Why is Going Rogue Being Doled Out Piecemeal?
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2010-03-31 07:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It's exactly the same as any other pre-order of something. But better in this case, because we get to play with some of the stuff in it a little earlier. |
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
But you think its okay if they take a consumer's money for preorders in March, with the promise of having full access to the product in July, and THEN announce after taking that money that the last piece of the product won't be available until MUCH later (at least 4th quarter 2010 or first quarter 2011).
I'm so glad you feel they're entitled to my money 9 months before they actually deliver the whole product. |
When you pre-order a console-based video game, you plunk down a portion of the money, and you still don't get to play it until it releases. This way, the parts of what you pre-ordered that are READY are accessible right away.
If you don't feel like they deserve your money now....don't give it to them. Those of us that did feel they deserved it will get to play with the stuff YOU will have to wait another 9 months to play with.
Seems pretty simple to me.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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They already got my preorder money.... thanks.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It's exactly the same as any other pre-order of something. But better in this case, because we get to play with some of the stuff in it a little earlier.
When you pre-order a console-based video game, you plunk down a portion of the money, and you still don't get to play it until it releases. This way, the parts of what you pre-ordered that are READY are accessible right away. If you don't feel like they deserve your money now....don't give it to them. Those of us that did feel they deserved it will get to play with the stuff YOU will have to wait another 9 months to play with. Seems pretty simple to me. |
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it's only a problem if you're impatient like most of us |
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
The final 10 lvls weren't promised as part of COV, the retail box product, so that's fine.
Ultra mode was promised as part of GR, another retail box product, and now its not and in its place is PART of a new yet wholly different content update as equal substitute but the rest of it won't be available until 3 to 6 months (or more) after the retail box becomes available. THAT is something totally different than Grandville and COV; THAT is bait and switch substitution that occured AFTER consumers paid forward on a preorder and the promise of getting a COMPLETE retail product in July. And that is a big problem (or its going to be very soon). |
depending if the costume pieces are something I want...they might get another $10 out of me.so...$30, 4 power sets, new enemies and content
When was Ultra Mode announced as part of the next issue and when did they open up prepurchase?
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Actually, they were. They promised us a standalone game like City of Heroes, which assumed a full level range. City of Villains did not launch with a full level range.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
The final 10 lvls weren't promised as part of COV, the retail box product, so that's fine.
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| Ultra mode was promised as part of GR, another retail box product, and now its not and in its place is PART of a new yet wholly different content update as equal substitute but the rest of it won't be available until 3 to 6 months (or more) after the retail box becomes available. |
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| THAT is something totally different than Grandville and COV; THAT is bait and switch substitution that occured AFTER consumers paid forward on a preorder and the promise of getting a COMPLETE retail product in July. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm seeing 2/09/10 as the date they said UM would be in I17...now when did prebuy start?
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the final 10 levels werent promised as part of cov? really? they didnt promise that you would have a full and comparable experience to hereoes? really? nonsense, it is the same thing. and again, it was widely known that ultra mode could come earlier than gr, heck, perfect pain(as i reference earlier) made several threads to that effect, if you werent aware of that, then that was really a case of consumer diligence. there was no bait and switch, and anyone who has been gaming for a period of time knows that timeframes can change, but at this point we are getting everything we had expected for gr when the pre-order was announced at the time gr launches, we simply are also getting a part of the eventual endgame with it as well, one that was not promised as part of gr at the time preorders started. if you can find me a quote saying that gr will be shipped with a new endgame, then please do so and i shall be thus contradicted, otherwise, you are complaining about a bonus.
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
The final 10 lvls weren't promised as part of COV, the retail box product, so that's fine.
Ultra mode was promised as part of GR, another retail box product, and now its not and in its place is PART of a new yet wholly different content update as equal substitute but the rest of it won't be available until 3 to 6 months (or more) after the retail box becomes available. THAT is something totally different than Grandville and COV; THAT is bait and switch substitution that occured AFTER consumers paid forward on a preorder and the promise of getting a COMPLETE retail product in July. And that is a big problem (or its going to be very soon). |
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Except Ultra Mode was never "flagged for retail". They could have never released DP or DS early, put Going Rogue on the shelves in July, and guess what would have happened for the people that didn't buy it? They still would have gotten Ultra Mode.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
You're spinning the facts a bit, my dear.
Before Issue 17 was announced, Ultra mode was promised as a major feature of the retail expansion pack, Going Rogue. When Issue 17 was announced, that was no longer the case. So off the retail pack came Ultra Mode and in its place comes the first level of the Incarnate system (with the other 9 levels to come at a late date). Keep in mind this announcement comes in Spring 2010 when GR was provisionally scheduled for release (and is now pushed back to July). So this "swap out" of upcoming features is seemingly a last minute decision (and this is after 2+ years of development mind you) - but for what reason? |
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
But you think its okay if they take a consumer's money for preorders in March, with the promise of having full access to the product in July, and THEN announce after taking that money that the last piece of the product won't be available until MUCH later (at least 4th quarter 2010 or first quarter 2011).
