Why is Going Rogue Being Doled Out Piecemeal?
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2010-03-31 07:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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But its not more than I was told, and its not sooner than I expected. I was led to believe the Going Rogue would be a complete retail product ready for release in Spring 2010 and now its just setback after setback with compensation features to make up for the last minute delays (which is fine, and I'm pleased with the quality of the content being proposed - if and whenever it actually shows up). |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Then cancel your sub. You're not going to get better answers than you've been given.
Pre-orders are a good way to get quick cash. Ultra-mode progress occurred faster than expected so they decided to get it out early. Getting stuff sooner than expected makes most people happy. GR is an expansion based on a new world to explore with 20 levels of new content and a way for existing players to switch sides. Incarnate levels were not known to be coming by anyone until the PAX thing to my knowledge. If the fact that you're getting MORE than you were told you were getting and some of it SOONER than expected bothers you so much, cancel your subscription in revolt. |
In the meanwhile, Id like to know "why all the delays when you have more resoures than you ever had before?" We definitely saw more done with less in years past (Ouroborous is a shining example so forgive me for having different expectations as a result.
Besides I'm not really going to cancel; I am however going to assume that Castle and BABs are having a very good laugh along with the rest of you guys at the expense of my stupid post, but I know what happens when constan setbacks interfere with the bottom line (which is when Ill be the one laughing, and I say that after having been laid off twice in one year myself). So go ahead and take my hard-earned money anf monthly fee and burn it. It doesn't mean much to you but in these hard luck times they certainly mean enough to me (and I chose to spend them here). Remember that and be kind (rather than condescending).
Thanks.
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The four new powersets (Pistols, Demons, Elec Control and Kinetic Melee) all require having GR. It was stated explicitly at PAX-East
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Originally Posted by BrandX
One of the things I'm not sure on howevre, is if the only way to access the new powersets is by buying GR, or if they'll be available once GR comes out, to everyone, but they'll still
lack access to Praetoria. |
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Things GR is required for:
Access to Praetoria
Switching sides
Four new power sets
The Incarnate system
Which means that if you don't own GR, I19 is gonna seem really content light 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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And now we can see why marketing exercises such tight control over what information is released when. Personally, I would like to receive information earlier, even if it is less reliable and more subject to change. But there are those who treat anything anyone related to the development of the game says as a promise that things will be just as they understand what that person said. In the presence of that mindset, saying as little as possible becomes the best strategy.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
This might help clear up some confusion about what what said and when: [...]
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In other words: the OP is why we can't have nice things.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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Incorrect. |
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
You're spinning the facts a bit, my dear.
Before Issue 17 was announced, Ultra mode was promised as a major feature of the retail expansion pack, Going Rogue. When Issue 17 was announced, that was no longer the case. So off the retail pack came Ultra Mode and in its place comes the first level of the Incarnate system (with the other 9 levels to come at a late date). |
At - was it the prior Herocon? When it was first announced, they said *flat out* that if Ultra mode was ready earlier, it would be released earlier. It was not "Only with GR."
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No, honestly, there was nothing funny in this thread.| I was led to believe the Going Rogue would be a complete retail product ready for release in Spring 2010 and now its just setback after setback with compensation features to make up for the last minute delays (which is fine, and I'm pleased with the quality of the content being proposed - if and whenever it actually shows up). |
By the by, Spring runs from Mar 20 to Jun 20. If GR doesn't go live before Jun 20th, your case will have merit. If it does not, then all your angst was for nothing. Incarnate levels don't count. They were NEVER mentioned prior to PAX.
Be well, people of CoH.
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You know, it's things like this that explain why sites like these had to be created.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
But its not more than I was told, and its not sooner than I expected. I was led to believe the Going Rogue would be a complete retail product ready for release in Spring 2010 and now its just setback after setback with compensation features to make up for the last minute delays (which is fine, and I'm pleased with the quality of the content being proposed - if and whenever it actually shows up).
