What can the other secondaries do better than /Shield?

Here's another fun little comparo to talk about around the water cooler tomorrow.

Scrapper SC vs Old PSW
*AAO+bu for the scrapper, Domination for the dom.
(you may not like the inclusion of bu, but it is on the exact same timer as SC, I know I use it every single time)

SC
200/cycle time(90+1.716)
2.18*target cap (16)
34.89*damage buff (1.95+.813+1.0)
=131.3 aoe dps

*251.5 w/ 3 rech SO's
*433.1 w/ "perma dom" level recharge

Old PSW
70/cycle time (10+2.112)
5.78*target cap (10)
57.79*damage buff (1.95+.75)
=156 aoe dps

*261 w/ 3 rech SO's
*377.2 w/perma dom (hasten+80% global+3 rech SO's)

Now I'm not saying SC is the new PSW, the numbers are painting that picture depending on whether you accept the assumptions made or not. I will say that a lot of the arguments being made to leave SC alone are the same ones made about PSW, but maybe a bit weaker cause doms at least had the fact they were grossly underplayed to prop up their side of the story. Scrappers can make no such claim.

We also kidded ourselves PSW was fine because the rest of /Psi (except for Drain Psyche) sucked.

The rest of /SD doesn't suck :3

Edit: I'm on the fence about SD. As someone who plays almost exclusively end-game with IOs, SD is far and away the best secondary. But I know that's not how the game is balanced.

I'm more in the camp of "SD is new, got nerfed in beta, is more or less where the devs want it, buff FA".

I'm not interested in SD getting nerfed, even though Schadenfreude ist die beste Freude, denn sie kommt von Herzen.

I just think FA needs a buff because currently it's weak defensively to pay for an offensive strength that it doesn't have.

Shield/Sr is about all I bother with nowdays myself because most of the other sets other than electric are too squishy to use for anything but purple farming -1 mobs. Scrapper resistances are too low. I think fire aura is an exception though because of its added damage, and quick recharging heal but only in certain circumstances.

Now ofcourse I'm speaking on terms of being able to survive against hordes of +2 and +4 mobs on my own without help from the team. I like my scrappers to be able to handle things like a tank and kill in the process.

AAO? Over the top?
Cyber naut is right, AAO is a BIG liability whilst leveling, and will rip aggro from Willpower Tankers with ease (as an easy example)
Yes you have benefits with Offense, but it's not the only set that does (Damage auras are powerful things)
And its Defense is not that great, Softcap isn't everything, and I'm yet to take taunt on any Shield scrapper. I HAVE however taken taunt on my /Inv, and have thought about it for /WP.
No, Shields is balanced just right, and I'm sure we'll see people moving to other secondaries again once the current FotM of Elec/SD passes.

(oh wait, it has passed, shouldnt we be moaning about demon summoners?)

Edit -

And apparently I hadn't read far enough forward in the thread,

And yeah, don't mess with shields, give Fire Armor the boost it desperately craves instead,

But the point I as trying to make was -
I've achieved better survivability with other sets,
and better overall damage with other sets,
Shields just happens to strike a very nice balance between those two goals.

Honestly I can't get into it. Sub-par set. Without looking at sets: Lowest def for a def based set. So until you spend a few hundred mil (or a bil), the set is really lackluster.

I want to like it, there are a lot of cool looking shields, but I just can't.

Yeah the main problem I see is Fire Arrmour not having a spot. Shields is a safer alternative to get the same damage output.

SR can cap for about 200 Mil and for that 200 mil it
Regen and WP are so casual friendly it hurts and both can be improved to AV soloing (4 at once further down the list and I know Jeff's Claw/Regen has done 4 too)
Inv is my ultimate inf drain, but damn it feels indestructable when done. Even without that is a sevicable set
DA is just magic with its many mitigations and the thinking mans safety. Costs a whole bunch of end though and you build to make that right
Shield is the damage king that can be made safe with some spending
Elec is the energiser bunny that just keeps going and going. Not played it on scrappers but on a brute and tank is a lovely feeling and is probably what fire should feel like
Fire? Well it used to be the quishy damage king but now there's a safe one why do you want a squishy one. The broken set is fire not Shields. Shields and Elec have made Fire fairly redundant though Elec needed a small tweak to make that happen. Maybe if fire had a tweak then all the sets would have their place and some balance


Edit: my fire/shields is fine without IOs, but then back in I6 I was soloing AVs with a DM/SR with ony 29% or there abouts defence so I come from a history of not needing the Def Cap to function

From what i've read in this thread, shield is lacking without Io's but amazing with. whereas every other powerset it great without IO's and better but not as amazing as shields with IO's.

Now i have played, willpower, SR, invulnerability, and Electric armour past lvl 30(not IO'd), and have played all others pre 30 most below 14 so i don't have the best experience but i have enough to draw the conclusion i am about to make.

Out of all the sets i've played, willpower has been the most survivable, with SR being very close in second with electric armour and invuln coming in third and fourth respectively. Now defensive set's are noticably survivable, you can tell when you are dodging loads, and taking verry little damage, but one defdebuff and it's all downhill from then on. Res based sets are noticably less survivable but sustain their survivability in a far more linear way than the fluctuating mitigation of the defensive sets. when they are both strung together as a combi set, whilse you do have both primary mitigation types, you take more damage than a res set and more hits than a defense set, altogether making combo set's underwealming compared to either extreme(pre IO experience only). Now the thing which set's Willpower appart from the others is major regen capability. That is what turns it from underwealming to epic. Now with shield it is a combi set, that rather than focusing on mitigating damage in a way other than def/res focuses on increased damage and team play. These two factors are what level's it out with the other sets.

I can garuntee it now that most people saying shield is underwealming are probably playing solo or running out in front of their teams with maybe one team mate by their side. whereas those who say it is too strong are watching shields on teams playing close beside their team mates. Now when you see people with shileds in history books or movies, they are in big squadrens with other people with shields. The shield set in game is designed to work like that, you play at your best with other players arround you, you aid them with Grant Cover and the other players in turn aid you with Phalanx Fighting. Whilst you also take out enemies quicker as a way to avoid taking as much damage from them.

What people are forgetting is that shield, like HEAT's are designed to be benefitted by having team mates arround them. and without team mates don't perform to their full potential. So before you slate shield for it's survivability, try soloing a dwarf based PB/WS to lvl 50 using only TO, DO and IO's and say that is easier. And if you are now saying;
"well that's not relevant we are saying that Shield is not as powerful as other sets,"
Then try soloing a SonicRes defender to lvl 50 and tell me thats as easy as soloing any other type of defender to lvl 50....

.... had to be done.

Hot damn, that's +1 internetz for me.