Hello from Paragon Marketing
Since it sort of got overshadowed some how by the "more comics" suggestion I want to repeat...
I want a LORE book of some sort that tells us lore information. Not Mechanics information... And this is different from paragonwiki because paragonwiki focuses on mechanics and has lore as a side thing more or less that just happened to be a part of other information gathered rather than focusing on it...
You really should ask the Devs there about that then assume, because, you're wrong.
There was a standalone CC released for Korea. It was downloadable and playable in the US for anyone who knew how to edit the regional registry field. It was updatable for anyone who knew how to manipulate the pigg files. The reason given at the time as to why they wouldn't release it in the US was the whole Marvel frivolous lawsuit thing and the fear that a standalone costume creator would allow people to create infringements that Cryptic couldn't police. Which is an absurd argument to begin with since Cryptic can't stop us from making infringements with crayons and paper. And any infringements we made with a standalone CC wouldn't be known about until we brought it into the game which, at that point, would be subject to the same review and genericization that a brand new infringement made in the regular CC would be. Anyone, that's now ancient history. Again, anyone who would use such a standalone CC freely available would be so tempted to click on the big red button that takes them to a trial account so they can see their creation in action.... it would be a big draw. |
I don't think it was ever really confirmed that the reason why there was no US version had anything to do with the Marvel suit. Even if the community team said it (and I don't recall that they did) its illogical because its not like Korea has no copyright laws. The app would have been just as much of an infringement there as here. If it was an actual legal threat, they should have *immediately* pulled the thing completely. But they didn't.
I have often wondered if the real problem was that the internationalization or localization team or whatever for the Korean version simply didn't have *authority* to make that thing, and that made it a sticky wicket.
In any case, while the KCC is a proof of concept, it can't be just patched to the latest set of costume parts. It just can't. But as I mention above, it doesn't have to be.
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Smartphone Apps
I think mass acceptance of mobile apps for MMOs are inevitable. Its trickier in the US due to the competing technologies. Its not just Windows Mobile vs. iPhone vs Android. Its CDMA vs. GSM. I think thats one of the reasons why smartphone usage in the US is not as widespread as it is in other parts of the world. |
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I don't think it was ever really confirmed that the reason why there was no US version had anything to do with the Marvel suit. Even if the community team said it (and I don't recall that they did) its illogical because its not like Korea has no copyright laws. The app would have been just as much of an infringement there as here. If it was an actual legal threat, they should have *immediately* pulled the thing completely. But they didn't.
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In any case, while the KCC is a proof of concept, it can't be just patched to the latest set of costume parts. It just can't. But as I mention above, it doesn't have to be. |
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I actually know how you can make smartphone apps available without actually developing them - it involves creating an API for smartphone developers to use. Things like being able to read in-game email (but not send for obvious reasons), see if your friends are online, etc. PM me if you want more details, I don't really want to post something long and derail the discussion here on a fairly minor point.
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One of the things I had forgotten about it until I went looking for it again was the fact that the KCC had an emote interface. You could see your character playing various emotes on command. This was years before we had the ability to play power animations in the character creator which only came along due to the need for that interface for power customization in I16 (although the emote interface made its first return earlier in Issue 14 in the critter creator of the Architect).
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But man, this thing really doesn't like Windows 7. It runs, but it's like trying to coax a burro.
It's (sort of) been said before, but... more videos*. Here's why...
I don't know if you were following the PAX EAST thread when that was going on, where folks were posting Tweets about what was happening at the panel for those who couldn't attend. When the dev team showed the video for Kinetics Melee, that sucker was on YouTube in NO TIME FLAT (thanks to enterprising players with cell phones), and the players went nuts when they saw it. Same for the Demon Summoning video.
Your Facebook shows a six-second teaser for GOING ROGUE. In just a couple of hours, there were over 50 comments of players clamouring for more. (And come on, guys - six seconds? WTH? Teaser length could be 30 seconds without giving too much away, while still giving enough flavour and hints to have players going "GIMMEGIMMEGIMME!")
