Can someone explain how the LRSF is balanced?
By
all_hell,
Posted on: 2009-12-29 18:30 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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This makes me wonder about those MM's then. The first (and only so far) time I've ran the LRSF was on a bots/traps mastermind. I recall losing a fair number of pets and having to resummon, but it wasn't anything remotely like your description, and I was the only MM on the team. We were also successful without using temp powers or any kind of special team composition, although we did have a teamwipe or two.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Well, I know for a fact that they weren't.
It didn't help that both MMs seemed to suffer horribly at the hands of lolAoEs, from one or other of the phalanx. Running in, standing back; eitehr way, the pets died. Fast. And then the MMs followed. |
All these folks baffled by how could you fail!
I want them to show up one night to my Server(Virtue). Then I want to make them Leaders of PuGs(no friends of theirs, nadda). I'll find people for em, then send them on their merry way.
Odds are they are going fail, plain & simple, trust me, I wont build them a team of Fail, I'll find all proper things, but I WILL NOT, give them a Mind Dom, I shouldn't give em a Stone Brute. We'll see what they can do then.
Cuz Honestly, I have failed LRSF more then I've ever won it. I've never done the MOSF(we came so damn close once, then Statesman who's Acc is floored & our Defense is in its 70s) Somehow manages to pull some crazy super punch of doom & dropped 1 Corr in 1 hit.
So yah, I get kinda of tired of folks belittling folks who are unhappy or have many epic fail attempts at this SF. Obviously it has issues, because so many folks wouldnt bemoan about it, especially since its a lower Merits value then STF(That usually a lulz cake walk)
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
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Seriously, If they hated villains then they would hate money. I doubt that is the case, so please drop this stupid devs hate villains crap. It's old, tired, untrue, and makes people think that CoV is second rate, when it is really superior. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The truth hurts
 |
And to Quote Back Alley Brawler, they are the same damn game.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
Oh yeah, quick tip on the RSF with MM's
The Assault Bot, Oni, and Arsonist are best left out of the last mission. They tend to make the heroes scatter which makes aggro control more difficult.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
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Comments like this and "the game is too easy" really cheese me off. It's so insulting. If you ever failed it, even once, then saying that the team members just need a pulse is false. Just because you've done it a hundred times with characters that hit the soft-cap with IO's long ago doesn't mean it is an easy task. It just means you've found a team that makes it look easy. It's an illusion.|
Originally Posted by Reiraku
You should have been able to breeze by that unless half of your team didn't have a pulse.
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I've never run this SF but frankly the stories about multiple team wipes and pets that can't stay alive ring a lot more true to me than the stories about how easy it is.
I haven't really gotten into IO sets but the more I hear "game is too easy" and "we ran the ITF in 8.5 minutes" the more I want to avoid them so it never gets that way for me. Even if it means I'll never manage to finish the LRSF at least I'll still have exciting times playing the content.
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Well what do you know, we picked Virtue as a secondary server. Most of us have RSF ready characters there and plan on starting runs there very soon. Should I look you up? Honestly, as a group it has been a very long time since we failed. No Mind doms have been used, and we have used every type of brute that there is. I assure you that it is not easy, but after doing it three to four times a night for a few years, we have have it pretty down pat.|
Originally Posted by JJDrakken
All these folks baffled by how could you fail!
I want them to show up one night to my Server(Virtue). Then I want to make them Leaders of PuGs(no friends of theirs, nadda). I'll find people for em, then send them on their merry way. Odds are they are going fail, plain & simple, trust me, I wont build them a team of Fail, I'll find all proper things, but I WILL NOT, give them a Mind Dom, I shouldn't give em a Stone Brute. We'll see what they can do then. Cuz Honestly, I have failed LRSF more then I've ever won it. I've never done the MOSF(we came so damn close once, then Statesman who's Acc is floored & our Defense is in its 70s) Somehow manages to pull some crazy super punch of doom & dropped 1 Corr in 1 hit. So yah, I get kinda of tired of folks belittling folks who are unhappy or have many epic fail attempts at this SF. Obviously it has issues, because so many folks wouldnt bemoan about it, especially since its a lower Merits value then STF(That usually a lulz cake walk) JJ |
There is no way that I am going to PuG that on a new server yet.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
Fact is. this sf is one of a handfull of sf/tfs that is still and thankfully very hard to complete if u dont have the right team make up.
so its a luck of the draw (pul really hehe) and some planning. so what, thats whats so enjoyable about it. just wish the rewards was abit better
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This is my only theory to support your "zomg wipe" situation; that somehow, someone aggro'd early and Numina started buffing everyone. Once the buffs are up, they're considerably harder. But if your friends are competent like you claim, and you managed to pull Numina first for the drop without her buffing around, then I don't know how you could've failed unless lack of communication, skill or exhaustion had done you in.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I don't know wether Numina managed to multi-buffeveyone or something. *shrug*
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We run the LRSFs regularly on Freedom. The Master runs are a different story, but either way, I don't think we've ever failed one for at least 2009. Simple LRSFs take about 40 mins on average. Masters about an hour for careful work.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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Only if that perma-dom is played by someone intelligent. I've been on a RSF with a non-intelligent player and they were unable to keep the AVs perma-slept (that sounds weird). In the end, we just rushed em.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
One point I would make
A Mind perma-dom trivialises the final mission |
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Re: You're screwed if you dont have the 'Right' stuff.|
Originally Posted by Dr_HR
still and thankfully very hard to complete if u dont have the right team make up.
