3 (base) -50 (buff) = -53 and LGTF Mitos were Hami Mitos with a lower base (-2 instead of -3)? They would have been -2 -50 +50 = -2 before the "fix" and -2 -50 -50 = -102 now. I have no clue to what the original numbers are, I'm just guessing here and trying to include what I have seen and experienced during Hami raids and LFTG runs. |
Also, we didn't have -2 -50 +50, we had -2 +50. Now, we have -2 -50, not -2 -50 -50.
I think some of you really are over-reacting to this way too much - Castle made a tweak, explained the reason behind it, acknowledged the negative reaction to it, and more or less promised to dial it back a bit in another patch - there's not much more to say about it, and there's certainly no point in getting worked up about it.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Locked doors for the sole purpose of slowing players down? Just no. That's bad design and doubly frustrating in a game of superheroes/villains who are already limited at every turn. No need for another half-baked contrivance just to cater to those who cannot stomach differing playstyles.
Besides, there are 'speed' runs that roll over everything at +2 and barely take 10-20 minutes longer than those that skip as much as possible at +0. You might as well be clamouring for Terra Volta-style gameplay for the whole game, or for inspirations to be removed.
I18 Hamidon raiding guide
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I don't see the point of locked doors being to slow players down, I see it as a method to enforce participation of certain content. If you can steamroll +2 and up, that's awesome. I've been on those teams and it is lovely and fun. However, if we're going to be rewarded based on "difficulty to complete (X)", they have to do something to make sure that there really is some difficulty in (X). I certainly don't know what "the answer" is, if there even is one. The only true solution may be to revamp the whole way rewards work. As someone pointed out in another thread, the whole system is getting kinda bulky.. we have inspirations and enhancements, salvage, recipes, merits, tickets.. it's fine for those of us who have been here to watch the game grow, but it probably seems insurmountable to someone who is new to the game. (Or games in general.) But the way I see it, there's all kinds of neat content that people miss because of skipping. That's certainly a player's choice, but I wouldn't begrudge a TF/mish designer for putting locks on doors to make sure that people see the content you worked so hard to design. ^_^ To each his own, though.
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Originally Posted by ROBOKiTTY
Locked doors for the sole purpose of slowing players down? Just no. That's bad design and doubly frustrating in a game of superheroes/villains who are already limited at every turn. No need for another half-baked contrivance just to cater to those who cannot stomach differing playstyles.
Besides, there are 'speed' runs that roll over everything at +2 and barely take 10-20 minutes longer than those that skip as much as possible at +0. You might as well be clamouring for Terra Volta-style gameplay for the whole game, or for inspirations to be removed. |
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Originally Posted by Sapphire7
I'm not sure how else I can phrase this, though apparently my earlier reply wasn't clear.
The mitos were indeed executing the heal power. The whole reason this bug was discovered is because they *were* executing the heal, even *while held*. That's the point, that's what opened this whole can of worms. You could hold them, but they would heal anyway. |
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Originally Posted by Stargazer
As others have mentioned before, the Green Mitos could previously heal despite being held. A Controller would also have significant difficulty maintaining a stacked Mag 54 on a target with 50% Mez Resistance.
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I was unter the impression that this:
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| "Corrected an error in Critter powers which could prevent them from being shut down in appropriate circumstances. Good examples are Reichsman keeping his max Resistance despite being shot with the Dimensional Grounding Ray, Green Mito's in the Lady Grey Task Force keeping their Healing Aura despite being held, and some critters retaining Hide when damaged" |
My problem with this and the source of my confusion is the fact that the LGTF worked before I17. And it seems to be broken now. If I read and understood everything we had permaheld Mitos that healed other Mitos before and have unheld Mitos that heal other Mitos now. So what exactly makes the LGTF harder now? Mito Resistance is from an Auto power, so that shouldn't be suppressed when held. Again, no change here, so what makes it harder now? I would go and check it out myself, but it seems the LGTF is not very popular atm, couldn't find or build a team so far.
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I think the big thing is the lack of common sense behind the change. as previously stated, if you have any basic understand of game mechanics, you would know that 50 mag hold prot *and* 50 mag res is crazy for an 8 man team. castle just arbitrarily just made this change without either A) testing this first or B) not listening to the people who had tested this and said it was crap in the first place. well all that and the fact that a TF, that was quite fun, is now undoable and we have no time table of when it will be doable again, which wasn't helped by castles tone, what i read as apathetically saying "meh i'll get around to it later when i have nothing better to do", in the supposed i'll fix it post.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think some of you really are over-reacting to this way too much - Castle made a tweak, explained the reason behind it, acknowledged the negative reaction to it, and more or less promised to dial it back a bit in another patch - there's not much more to say about it, and there's certainly no point in getting worked up about it.