But I'd like to clarify this on a couple of counts:
1) Don't just make it showing off powers where they're obviously not HITTING anyone. The awesomeness of Dual Pistols was somewhat overshadowed by laughter that a player was firing at POINT BLANK RANGE at opponents and MISSING. Let's see them in action, but REAL action.
2) More of the "here's how we make things" vids - it's a useful insight for the playerbase to see what goes into bringing the neat things from concept to completiong.
3) More vids in general - way back when, there were at least a couple of videos per issue (ESPECIALLY when COV came out). They don't take that long, especially if it's just the "run in and film stuff" variant.
4) Film the M&Gs, and get them up on YT ASAP. There is absolutely NO excuse for it taking FOUR MONTHS to get a 1-minute video up about HeroCon 2009. NONE. Get SOMEONE with a videocamera to stand in the back, film the M&G and the panel, upload it to someplace where Marketing can watch it and security-vet it, then get that thing on YouTube as quickly as possible. That would go a LONG way for showing players that can't make it that you still want them to feel 'involved'.
*This isn't a "hire me" post. You've got someone already - David's a good guy AND a good videographer. He has lots of great ideas (he and I spent HOURS talking at HeroCon 2008 and 2009 about videos and ideas and ads and whatnot). UTILIZE HIM. PLEASE. Expand his team if you have to, but you're already paying for server space and bandwidth, and YouTube is free. Turn him loose on making vids and make them shareable.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
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You have a point DR, but remember that Paragon Studios is a relatively small company. They stick with us because they love us (The playerbase) and we need to cut them a bit of slack here and there. Hopefully Going Rogue will be very heavily endorsed as the best MMO on OS X (Truth) via Steam, and we see a huge surplus of newbies.
(BTW, I honestly think it is the best MMO that exists, but I don't think people really know how fun it is. Maybe we can take it on ourselves to make little youtube videos or something showcasing how awesomely simple and amazingly customizable CoH is? Food for thought.)
You have a point DR, but remember that Paragon Studios is a relatively small company. They stick with us because they love us (The playerbase) and we need to cut them a bit of slack here and there. Hopefully Going Rogue will be very heavily endorsed as the best MMO on OS X (Truth) via Steam, and we see a huge surplus of newbies.
(BTW, I honestly think it is the best MMO that exists, but I don't think people really know how fun it is. Maybe we can take it on ourselves to make little youtube videos or something showcasing how awesomely simple and amazingly customizable CoH is? Food for thought.) |
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
It's (sort of) been said before, but... more videos*. Here's why...
I don't know if you were following the PAX EAST thread when that was going on, where folks were posting Tweets about what was happening at the panel for those who couldn't attend. When the dev team showed the video for Kinetics Melee, that sucker was on YouTube in NO TIME FLAT (thanks to enterprising players with cell phones), and the players went nuts when they saw it. Same for the Demon Summoning video. Your Facebook shows a six-second teaser for GOING ROGUE. In just a couple of hours, there were over 50 comments of players clamouring for more. (And come on, guys - six seconds? WTH? Teaser length could be 30 seconds without giving too much away, while still giving enough flavour and hints to have players going "GIMMEGIMMEGIMME!") But I'd like to clarify this on a couple of counts: 1) Don't just make it showing off powers where they're obviously not HITTING anyone. The awesomeness of Dual Pistols was somewhat overshadowed by laughter that a player was firing at POINT BLANK RANGE at opponents and MISSING. Let's see them in action, but REAL action. 2) More of the "here's how we make things" vids - it's a useful insight for the playerbase to see what goes into bringing the neat things from concept to completiong. 3) More vids in general - way back when, there were at least a couple of videos per issue (ESPECIALLY when COV came out). They don't take that long, especially if it's just the "run in and film stuff" variant. 4) Film the M&Gs, and get them up on YT ASAP. There is absolutely NO excuse for it taking FOUR MONTHS to get a 1-minute video up about HeroCon 2009. NONE. Get SOMEONE with a videocamera to stand in the back, film the M&G and the panel, upload it to someplace where Marketing can watch it and security-vet it, then get that thing on YouTube as quickly as possible. That would go a LONG way for showing players that can't make it that you still want them to feel 'involved'. *This isn't a "hire me" post. You've got someone already - David's a good guy AND a good videographer. He has lots of great ideas (he and I spent HOURS talking at HeroCon 2008 and 2009 about videos and ideas and ads and whatnot). UTILIZE HIM. PLEASE. Expand his team if you have to, but you're already paying for server space and bandwidth, and YouTube is free. Turn him loose on making vids and make them shareable. Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