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That's my beef with it. Im not saying that it should be 'Easy'. The other missions weren't 'Easy', but we were a competant team. The last mission just ate us alive.
So there is a difference between 'Not Easy' and 'Cheatmode for the NPCs'.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I was one of the MMs |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
This makes me wonder about those MM's then. The first (and only so far) time I've ran the LRSF was on a bots/traps mastermind. I recall losing a fair number of pets and having to resummon, but it wasn't anything remotely like your description, and I was the only MM on the team. We were also successful without using temp powers or any kind of special team composition, although we did have a teamwipe or two.
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The only time I had problems in the rest of the SF was when I did something a tad daft, like try and take on a Spines/regen Warden, only to realise he had two buddies jsut around the corner, who then canned me. The other MM was Bots/Pain, who faceplanted even less then me during the rest of the run. About...once or twice? When we were fighting the other Heroes/Large mobs with multi-Wardens.
So...we only found the last mission hard/impossible. And we had been doing great up until that point. *shrug*
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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If you ran in with Vengeanced shivans and got murderlized, I really don't know what to tell you. Either you had some really epic bad luck, or your team's effective DPS (including -regen and -DR) was somehow too low even including the Shivans, which really shouldn't be possible. These sorts of things are ways speed RSFs are run. As in you don't actually need them to win, it's how you do them to win as fast as possible.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
By all accounts, we should have been fine last night.
But we were'nt. We had Two Brutes, Two MMs, and (irrc) Four Corrs. We had an awful lot of defence. We went for Numina first. We died. No, correct that, were were slaughtered. So, we attempted to rushgank them. That failed badly too. Slight detour via Bloody Bay. Shivans, got someone to faceplant, Team TP, vengance, attack with Shivans. |
It's got to be a matter of lack of familiarity or something like that.
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Red
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Originally Posted by Turgenev
This is my only theory to support your "zomg wipe" situation; that somehow, someone aggro'd early and Numina started buffing everyone. Once the buffs are up, they're considerably harder. But if your friends are competent like you claim, and you managed to pull Numina first for the drop without her buffing around, then I don't know how you could've failed unless lack of communication, skill or exhaustion had done you in.
We run the LRSFs regularly on Freedom. The Master runs are a different story, but either way, I don't think we've ever failed one. Simple LRSFs take about 40 mins on average. Masters about an hour for careful work. |
To quote Turg...some of the RSF teams ive been on we took our time and when it came to the last mish we pulled accordingly Numina,Sister P and Posi are the ones that must, and I mean must go in order to have success.
If you ask me the Sf is working as intended. Its suppose to challenge you to bring your A game or go home.
Prometheus: ... so what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
Me: From a certain point of view?
Prometheus: You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on your point of view.
Me: You're right about that. Power Blast is very pretty from a certain point of view. But that point of view is not head-on. <Kaboom> - Arcanaville.
Thats the problem. We brought an A game. We tried to pull Numina. They weren't having any of it.
A few members of the team (about 3) were new, but the guy leading and the others had done it before. It wasn't a matter of lack of experience. Just...Bah, humbug it!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I think you should consider the possibility that my statement might not have been totally 100% serious |
Originally Posted by Vega
Seriously, If they hated villains then they would hate money. I doubt that is the case, so please drop this stupid devs hate villains crap. It's old, tired, untrue, and makes people think that CoV is second rate, when it is really superior.
And to Quote Back Alley Brawler, they are the same damn game. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Okay, gear change here. I'm not sure if you said this already, but: Is this a REGULAR problem with you and your A-Team? Or was it a single "whoopsie" circumstance?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Thats the problem. We brought an A game. We tried to pull Numina. They weren't having any of it.
A few members of the team (about 3) were new, but the guy leading and the others had done it before. It wasn't a matter of lack of experience. Just...Bah, humbug it! |
Whoopsies, they happen, even to the best of us. Call it chance.
If it's a REGULAR issue, and you've NEVER been able to get this with your team, even after knowing all the tricks, making sure you're all on the same page, etc? Then I gotta turn the mirror on you and your team.