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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loltryquittingAOLlol
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
name calling solves what?
edit: that's a very odd business practice to ignore paying customers. What happens to a company when they do that? |
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Ahhh, I see what you're asking. And since I now understand your question, I can't answer it. Basically: if they were spamming their heal when they were held before, why does it matter if they can no longer be held? They're still spamming their heal, why is it any harder than it was before?|
Originally Posted by Myriad
No, both of you were clear enough. I guess I wasn't clear enough to make my point. Sorry about that.
I was unter the impression that this: was a fix to a bug that came with I17 simply because I didn't see people talking about it before I17 and I never experienced it myself before I17. Whereas the first post by Castle in this thread indicates that the bug is at least as old as the LGTF. My problem with this and the source of my confusion is the fact that the LGTF worked before I17. And it seems to be broken now. If I read and understood everything we had permaheld Mitos that healed other Mitos before and have unheld Mitos that heal other Mitos now. So what exactly makes the LGTF harder now? Mito Resistance is from an Auto power, so that shouldn't be suppressed when held. Again, no change here, so what makes it harder now? I would go and check it out myself, but it seems the LGTF is not very popular atm, couldn't find or build a team so far. |
And yeah, I don't know the answer.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, my post was a reply to someone asking if it was impossible to finish without a holder. It is not impossible, but it also not fun.|
Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
TFs shouldn't require you to have all those buffs/pets in order to finish anything.
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Myriad, the green mitos have super high damage resistances if they are not held. Holding them drops their resistances so they can be defeated much faster.
Basically Castle's patch to fix the i17 LGTF issue is not really a fix, since overcoming the mito hold barrier with an 8 person team is simply not worth the effort as opposed to spamming huge damage and temp powers instead.
And people are upset because we again have tweaks being made to the game without any patch notes or testing process. Some people take hours to get to the 'weakened hamidon' mission and then hit a brick wall. On test, that's acceptable. On live, that's really unfair.
The LGTF is only one of two cross faction TF/SFs in the game, so basically for high end content it pretty much limits cross faction playing to ITFs and ship raids now.
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They have massive regeneration when not held.
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Originally Posted by Sapphire7
Ahhh, I see what you're asking. And since I now understand your question, I can't answer it. Basically: if they were spamming their heal when they were held before, why does it matter if they can no longer be held? They're still spamming their heal, why is it any harder than it was before?
And yeah, I don't know the answer. |
Virtue
--Blazing Tiger-- 50 Invulrn/Fire Tank
<<Virtues Tankiest Kitty>>
Try my Arcs: #4892 and #112548
@Blazing Tiger and @Aqua Fox
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Already mentioned this earlier but yes this is the main issue not only publishes to live but also to test so we can actually test the changes.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
And people are upset because we again have tweaks being made to the game without any patch notes or testing process.
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Virtue
--Blazing Tiger-- 50 Invulrn/Fire Tank
<<Virtues Tankiest Kitty>>
Try my Arcs: #4892 and #112548
@Blazing Tiger and @Aqua Fox
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If you ran PUG LRSFs you'd be used to it by now.
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Originally Posted by GadgetDon
you're an hour, maybe more spent on the TF. To discover that you just hit a wall because you don't have the team makeup expected is never fun, to discover that you hit that wall that late in the TF is maddening.
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Castle, given the track record of "matching the original design", wouldn't it have been better to make sure the original design wasn't flawed?|
Originally Posted by Castle
Perhaps. Probably, in fact. I made it match the original design. If needed (and judging by reactions, it probably is) I'll drop the protection some in a future update. It will never be as easy as it was when the green mito's perma-held themselves though.
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Cases in point:
AV/GM regen rate of Issue 7.
Scaling Mayhem Mission destructible objects to mission level.
Some changes, just for the sake of being an original design decision, should not be excluded from being examined before they go to the live servers.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I thought of glowies, but they give so little inf, and no xp, that trying to "exploit" those would be among the lowest possible reward/time ratios you could achieve without going AFK. Besides that you could just reset a mission even before we had the option to abandon it, so I doubt those were a factor.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
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Basically, anything you get a reward for in Dev-created missions that you can't get rewarded for in AE missions is a possibility. |
FedEx missions would complete once you click on the contact, so I'm presuming you wouldn't be able to abandon them once you got the reward for them. So again I'm not seeing how you could "exploit" them.
