City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Hello from Paragon Marketing

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-04-16 09:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

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Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker View Post
No they don't; Sprunk Cola does. Unless Coca Cola spends money to advertise the connection, they get nothing other than a dilution of their brand... and they still get some of that.
I was giving an example... Coca Cola spends a lot of money to advertise as is and not to mention just putting out a new label will draw attention even without advertising because people are crazy.

 

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...Oh! Black Pebble could be a Ninja! That would be cool too...

...I would like a City Vault, actually. And a mobile app, so I can show off all my toons remotely.

 

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Another thing... Paragon Times... bring it back.

 

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Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
before i go on... I hate those comic encyclopedias published by the comic companies, mainly cuz they are trash for information when they cover a broad spectrum of characters... the batman encyclopedia = phenomenal... The DC encyclopedia = not worth the money.

I like digital which is why I suggested it, plus it could be updated rather easily to which would be nice...it would also function a bit more slicker and you could link between relevant things...Another reason is a little bit more cleanliness as some things are easier to put in (i'll explain in a moment) But most of all... it's just something that i think all the characters in CoH would have and it would be like making part of the game a part of reality which is a big trend in marketing now adays


See what I'd want in something like this is... something like this mock up



Then when you click on the head image you'd get a turn around (for those that don't know this is a turn around)



But that could be easily placed on a separate page... it's just not as clean.
Ahem: wiki.

 

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Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
Black Pebble,

You deal with marketing right? Does that include the website and other products?

If so I'd like to request some things...

a Dosier or Encyclopedia. What i mean is something like a little electronic book type thing (could be sold as a program, a book, or a electronic device) that has information on every thing so far in CoH... mind you not a copy of the bible, but something like...
a turn around image of every character, break down of their powers, history, physical stats, and alliances, and other status.

It would be rather cool to have just for a read or to have sitting next to a PC to quick find. I'm sure people would be willing to buy it for quite a bit of money and more or less it just requires putting it together as all the pieces and information is already out there.


Another thing I'd like to see is an expansion of the CoH comics... I don't see why CoH couldn't become it's own Brand and print comics like DC or Marvel. Sure they wouldn't be as successful, but the story and lore is really great and would likely draw in more customers...more so than one comic called city of heroes ever would.


Waffles... I just want waffles please...
I seem to remember something like a COH players guide. I think we got a hunk of with free with CoV.

 

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Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero View Post
Ahem: wiki.
the wiki is for mechanics and information about the game...sure the story and lore is in there, but it is not the primary reason to exist so the info isn't written up well for story purposes.

 

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Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
Conventions
We’ll officially be at Comic-Con San Diego and PAX West this year. But perhaps an even better question is: Where we will be throwing Meet and Greets? There will be 4 opportunities across the country where you can come to meet us in person, and one of them is still being decided on.

We do listen to your feedback on where you’d like us to be. As I mentioned earlier, this is our first year we visited the east coast, and that’s directly a result from your efforts. Even if we cannot be at your local convention, we would still like to help if possible.
Okay instead of simply hinting at the remaining con, can we PLEASE have the final location you guys are planning to show at spelled out?

Please forgive my bluntness here, but announcing it last-minute (or worse, just appearing at a con as a "surprise") is BS.

Convention season is upon us and people need time to make plans.

Going to a major convention isn't a lark for most people. It's a major financial and time commitment.

Announcing that you're going to be at [INSERTNAMEHERECON] less than a week out does NOT give people time to make plans and block out the time.

If plans for said con are still tentative SAY SO. But throw people a freaking bone here!

I'm already scheduling two Meet & Greets (Origins and GenCon). I'd very much like to NOT have plans interrupted/destroyed last-minute by you guys announcing your own event if you show at one of these. I'm sure people looking to run similar events at other cons (like DragonCon) would deeply appreciate the same consideration.


Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

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Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
Hello everybody,

I am the silent Black Pebble, otherwise known as the new North Americanbrand manager for City of Heroes.

...

- Guy without a cool signature, avatar or costume.
Does anyone else see this as indicative of why City of Heroes has had such poor marketing?

How is that a marketing guy DOESN'T have the perfect sig, costume or avatar? Why is he SILENT, for cryin' out loud? No offense Black Pebble, but that's exactly the opposite attitude any good marketer should have, and you should be honestly embarrassed for actually bragging about that level of not-getting-it.

Why ISN'T CoH advertised everywhere gamers go? How come almost no one has heard of Going Rogue? You have 6 weeks until GR's launch and even my friends who are ex-players here have never heard of it. That's ridiculous, quite frankly.

It can't possibly cost that much to advertise on websites. Why does Newsarama have Neiman-Marcus ads but no CoH ads? Superherohype's background is Super Mario Galaxy 2. Comic Book Resources features Comfort Inn. Massively, a huge supporter of CoH, has never had a CoH ad that I've ever seen. Hell, putting an ad on BoingBoing will garner more eyeballs than almost any other website.