I'm so glad you feel they're entitled to my money 9 months before they actually deliver the whole product. |
I don't know where you learned math, but I'm counting 4 months from pre-purchase, to the release of Going Rogue.
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3/02/2010, according to Niv's announcement.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
I'm seeing 2/09/10 as the date they said UM would be in I17...now when did prebuy start?
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EDIT: Also, Ultra Mode's existence wasn't even mentioned in the 05/11/2009 Going Rogue promo email.
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So... you're upset because you paid for X which was to be delivered some few months down the road.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
They already got my preorder money.... thanks.
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Instead, you're getting part of X now, part of X when stated, and a bit of Y at the same time.
And you're griping because the rest of Y, which wasn't even part of what you initially paid for, won't be coming with the rest of X.
You're getting more than you were told you were getting and you're griping about it.
That says much about you.
Be well, people of CoH.
Obviously, they are dolng it out in bits because if they hold everything back until i19's likely release, everybody would get bored. Issues 13, 14, and 15 were basically the same way.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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Issue 17 was announced on the 9th February and the prepurchase for GR started 2nd March. So nearly a month apart!
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Originally Posted by LISAR
When was Ultra Mode announced as part of the next issue and when did they open up prepurchase?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Basically this. As long as GR has enough shiny things in it to make me want to go there, then im happy!
| I'm not complaining - I get UM, I get it for free (well, apart from what I pay for the game, of course), and I get it earlier. And as long as GR still has lots of spiffy new uber stuff, I'm happy. |
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So let me get this straight. You pre-purchased Going Rogue, knowing almost nothing about what was going to be in it, other than you will get access to two brand spankin' new powersets early, and that it will have new zones and content (and at the time of announcement 1-20 content at that,) and a couple of costumes.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
They already got my preorder money.... thanks.
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Then you find out that, wait for it... we're getting two more powersets, new enemies, AND Incarnates, and now you #### and moan about it?
TJ's got the quote laying around here somewhere...
"The game could spit out $20's and people would complain that the serial numbers weren't sequential."
Yeah...
Ultra Mode was not "promised" as part of the retail purchase... (Those tricky rat bastards!).
Honestly, I feel like Lightslinger answered everything perfectly in the first reply to the OP.
Seeing the ignoring of the clear truths and the sort of responses to other things here and there... I'm referring to the good advice Admiral Ackbar once dolled out...
Anyways... I'd contact the Better Business Bureau, get my money back, write an angry letter and contact the local news outlet with your story! 
The theory that Ultra Mode was swapped out and replaced by the Incarnate stuff is odd.
And, if you paid money for imaginary reasons (Whatever you were imagining would be included with the retail purchase... whether it was Ultra Mode, an Incarnate System which they hadn't told us about or whatever else was not yet released [And, I bet there's more they still have not told us])... I have an imaginary bridge I'd like to sell you!
Seriously though... this is shady business being done here.
No one ever said animated tails would not be a purchasable addition!!
Now we get it for free??? See what they're doing here?? 
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Ultra Mode was not promised as part of GR at the time when the option to pre-purchase GR was made available. We were told that Ultra Mode would be included in I17, for free, when we were also given the option to pre-purchase GR.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
The final 10 lvls weren't promised as part of COV, the retail box product, so that's fine.
Ultra mode was promised as part of GR, another retail box product, and now its not and in its place is PART of a new yet wholly different content update as equal substitute but the rest of it won't be available until 3 to 6 months (or more) after the retail box becomes available. |
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| THAT is something totally different than Grandville and COV; THAT is bait and switch substitution that occured AFTER consumers paid forward on a preorder and the promise of getting a COMPLETE retail product in July. |
Furthermore, no-one was told about Incarnates at all until a few days ago. The announcement of that content in GR is not bait and switch because it is not being offered as a substitute for anything. It is an information update to let us know a bit more about what we're getting in GR, nothing more and nothing less.
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| And that is a big problem (or its going to be very soon). |
The developers didn't say, "Buy GR, it's going to have Ultra Mode", take your money, then turn around and say, "Oh, we're pulling Ultra Mode out of GR, but we're giving you Incarnates instead". Nor did they say, "We're giving you ten Incarnate levels with GR", then change their pitch to "Well, we'll give you ONE Incarnate level with GR, then nine more later" after you paid for GR. No-one even knew about Incarnates until a few days ago, and hand-in-hand with that announcement came the information about the additional Incarnate levels in I19.
There is no bait and switch here. Your complaint is invalid.
To answer to multiple jabs and comments regarding "where was it said exactly that Going Rogue was to include Ultra Mode, the answer is HeroCon.
It came out of HeroCON. Its documented in the keynote speech, the youtube video, the many spinoff threads on this very forum asking what pc requirements folks needed to run ultra mode when Going Rogue went live. Massively had a pr piece on it being a special feature of GR; Paragon Wiki even credits Ultra Mode as being originally slated for Going Rogue before it was revised for I17 release...