The only thing I've been able to think of is maybe if there are multi-part FedEx missions, where you could complete the first part for a reward without that completing the mission, thereby allowing you to abandon and re-get the mission. I don't know if any such missions exist.
I'm still not seeing why the change was required. I'm not saying it wasn't, I'd just like to understand what it was meant to address.
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No, we are not over-reacting. People are reacting perfectly reasonably to a change that was not needed and pushed through without being mentioned in the patch-notes. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think some of you really are over-reacting to this way too much - Castle made a tweak, explained the reason behind it, acknowledged the negative reaction to it, and more or less promised to dial it back a bit in another patch - there's not much more to say about it, and there's certainly no point in getting worked up about it.
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These are the types of changes that piss customers off to the point of canceling subs. This "fix" has ruined the routine of many players for the past 2 weeks.
Castle wants to fix something, fix the server lag on ITF that MANY have been asking for. Fix PvP using the communities requests tribe had listed many posts ago.
If no one is complaining about it don't F*ing fix it.
Signed,
Irritably Tokyo
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Kalinda Aura and Cape arcs (lvl 20 and 30). The blueside Cim entrace mission where you talk to the Rikti dude in AP (lvl 10). You can call the contact, abandon, call, get the mission, talk to, abandon, repeat.
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Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
I thought of glowies, but they give so little inf, and no xp, that trying to "exploit" those would be among the lowest possible reward/time ratios you could achieve without going AFK. Besides that you could just reset a mission even before we had the option to abandon it, so I doubt those were a factor.
FedEx missions would complete once you click on the contact, so I'm presuming you wouldn't be able to abandon them once you got the reward for them. So again I'm not seeing how you could "exploit" them. The only thing I've been able to think of is maybe if there are multi-part FedEx missions, where you could complete the first part for a reward without that completing the mission, thereby allowing you to abandon and re-get the mission. I don't know if any such missions exist. I'm still not seeing why the change was required. I'm not saying it wasn't, I'd just like to understand what it was meant to address. |
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I don't disagree.|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
"Fixing" a "mistake" without actually testing the "fix"?
If you're gonna fix something, then fix it right. Fixing something halfass, and saying "oh, I'll fix it again later" is just ... Bad form, Castle. Bad form. |
I'll be reducing the Green Mito Protection to 15 later this afternoon...no idea how long it'll take to get to the servers, but there it is.
Let's not arbitrarily make changes to TF completion methods because Kontent Kops want to smell the roses at every turn. The game is already fairly easy for the most part in missions and TFs. Slowing it down even more isn't a great solution.
Concerning the Mending changes, setting them so that their regen tends downward when held as per their pre-I17 iteration would be swell. Requiring a team full of "Holders" is an inelegant solution, at best.
Edit, thanks Castle for that fix.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Man, the whole green issue reminds me of Castle being in this lady's seat.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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The toggle did not shut down their protections when you held them? That doesn't match my observations. Odd. I'll check that today.
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Originally Posted by Mystic_Fortune
You might also want to take a look at regular npc critters with mez protection toggles, specifically Calibans and Gardvords of the Trolls (these are the only ones I've noticed so far). Once they activated their toggle I was unable to mez them.. even after stacking successful holds. To me.. that is unacceptable on a Lieutenant rank critter, 3 successful hits with my hold and he was still beating the crap out of my buddy..
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As long as we're making Castle run a pug lg, can it be on an so'd shield scrap or brute? With against all odds routinely stealing massive aggro from tanks I think the usefulness of an un-nerfed shield charge would quickly become obvious 
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He needs to slot 5 botz sets on it though :P
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Originally Posted by Verene
As long as we're making Castle run a pug lg, can it be on an so'd shield scrap or brute? With against all odds routinely stealing massive aggro from tanks I think the usefulness of an un-nerfed shield charge would quickly become obvious
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<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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I think Mystic's point was that they were unable to stack enough Holds to overcome the Mez protection in the first place.|
Originally Posted by Castle
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That's not very surprising really, since it's kinda hard to stack several holds at the lower levels (hitting with 3 holds in a row doesn't necessarily mean that there are 3 active holds on the target).
The mitos were indeed executing the heal power. The whole reason this bug was discovered is because they *were* executing the heal, even *while held*. That's the point, that's what opened this whole can of worms. You could hold them, but they would heal anyway.
Also, you still need multiple holds because they have Mag-2 and then another 50 on top of that. So they're -52, meaning you need Mag53 to bring them up over zero. Which is fine for the Hami Raid version, but obviously not so great for a team of 8.