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Does anyone else see this as indicative of why City of Heroes has had such poor marketing?

How is that a marketing guy DOESN'T have the perfect sig, costume or avatar? Why is he SILENT, for cryin' out loud? No offense Black Pebble, but that's exactly the opposite attitude any good marketer should have, and you should be honestly embarrassed for actually bragging about that level of not-getting-it.

Why ISN'T CoH advertised everywhere gamers go? How come almost no one has heard of Going Rogue? You have 6 weeks until GR's launch and even my friends who are ex-players here have never heard of it. That's ridiculous, quite frankly.

It can't possibly cost that much to advertise on websites. Why does Newsarama have Neiman-Marcus ads but no CoH ads? Superherohype's background is Super Mario Galaxy 2. Comic Book Resources features Comfort Inn. Massively, a huge supporter of CoH, has never had a CoH ad that I've ever seen. Hell, putting an ad on BoingBoing will garner more eyeballs than almost any other website.
His sig is a joke on the fact that he's not named after one of the signature heroes like BAB or Castle. Let's try not to scare him off again.

But I completely agree with everything else you said, and feel very strongly that it needs to be repeated over and over until NCsoft gets it. This game needs to be advertised in the same way that all other successful MMOs advertise: with ads on gaming websites. WoW, EVE and LotRO all spam their adds all over sites like MMORPG.com. What rationalization does NCsoft have for not doing the same? After all, they're spending the money to make an expansion, yet the company seems to have zero interest in actually selling boxes and making a return on the investment. They advertised the hell out of Aion, and we all saw the massive hype machine that surrounded it as a result. Why not try the exact same tactic for CoX?

 

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Originally Posted by Positivity View Post
His sig is a joke on the fact that he's not named after one of the signature heroes like BAB or Castle. Let's try not to scare him off again.
Easy fix there are bound to be new non alternate heros/villeins on Pratoria.

 

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NCSoft obviously doesn't see any pressing need to advertise for a "currently" profitable six your old game

Korea is a really really long way away from here...

There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"

 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
Why is he SILENT, for cryin' out loud?
Because he got the name from a post AmazingMOO made, where AM called the marketing department a "silent black pebble".

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

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Originally Posted by Positivity View Post
His sig is a joke on the fact that he's not named after one of the signature heroes like BAB or Castle. Let's try not to scare him off again.
Even easier fixed: Castle wasn't named after a signature hero, his alter ego was put into the game after the fact. Black Pebble could be added too, if someone really thought that was a cool name and a character worth adding. I don't.

Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522

 

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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Because he got the name from a post AmazingMOO made, where AM called the marketing department a "silent black pebble".
That would underscore another issue: don't reference in-jokes so far in that even people like me who've been here since beta don't get. Or explain the joke with, I don't know, a sig?

I want to reiterate something I mentioned before: my friends who played this game for 3 years were surprised to learn that Going Rogue was coming out this summer. The only reason they know is because I happened to mention it on Facebook. If former paying customers don't know about the expansion, how are people in no way connected to the game supposed to find out? I saw a brief mention months ago on MMORPG.com, but nothing since. How is that "building brand awareness?"

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
I'd like to repeat a previous point: Mother's Love had some great designs. I don't know the history between CoH and Mother's Love, but if there's ANY way to get those designs licensed, sold through the CoH store, or whatever- me and mine would buy about eight of them.
This is HIGHLY unlikely to happen, NCSoft were pretty clear about it at the time. Extremely so in fact.

 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
That would underscore another issue: don't reference in-jokes so far in that even people like me who've been here since beta don't get. Or explain the joke with, I don't know, a sig?
It was pointed out in this thread (I believe the phrase was something along the lines of "you guys named me"), and then someone posted a link directly to MOO's post.

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

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Hi.

I am taking notes on a lot of the ideas I’m seeing on the forums. A couple of the ones in this thread are compelling enough where I am looking into them. Once I have more information, I’ll update you on them. Feel free to keep tossing out new ideas.

Here’s my feedback on some of the things you have brought up:


Standalone Costume Creator
Obviously, this was before my time. It’s not a bad idea but if it was easy enough to execute on I’d have to think that it would have been done a long time ago.


Guest Authors
If you know Piers Anthony, I’ll talk to him.


Smartphone Apps
I think mass acceptance of mobile apps for MMO’s are inevitable. It’s trickier in the US due to the competing technologies. It’s not just Windows Mobile vs. iPhone vs Android. It’s CDMA vs. GSM. I think that’s one of the reasons why smartphone usage in the US is not as widespread as it is in other parts of the world.

It’s also why building an iPhone app may be pretty cool, but if you don’t make an Android, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, etc. version, you just cut out every Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint customer in the US. It’s not impossible, but offering the same functionality across platforms is tough, particularly when you’re not reaching the majority of your customers. Heck, even on Android, you still have folks running on 1.6 while others are rocking 2.1. And the apps aren’t universally compatible between versions.