If you want to transfer to Freedom while it's available and see a run, I can ask E-Man if he wants to get one going for demonstration purposes. No promises cuz of the holidays, but we have 'til the end of Jan before that "gift" disappears. Think about it.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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Actually, myself and the teams I usually run with are usually without or have very little in the ways of IO bonuses. I've only IO'd two characters of mine, neither of which have been on the LRSF (one being a hero, so it'd be impossible for them). I'm not saying it's easy by default. I'm saying that with a team load-out like Tech had, they REALLY shouldn't have had the problems they were. If a well played team can get the MoLRSF with less (only corr was a Kin and my SO'd Elec brute to tank), then he really should have pulled that off.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Comments like this and "the game is too easy" really cheese me off. It's so insulting. If you ever failed it, even once, then saying that the team members just need a pulse is false. Just because you've done it a hundred times with characters that hit the soft-cap with IO's long ago doesn't mean it is an easy task. It just means you've found a team that makes it look easy. It's an illusion.
I've never run this SF but frankly the stories about multiple team wipes and pets that can't stay alive ring a lot more true to me than the stories about how easy it is. I haven't really gotten into IO sets but the more I hear "game is too easy" and "we ran the ITF in 8.5 minutes" the more I want to avoid them so it never gets that way for me. Even if it means I'll never manage to finish the LRSF at least I'll still have exciting times playing the content. |
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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That saying had pretty much died around here until the board merger. I would like to see it die again, but you say it every chance that you get.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think you should consider the possibility that my statement might not have been totally 100% serious
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You don't like red side, fine. But every Villain related thread does not need "the devs hate villains
"That saying is like herpes, it spreads.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
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Pretty sure BAB has said it in jest, just like GG |
Originally Posted by Vega
Seriously, If they hated villains then they would hate money. I doubt that is the case, so please drop this stupid devs hate villains crap. It's old, tired, untrue, and makes people think that CoV is second rate, when it is really superior.
And to Quote Back Alley Brawler, they are the same damn game. |
Lighten up. "Devs hate ________" (usually "villains", but occasionally it changes as appropriate) is a board meme. Live with it.
...
Devs hate Vega.
>.>
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I'm glad to hear it doesn't take an IO'd team to do the LRSF.|
Originally Posted by Reiraku
Actually, myself and the teams I usually run with are usually without or have very little in the ways of IO bonuses. I've only IO'd two characters of mine, neither of which have been on the LRSF (one being a hero, so it'd be impossible for them). I'm not saying it's easy by default. I'm saying that with a team load-out like Tech had, they REALLY shouldn't have had the problems they were. If a well played team can get the MoLRSF with less (only corr was a Kin and my SO'd Elec brute to tank), then he really should have pulled that off.
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But saying the team only needs a pulse IS saying it's easy by default. My apologies since you didn't intend to ... umm... imply that.
Since I've never run that SF before I really had no business posting at all. I let my pet peeve get the better of me so I'll bow out now.
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The one time I was on a LRSF run was on my MM and I was told not to bother summoning pets at all. Eventually I volunteered to be Veng bait just so I could contribute SOMETHING to the SF. To this day it's the one badge that I would like to give back. I've never participated in a LRSF run, I was just handed the badge.
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Originally Posted by Vega
Oh yeah, quick tip on the RSF with MM's
The Assault Bot, Oni, and Arsonist are best left out of the last mission. They tend to make the heroes scatter which makes aggro control more difficult. |
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
I did the LRSF once on my Brute. We were a brute heavy-team with a Rad Corruptor and a bots mm of some kind. We didn't manage to pull it off. Was kind of aggravating to get through everything else and get stuck at the end... but it took several tries for me to get through the Statesman TF when it first came out.
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Having not seen the run in progress, it's hard to really pin down what happened, but I'd guess from your limited description that the majority of the issue centered around aggro management. I've beaten the TF several times with my SS/Inv brute serving as essentially the main tank. I failed it several times before I finally succeeded at it, but the usual brute tactic of 'go in and wail' generally doesn't work well. You need a brute who can also tank fairly well if you're going to go that route with it.
Luckily on the hero side, I play a tank who is basically a mirror image of my brute. Doing a lot of the normal 'tank' things with whoever you assign the main brute role will help a lot here.
It also helps to assume that at some point, the brute is going to lose aggro. That's why soft capping the defense and keeping the defense soft capped until at least four are down is pretty important.
A tray full of purples and explaining to folks how and when to use them judiciously helps a lot during this mission.
I usually go Numina -> Sister Psyche -> Positron. That order tends to solve a lot of problems.
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nope. I'll just take care of it.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Pretty sure BAB has said it in jest, just like GG
Lighten up. "Devs hate ________" (usually "villains", but occasionally it changes as appropriate) is a board meme. Live with it. |
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Devs hate Vega. >.> |
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
One point I would make
A Mind perma-dom trivialises the final mission
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617