I agree... I don't see how one could even argue it would take a long time to do a movie. Assuming one is familiar with demo code and all the various commands or have a very comprehensive list of what can and can't be done one could very easily make almost anything within minutes... Seriously... You could in theory do an entire movie with demo code fairly easily if you knew the commands well enough and were that good with cutting and working with positioning...
I see no reason to not go balls out with videos...
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I thought so, too. However, I'm afraid we'd end up like Chairface Chippendale and just end up getting the first two letters engraved.
That would be awkward. As for how to get players to join. I have some ideas, but I'd rather hear yours. I will say that give them lots of money is not a viable option. |
Getting the game back onto store shelves would be a good start. It's been forever since I've seen any version of CoX among the masses of other PC games hording all the room on the shelves. It seems these days it's only really being advertised online and even then just on the NCsoft sight. There's so much other stuff crammed onto the internet, that unless you're looking for it, you might not come across CoX.
Cross promoting...
Sprunk Cola ... talk to Coca Cola have them make real Sprunk Cola and you can advertise it in game, which you already do. Limited time only... you get free advertising and we get a limited edition pop, plus Coke gets a free advertising in the game... |
Since it sort of got overshadowed some how by the "more comics" suggestion I want to repeat...
I want a LORE book of some sort that tells us lore information. Not Mechanics information... And this is different from paragonwiki because paragonwiki focuses on mechanics and has lore as a side thing more or less that just happened to be a part of other information gathered rather than focusing on it... |
Thinking of it... 2? 6 years of gaming and developing and we have 2 books about it´s story. TWO!? There´s some book series that go around for like 10, 20 or even 50 (!) paper back books in that time! I mean, how many Animorphs there were? Speaking of it, K.A.Applegate is great on this stuff of series and I can see a niche that could be explored in here... Did you guys ever tried to talk with the people at Scholastic?
And again... Pen and paper RPG man. Really. That would be great for us geeks and nerds when we´re travelling or without electricity to play the Online game. Steve Jackson Games is my favorite on that and probably could be talked about doing this. I mean, they have GURPS Wild Cards; GURPS Horseclans; GURPS Myth and even GURPS Scarlet Pimpernel! It´s not like they´re doing something completely new to them...
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But I completely agree with everything else you said, and feel very strongly that it needs to be repeated over and over until NCsoft gets it. This game needs to be advertised in the same way that all other successful MMOs advertise: with ads on gaming websites. WoW, EVE and LotRO all spam their adds all over sites like MMORPG.com. What rationalization does NCsoft have for not doing the same? After all, they're spending the money to make an expansion, yet the company seems to have zero interest in actually selling boxes and making a return on the investment. They advertised the hell out of Aion, and we all saw the massive hype machine that surrounded it as a result. Why not try the exact same tactic for CoX?
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"Looks can be deceiving" - Statesman (in Memoriam)
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An even greater Convention presence might be good. Hire four or five new employees who reside in the four corners of the u.s. (and maybe a fifth in southern Ontario), whose sole task is to visit the many various conventions which take place and offer a Paragon Studio presence.
Maybe hiring new people isn't the most cost effective way to do it, but I figured it'd be cheaper than flying people from your HQ all around your country, and possibly beyond.
Hi.
I am taking notes on a lot of the ideas I’m seeing on the forums. A couple of the ones in this thread are compelling enough where I am looking into them. Once I have more information, I’ll update you on them. Feel free to keep tossing out new ideas. Here’s my feedback on some of the things you have brought up: Standalone Costume Creator Obviously, this was before my time. It’s not a bad idea but if it was easy enough to execute on I’d have to think that it would have been done a long time ago. Guest Authors If you know Piers Anthony, I’ll talk to him. Smartphone Apps I think mass acceptance of mobile apps for MMO’s are inevitable. It’s trickier in the US due to the competing technologies. It’s not just Windows Mobile vs. iPhone vs Android. It’s CDMA vs. GSM. I think that’s one of the reasons why smartphone usage in the US is not as widespread as it is in other parts of the world. It’s also why building an iPhone app may be pretty cool, but if you don’t make an Android, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, etc. version, you just cut out every Verizon, T-Mobile and Sprint customer in the US. It’s not impossible, but offering the same functionality across platforms is tough, particularly when you’re not reaching the majority of your customers. Heck, even on Android, you still have folks running on 1.6 while others are rocking 2.1. And the apps aren’t universally compatible between versions. Winding back to my point, I agree, an Android/Windows Mobile/iPhone CoH app would be pretty neat. It can be nearly as difficult, or even more challenging, then building out entirely new functionalities within CoH. At that point, we need to decide – is this app worth giving up some new feature we have planned? I believe at some point, there’s at least a chance that the answer will be yes. Free Comic Book Day We’ll consider it for next year. More CoH Comic Books They’re fun to do but they are difficult to manage. You guys remember how often your copies would get lost in the mail, or trashed by the postal service? That’s the least of the hurdles. Print comics are a good visual aid, but the resources they require and time they take don’t make them a realistic initiative any longer. We went digital with our comics for a while and while I doubt very much we’ll start that up again, I’ll at least look into it. “Sprunk” Cola It sounds to me like it could be perceived as promoting Coca Cola, instead of promoting CoH. Once that happens, we just force-fed an unwanted ad on our players. In that specific case, the more likely situation is we pay Coca-Cola to produce cans of “Sprunk” which isn’t very likely. Why I Don’t Talk More About What We’re Doing There are a few reasons why I don’t go into specifics regarding marketing initiatives. · I like offering concrete responses to serious questions. If I can’t, I’d prefer not to waste your time with speculation. · We’re working on it, but it’s not locked in stone. Any news is better than no news, right? Not if the signal to noise ratio is askew. This is usually resolved with time. · There are legal restrictions, particularly when partners are involved. This can be resolved when the dotted lines are signed. · I’ve already answered the question. · It’s a fine line, providing the answers you want, versus offering speculation. The more I get to know all of you, and the more you get to know me, the better I expect our communications to be. Cash Contests We have no plans to hold contests with cash rewards. My Forum Lifespan I plan to be on the forums for a while. There may be times when I may wish to run away in tears, but I think that’s a fair price. PS – I did say non-existent booster pack. |
To defray costs, make the CoH comic digital vice paperback (ANY CoH story that involves its main characters to be seen in action for ALL TO SEE via a website is a DOUBLE PLUS GOOD move!!). Marvel ran a stint with 'motion comics' for a few characters; an idea there using newer styles/technology to promote CoH? For Free Comic Day, print out one of the digital comics created in the interim of between now and next year? Don't slow up getting a digital COH comic out; especially if its free for new players to see on the CoH website!
'Sprunk' Cola sounds too much like Coca Cola? Fine; make it "Sprunk" Soda, then! Solved!
Until you resolve contest issues where certain locations/regions/states CAN'T participate (i.e., Paragon City's own exempt home state of Rhode Island for example), cash prizes are moot. Fix the gaps in participation with legal first to get everyone to participate, THEN figure out how to promote NEW CoH merchandise item prize contests on a MONTHLY basis! That fills two holes for you: 1) Draws continuous interest to the game; 2) fills the gaps between issues with something to do other than Ocho and Avatea working their keesters off with forum games.
Instead of rolling out negatives, where are the positives? What ARE you doing instead of NOT doing? Which suggestions are on the 'yep, we're following that suggestion' path? "Why I Don't Talk More About What We're Doing" instead creates a one-way path of interaction. For effective communication, you need TWO way communication; the more in depth the details, the more information and ideas gets conveyed. I've worked on jobs with security clearances, and I know what and when NOT to say or do things; your excuses are pale in this regard. Be part of the solution, not put up more barriers.
You know as well as I that you don't go into a meeting with "I can't do that". You have to go in with SOLUTIONS. WHAT ARE YOUR SOLUTIONS HERE? These forumites have provided tons of input, and I know it takes a bit to filter through, but to be honest, I don't think you're shooting for the stars, but instead shooting at the floorboards. Change your sight goal; there are hundreds of suggestions that are free to do or relatively cheap to produce, yet all I'm seeing you post about are negatives and a bunch of 'can't do's'. Shift your goal sight UP, get some solutions rolling and get in the game.
A high majority of your company's players give 110% (and with some incredible vet players, 200%) of their time and repsonses towards this product, what with beta testing, insightful inputs on the forums, quality player-made videos, dynamic player-made comics, thousands of fan websites and so on; why can't you and your team put in an equivocal effort?
In my job, I expect people to give 110% and to strive at a level at least one step above their current station, just as I've done my whole life. Do the same. If you keep focusing on this as a 'job' instead of a 'commitment', your efforts will continue to reflect this.
Ok, this may have turned into a motivational 'get moving' post, but dammit, there are some fantastic players and devs working hard here, and we want to see the same level of effort out of marketing. That's all. You're interaction here on the forums is a start; don't diminish it.
First star to the right, and straight on 'til morning - shoot for that goal, not the floorboards!
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Also
More CoH Comic Books: Theyre fun to do but they are difficult to manage |
Comics are only difficult to manage when you don't have money and/or a company to back you. You have both.
Also after rereading your post I'm really disappointed with you as your answers were... I don't know, If someone else does it, No, Maybe, No, No, No, No, I'll be around a while. And at least one idea was ignored.
Here's the thing... in reply to every point you made...
You should know and we already have it...You guys just need to make it an official US/UK thing...
I think you missed the point of Guest Authors. The whole point is to promote known and unknown talent within the community. Not Known talent outside of the community.
I know people who make them for fun. They're cheap and easy to make. The lore book, Enhancement guide, character creator, and a number of other things would make great smartphone apps (though not exclusive to them) These are not full time projects either. They take more or less a one time bid on a project they just have to be up to some requirement that allows the data to be managed later on without the programmer... or you can just take one of the coders and put him on it for a short while...
ok >.>
Again that's bull...
I wasn't talking about Sprunk specifically... I was talking about crosspromoting. Exchange ad space in game for advertisement elsewhere, like tacobell or what not. Sprunk was just an example of such a cross promotion.
the rest are all ok...and already understood by a majority of people... here's the thing...some advice. Positive, as in that's an awesome idea, let me look into it or We're workink on it or even just "that's a cool idea" is always better than saying NO. If it's an absolute no, ignoring it is far better than giving a reason for that no unless people harp on it. This is because a Yes or Maybe is always better than a No in terms of PR and Nos are often taken as lies later on when something does make it possible to do. Yeses and Maybes are more forgettable to so while they seem more concrete and hardlined they are less so than a No because a No is memorable and you piss people off both in the now and in the future when it becomes a Yes...
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