Winding back to my point, I agree, an Android/Windows Mobile/iPhone CoH app would be pretty neat. It can be nearly as difficult, or even more challenging, then building out entirely new functionalities within CoH. At that point, we need to decide – is this app worth giving up some new feature we have planned?

I believe at some point, there’s at least a chance that the answer will be yes.


Free Comic Book Day
We’ll consider it for next year.


More CoH Comic Books
They’re fun to do but they are difficult to manage. You guys remember how often your copies would get lost in the mail, or trashed by the postal service? That’s the least of the hurdles. Print comics are a good visual aid, but the resources they require and time they take don’t make them a realistic initiative any longer.

We went digital with our comics for a while and while I doubt very much we’ll start that up again, I’ll at least look into it.


“Sprunk” Cola
It sounds to me like it could be perceived as promoting Coca Cola, instead of promoting CoH. Once that happens, we just force-fed an unwanted ad on our players. In that specific case, the more likely situation is we pay Coca-Cola to produce cans of “Sprunk” which isn’t very likely.


Why I Don’t Talk More About What We’re Doing
There are a few reasons why I don’t go into specifics regarding marketing initiatives.
· I like offering concrete responses to serious questions. If I can’t, I’d prefer not to waste your time with speculation.
· We’re working on it, but it’s not locked in stone. Any news is better than no news, right? Not if the signal to noise ratio is askew. This is usually resolved with time.
· There are legal restrictions, particularly when partners are involved. This can be resolved when the dotted lines are signed.
· I’ve already answered the question.
· It’s a fine line, providing the answers you want, versus offering speculation. The more I get to know all of you, and the more you get to know me, the better I expect our communications to be.


Cash Contests
We have no plans to hold contests with cash rewards.


My Forum Lifespan
I plan to be on the forums for a while. There may be times when I may wish to run away in tears, but I think that’s a fair price.


PS – I did say non-existent booster pack.

-Hosun "Black Pebble" Lee
Help me beat Dr. Aeon! Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/hosunl

 

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Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
Guest Authors
If you know Piers Anthony, I’ll talk to him.
The guy who wrote the Xanth books? I remember reading those in grade school. I sent him a short story once.

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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

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Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
Standalone Costume Creator
Obviously, this was before my time. It’s not a bad idea but if it was easy enough to execute on I’d have to think that it would have been done a long time ago.
Actually, if I recall correctly it WAS done a long time ago in connection with the defunct Korean version of CoH. A long obsolete version by now even if you could find it of course, but it's doable apparently.

Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade View Post
Actually, if I recall correctly it WAS done a long time ago in connection with the defunct Korean version of CoH. A long obsolete version by now even if you could find it of course, but it's doable apparently.
The safest thing I can say here is that anyone like me who sometimes spends hours in the character creator has probably had at least one instance where after spending all that time creating the perfect new character finds they can't log it in because something happened like an hour ago they shut the servers down for maintenance and they aren't connected to anything anymore.



An' that's all I got to say 'bout that.

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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade View Post
Actually, if I recall correctly it WAS done a long time ago in connection with the defunct Korean version of CoH. A long obsolete version by now even if you could find it of course, but it's doable apparently.
Yep, I remember this too. There's a fair chance I still have it lying around in a backup someplace. But a standalone costume creator did indeed exist at one point. I don't recall the reasons we were given why there was never a US version tho.

EDIT: FOUND IT!!!

 

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Originally Posted by Black Pebble View Post
Standalone Costume Creator
Obviously, this was before my time. It’s not a bad idea but if it was easy enough to execute on I’d have to think that it would have been done a long time ago.
You really should ask the Devs there about that than assume, because, you're wrong.

There was a standalone CC released for Korea. It was downloadable and playable in the US for anyone who knew how to edit the regional registry field. It was updatable for anyone who knew how to manipulate the pigg files.

The reason given at the time as to why they wouldn't release it in the US was the whole Marvel frivolous lawsuit thing and the fear that a standalone costume creator would allow people to create infringements that Cryptic couldn't police.

Which is an absurd argument to begin with since Cryptic can't stop us from making infringements with crayons and paper. And any infringements we made with a standalone CC wouldn't be known about until we brought it into the game which, at that point, would be subject to the same review and genericization that a brand new infringement made in the regular CC would be. Anyway, that's now ancient history.

Again, anyone who would use such a standalone CC freely available would be so tempted to click on the big red button that takes them to a trial account so they can see their creation in action.... it would be a big draw.

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Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
You really should ask the Devs there about that then assume, because, you're wrong.
Settle down man. He does make a good point. If you didn't know the Korean creator once existed (for all of like a month) then I think his reasoning is valid.

Now that we can actually save costumes and import them later the idea of a standalone creator might actually have more weight (and be more useful).