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You can explain it to them again and again until you're blue in the face, but they won't ever be convinced. They've made up their minds and they're just trying to wear you down until you "admit" they're getting cheated.
Indeed, when I was working retail, there were several times when I was trying to give the customer a bargain, but they wouldn't have it! They were actually satisfied with paying more for less. As long as it all fits with their preconceived views of the world, they are happy. It boggles the mind.
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Yes - it was at Hero Con 2009 in October last year that they said ultra mode would be possibly a separate update if they could get it done in time.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Incorrect.
At - was it the prior Herocon? When it was first announced, they said *flat out* that if Ultra mode was ready earlier, it would be released earlier. It was not "Only with GR." |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I like how you left off "but the developers stated early on that if they finished it early, they would release it early."|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
Paragon Wiki even credits Ultra Mode as being originally slated for Going Rogue before it was revised for I17 release...
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| And now I'm disappointed, and concerned and I'm asking a tough question because I need a better answer about what's happening here. |
The simple answer is, "The Devs' work on Ultra Mode went faster than expected and they want to give it to ALL of their paying customers as soon as possible."
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| why is Going Rogue being pieced out over a 9 month period from preorders in March |
Also, because it's good buzz in the news outlets who are oft very quick to overlook the reigning king in favor of the new upstart.
Also, because Marketing hates us.
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| to end game content in 4th quarter 2010 or worse, 1st quarter 2011? |
B) This assumes inclusion of the Incarnate System was always intended.
Would this be as much an issue if they had not included the first level of the Incarnate System in GR and instead saved it all for Issue 19?
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| Now please, somebody, civilly answer the original question: what happened that caused Going Rogue to be doled out piece by piece? |
Ultra Mode got spun off because it's a new shiny that everyone's excited for and the Devs wanted to get it out ASAP. It wasn't integral to GR, so it went out early.
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| Cause if it really is down making the company's bottom line look better, I'm outta here. |
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
In other words: the OP is why we can't have nice things. |
And replies like yours are why I, the OP (and others) prefer to have NICER things (aka more complete gaming experiences and more reliable information). Sorry if you prefer to settle for less. But hey, at least you won Dev brownie points. That should get you into closed beta real fast.
Gratz.
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
And replies like yours are why I, the OP (and others) prefer to have NICER things (aka more complete gaming experiences and more reliable information). Sorry if you prefer to settle for less. But hey, at least you won Dev brownie points. That should get you into closed beta real fast.
Gratz. |
A little paranoid, I believe!
But "nice" does not mean "fits into some OCD sufferer's narrow view of perfection that makes his neurons fire in the correct patterns."
Well, it might for you, but obviously not everyone else. Thank the gods the devs are intelligent and realize this.
EDIT: Wait, what others?
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Actually, cold hard cash gets you into the GR beta - either long term subs, or prepurchasing it |
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
And replies like yours are why I, the OP (and others) prefer to have NICER things (aka more complete gaming experiences and more reliable information). Sorry if you prefer to settle for less. But hey, at least you won Dev brownie points. That should get you into closed beta real fast.