Stop with the mob mentality, stop attacking the 5 year vet forum outsider for asking questions, and stop pretending that events and announcements regarding the inclusion of ultra mode in Going Rogue. I may not be a closed beta/forum darling like some of the usual suspects we see around but I am. A 5 year game veteran; I am a paying customer and I did pay for my preorder just like everyone else purely out of love for the game.
And now I'm disappointed, and concerned and I'm asking a tough question because I need a better answer about what's happening here. There have been a lot of great improvements and advancements in this game in five years but a lot of silly mistakes too that wasted time, money and resources needlessly that could've been avoided if someone had just asked the right questions...
Belittling me to find a fault of mine to attack is not going to detract from the bigger question that's on a lot of people's minds (both those who pre-ordered and those who are thinking about buying back in).
After two years of development and impressive promotions and staffing increases, why is Going Rogue being pieced out over a 9 month period from preorders in March to end game content in 4th quarter 2010 or worse, 1st quarter 2011?
NC(whatever its called now) doesn't have to answer this question but it'd be nice if they could. Its not my reputation that matters for delivering (or repeatedly failing to deliver) quality gaming products (because Aion and Tabula Rasa have been such great successes) but please please please don't start ******* up City of Heroes when its really one of the last, greatest MMO products on the market right now.
Now please, somebody, civilly answer the original question: what happened that caused Going Rogue to be doled out piece by piece? Cause if it really is down making the company's bottom line look better, I'm outta here.
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They're trying to give you (everyone) everything they can as soon as they can.
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
Now please, somebody, civilly answer the original question: what happened that caused Going Rogue to be doled out piece by piece?
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No one here will have a definitive answer for that question, barring Posi or BAB dropping by to weigh in. But if you love the game as you say, and this is enough to cause you to toss your toys out of the pram, then perhaps it'd be best if you moved on. It seems that no one else is seeing this as a problem.
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
Now please, somebody, civilly answer the original question: what happened that caused Going Rogue to be doled out piece by piece? Cause if it really is down making the company's bottom line look better, I'm outta here.
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Then cancel your sub. You're not going to get better answers than you've been given.| Now please, somebody, civilly answer the original question: what happened that caused Going Rogue to be doled out piece by piece? Cause if it really is down making the company's bottom line look better, I'm outta here. |
Pre-orders are a good way to get quick cash.
Ultra-mode progress occurred faster than expected so they decided to get it out early. Getting stuff sooner than expected makes most people happy.
GR is an expansion based on a new world to explore with 20 levels of new content and a way for existing players to switch sides.
Incarnate levels were not known to be coming by anyone until the PAX thing to my knowledge.
If the fact that you're getting MORE than you were told you were getting and some of it SOONER than expected bothers you so much, cancel your subscription in revolt.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Actually when it was announced for GR, it was ALSO said that if they can get it out earlier than GR, they would.
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
You're spinning the facts a bit, my dear.
Before Issue 17 was announced, Ultra mode was promised as a major feature of the retail expansion pack, Going Rogue. When Issue 17 was announced, that was no longer the case. So off the retail pack came Ultra Mode and in its place comes the first level of the Incarnate system (with the other 9 levels to come at a late date). Keep in mind this announcement comes in Spring 2010 when GR was provisionally scheduled for release (and is now pushed back to July). So this "swap out" of upcoming features is seemingly a last minute decision (and this is after 2+ years of development mind you) - but for what reason? |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I was just about to make this same comment.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Actually when it was announced for GR, it was ALSO said that if they can get it out earlier than GR, they would.
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I wasn't AT Herocon, but I did listen to all the podcasts and clearly remember this caveat.
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I believe the devs have said, from time to time, that there are certain decisions they make where they feel that if people quit over them, they wouldn't have been able to retain those people anyway.
Releasing features as soon as they're ready, instead of holding off until they can all be released at once, is probably one of those decisions.
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I remember telling it to my SG during a SG meeting. I'm one of the few in my SG who reads the forums and even one of the fewer who frequent it often, so I'm always giving them info when it's released to everyone.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
I was just about to make this same comment.
I wasn't AT Herocon, but I did listen to all the podcasts and clearly remember this caveat. |
One of the things I'm not sure on howevre, is if the only way to access the new powersets is by buying GR, or if they'll be available once GR comes out, to everyone, but they'll still lack access to Praetoria.
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I was super excited when they first annouced GR but after time that excitement turned to frustraion. They have released so little about what GR actrually is, only a few new factions and powers and nothing about this supposed 'end game content'. Now they say the end game isn't even coming with GR but maybe not till 2011 ugh.
They are doling it out in pieces because even they know this is taking way to long and people are growing bored with nothing to do. So may as well give them something anything. That's my thoughts anyway.
and I refuse to pay for something that I know so little about.