Gratz. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I think a better question is, why are you lumping a lot of things announced at Hero Con, into Going Rogue? Not everything you mention was specifically listed as part of GR.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
Sorry but the question's gotta be asked. The way things are looking now players have to:
- Buy in early to get early access to Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning - Wait until July and get access to four zones, 7 new costume sets, 2 additional powesets (parts of which we've previously seen in-game for NPCs), and level one access to the new incarnate system - Wait until 4th quarter 2010 to get the remaining 9 levels and the new endgame system and perhaps another high-level zone (but only if we buy GR 3 months earlier). And in the meanwhile, Ultra mode which was flagged for retail is now free. And in its place comes an awful lot of last minute bait and switch improvements. My question is: why? Why not just package it together in one retail expansion and let players enjoy? The way its all piecemealed out now, players might as well wait until 4th quarter to get Going Rogue and enjoy it all in one go rather then buying in now and waiting 9 months to get the full product? This just seems like a really weird business model somehow... What's the logic behind it again? |
As for I17 and Ultra mode, it exists because the devs heard people when they told them that over half a year was kinda a long dry spell between issues. Since UM was going to be an upgrade for the game as a whole there's no reason not to make it part of a free update if it's ready for prime time earlier. They even said as much at Hero Con. In other words, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
As for I19 and the rest of the post 50 system? A) they never said we'd get the entire system in GR, just a new way to develop our 50s (which is what we get). I19 is just the expansion of that system to its fullest, kind of like releasing the last 10 levels of Hero and Villain in a FREE ISSUE a few months after release. Do you know how long those levels are going to take? I don't. There's no reason to expect we'll even need them before I19 a few months later.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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The only thing I'll disagree with is that "post 50 advancement" was indeed mentioned at HeroCon, but nothing more than that was said about it. Anyone assuming that meant it was part of GR was doing just that, making an assumption.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
This might help clear up some confusion about what was said and when:
May 11th 2009 - E-mails announcing Going Rogue are sent out to players, mentioning only the GR system and Praetoria - no mention is made at all of ultra mode or endgame content. May 12th 2009 - NCSoft puts out a press release about GR - more info on Praetoria is given, along with details about Desdemona and Maelstrom. Still not a single word about graphics or endgame content. June 19th 2009 - Positron confirms that I16 will not be GR. July 13th 2009 - Positron announces Duel Pistols and Demon Summoning will be in GR. Still no word on any endgame content. October 24th 2009 - Massive new amounts of info on GR announced at Hero Con - lots of Praetorian info, and a first look at ultra mode. Ultra mode is announced as part of GR, with no new Issue planned until the release of GR, but the devs also say that if the graphics are ready first, they might be able to make them into a separate pre-GR Issue. Still no word on any endgame content. February 18th 2010 - Issue 17 is announed. Ultra mode will now be a separate feature from GR. March 2nd 2010 - The GR prepurchase program goes live. March 27th 2010 - At PAX East, I19 is announced, with an outline of the new endgame system. The two stand out things here are first, ultra mode was already announced as part of I17 before the prepurchase program began, and, second, endgame content has never been promised, or even talked about, as a part of GR. |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Ah yes, when proven wrong or misinformed, instead of saying "Oh, I see", you've taken the time-honored road of self-righteousness and standing up against The Man.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
And replies like yours are why I, the OP (and others) prefer to have NICER things (aka more complete gaming experiences and more reliable information). Sorry if you prefer to settle for less. But hey, at least you won Dev brownie points. That should get you into closed beta real fast.
Gratz. |
Just like the last time you ranted about something or other and threatened to quit.
Don't hate on me, bro. I need all the dev brownie points I can get. I just can't take the stress of all the personal attention the devs are paying me. I saw Castle on my lawn last night peering into my window. When he was sure he had caught my eye, he set fire to a little doll of my favorite character. I have been intimidated into supporting this game. Please send help - oh god, BABs is behind me aaaaaaaaaaaaa
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
The only thing I'll disagree with is that "post 50 advancement" was indeed mentioned at HeroCon, but nothing more than that was said about it. Anyone assuming that meant it was part of GR was doing just that, making an assumption.
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weather people are making assumptions or not they do seem like good assumptions. GR is this whole new part of the game who wouldn't come to that conclusion that end game is included, especially when you yourself just said they mentioned post 50 advancement was mentioned at herocon.
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How would "more reliable information" (given the information given has been pretty damn straightforward) help if you can't be bothered to read the whole thing? (Like the "Will be released earlier if it's ready earlier" for UM?)
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
And replies like yours are why I, the OP (and others) prefer to have NICER things (aka more complete gaming experiences and more reliable information).
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here's the key of it for me. Who exactly led you to believe this? Was there some email or press release none of the rest of us saw? Or was it just that you gathered pieces of info from various sources over the course of weeks and months, and came to an erroneous conclusion because you got things mixed up and misremembered?
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Originally Posted by Rubberlad
I was led to believe the Going Rogue would be a complete retail product ready for release in Spring 2010
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Which any reasonable person would know doesn't mean specifically GR. Yes GR was the keynote aspect of the Convention. Yes, a lot of the information drop had to do with GR. But not everything, and there were a ton of other panels and groups where tidbits were dropped over the course of the weekend that had nothing to do with GR.|
Originally Posted by Lucky
weather people are making assumptions or not they do seem like good assumptions. GR is this whole new part of the game who wouldn't come to that conclusion that end game is included, especially when you yourself just said they mentioned post 50 advancement was mentioned at herocon.
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You may think it was a good thing to assume, but even I as a person who wasn't there made very careful checks on what was mentioned for GR and what was mentioned for the future of the game as a whole.
Besides as I said in my full post, launching an expansion and leaving off the latter portion of it so that there's more time to polish it before the playerbase actually needs it, is typical of this dev team. If I were to look at history and not have the info I had other than the fact that there was an expansion and post 50 content, I'd actually quite quickly assume that only the first part of it was going to be launched right away.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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1: The Going Rogue info that was presented at Hero Con 2009 that you love to refer to listed GR's scheduled release as the second quarter of 2010. Tomorrow, April 1, is the first day of the second quarter of 2010. They are right on schedule.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
I was led to believe the Going Rogue would be a complete retail product ready for release in Spring 2010 and now its just setback after setback with compensation features to make up for the last minute delays (which is fine, and I'm pleased with the quality of the content being proposed - if and whenever it actually shows up).
|
2: What setbacks? What delays?
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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Well, it has been pushed back to July, so that's 3rd quarter - but maybe by only a few days.
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
1: The Going Rogue info that was presented at Hero Con 2009 that you love to refer to listed GR's scheduled release as the second quarter of 2010. Tomorrow, April 1, is the first day of the second quarter of 2010. They are right on schedule.
2: What setbacks? What delays? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Just wondering...
What's the total price of the retail version of Going Rogue?
Does the $29.95 pre-purchase amount represent the full price, or is there a further cost above that to have been considered to have purchased the retail version?
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Im pretty sure $29.99 is the full price
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Originally Posted by KnightOwl
Just wondering...
What's the total price of the retail version of Going Rogue? Does the $29.95 pre-purchase amount represent the full price, or is there a further cost above that to have been considered to have purchased the retail version? |
This might help clear up some confusion about what was said and when:
May 11th 2009 - E-mails announcing Going Rogue are sent out to players, mentioning only the GR system and Praetoria - no mention is made at all of ultra mode or endgame content.
May 12th 2009 - NCSoft puts out a press release about GR - more info on Praetoria is given, along with details about Desdemona and Maelstrom.
Still not a single word about graphics or endgame content.
June 19th 2009 - Positron confirms that I16 will not be GR.
July 13th 2009 - Positron announces Duel Pistols and Demon Summoning will be in GR.
Still no word on any endgame content.
October 24th 2009 - Massive new amounts of info on GR announced at Hero Con - lots of Praetorian info, and a first look at ultra mode.
Ultra mode is announced as part of GR, with no new Issue planned until the release of GR, but the devs also say that if the graphics are ready first, they might be able to make them into a separate pre-GR Issue.
Still no word on any endgame content.
February 18th 2010 - Issue 17 is announed. Ultra mode will now be a separate feature from GR.
March 2nd 2010 - The GR prepurchase program goes live.
March 27th 2010 - At PAX East, I19 is announced, with an outline of the new endgame system.
The two stand out things here are first, ultra mode was already announced as part of I17 before the prepurchase program began, and, second, endgame content has never been promised, or even talked about, as a part of GR.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork