What Are Heroes Running FROM?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-12-11 09:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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But, again, it's not really the argument here.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
This is a perspective thing.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Everyone has their own way of having fun. I don't like to stand around and mash buttons(fiteclub). I do prefer to finish a fight but I don't see anything wrong with someone taking off when they're close to dying. Breaking LoS and phasing are all valid tactics that should be used if the going gets rough. I don't see anything wrong with getting away from someone, recovering health/end and coming back for more since that's the other persons fault for not pursuing and finishing off the target.|
Originally Posted by Smurch
In any case, I have no tolerance for it from anyone. If you get into a PvP fight, finish it. Red or Blue, be a good sport and finish it.
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Originally Posted by Smurch
It's some kind of weird mindset of "I cannot lose a fight or I might DIE IN REAL LIFE!!!" It's some kind of false honor where denying your opponent a victory means you "win" when it's just plain jerk behavior.
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Originally Posted by Smurch
This game has PvP with no penalty. There's no reason not to give your opponent their deserved victory. It does you no harm at all. You lost in a match, it happens. You be a good sport and you shake hands (figuratively) and go about your day. I don't get the attitude of not being able to handle losing even once. These are the kinds of people I picture tipping over the chessboard as soon as they lose their queen. Sore losers, the lot of them.
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If you don't like targets getting away then the arena is the best place to go. Playing with friends and others that share the same interests as you will help you enjoy it more. Zones have many different factors that will most likely conflict with what some people enjoy. I go to zones when I'm bored for the chaos that can take place.
Also do you still play WAR and what server do/did you play on? I used to play but I can't afford multiple MMO's atm.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
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I can understand that. Sudden Death is a pain but only when you tie. The concept is nice and all but it doesn't work well in a game like this.
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Originally Posted by Smurch
I'll play in the arena as soon as we can toggle off Sudden Death.
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Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
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Was about to write the same.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Content that just happens to occur in a zone where PvP CAN happen doesn't make that content PvP. To be PvP content, you'd have to actually engage in PvP. Something can't be "player versus player content" if the player versus player part isn't part of the content. 100% of the mission to get a Shivan involves talking to NPCs, fighting NPCs, and interacting with objects. At no point do you have to fight players.
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Else someone could say if it's a badge, it's badge content and you shouldn't prevent me from experiencing my content even it's in a PvP zone. Yes, ridiculous, I know (and maybe not a perfect example, but I hope you see my point).
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Still I (and others) managed to get Immortal before they changed it. On my Defender!|
Originally Posted by Katie V
Ten million (the Unbreakable badge) is doable. If my calculations are correct, it'll take about as long as it'll take to purple out your Warshade. The problem badge was Immortal (used to be one billion points), which would have taken about 60 years of playing the game as intended.
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Ok, my activities to get it involved farming and that's probably what you mean with "playing the game as intended". And I agree, that the requirement for Immortal was probably too high when it was introduced to the game. We had discussions about it on the forum and I guess I'm not the only one who received a "working as intended" answer when he/she asked about it in a PM.
In the end I decided to get Immortal anyway. Not despite the high requirements but BECAUSE of them. It was one of the 3 rarest badges (Leader, Immortal, Empath; not including special badges like Bug Hunter) and you really needed to put effort into it to get it.
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Come on, Bill, that's not fair and you know it. Taskforces, the Architect and event content is STILL PvE content. PvP content is separate from all of these. Player vs. player content requires that an intrinsic part of the experience require opposing other players, which is simply not a factor any of the PvE ventures in PvP zones. Basically, they're PvE encounters with only the POSSIBILITY of other people interfering.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Content put into a task force is, unarguably, task force content.
Content in AE is pretty bluntly AE content. Content you can only get via events is event content. Yet content in a PVP zone .... isn't PVP content? Sounds double-standard-ish to me. |
Putting in PvE bait in PvP zones is a bad idea, because it misses the point of attracting people. And the point of attracting people is not to just get mobile targets in a PvP zone for the PvPers to take pot shots at, it's to attract people who WANT to engage in PvP. PvE content with little to no PvP connotation does not do that. It attracts people who have no interest in PvP whatsoever, and will therefore wait until the zone is empty, flee from battle and otherwise undermine the PvP aspect of the zone. You can't get more PvP traffic by adding more victims to the zones.
And, no. The notion that if only they tried it, they might like it is beyond false. Anyone who has ever been a kid should know that "try it, you might like it" does not work. People who do not wish to PvP will not change their mind by being coerced into a PvP zone.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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No. You don't get to tell people what to do. If they want to run, it's their right to do so. I have no tolerance for people feeling it is their right to tell me what "good sport" is and what I really should be doing. It's my game, I pay my subscription for it, and if I want to, I'll run from ever damn fight I start.
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Originally Posted by Smurch
In any case, I have no tolerance for it from anyone. If you get into a PvP fight, finish it. Red or Blue, be a good sport and finish it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, yes. Both because that's where non-PvPers encounter PvPers, and because the zones are logically where all the more jerkish PvPers will hang out. You can't harass a non-PvPer in the arena, or gang up on people who have non-PvP characters, or do most of the other things that the jerk faction likes. You can't even act too much like a jerk to other PvPers without them just deciding to not use the arena with you. The mechanics of a PvP zone are much more jerk-friendly.
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Originally Posted by Boomie
I really think that zones bring so much hate towards PvP and PvP'ers.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Haha and you need to play to get a decent toon to 50.|
Originally Posted by Boomie
You need to introduce me to this said friend. Also I need to get me a decent villain to 50 on Virtue so we can all go to zones together.
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Originally Posted by Boomie
I really think that zones bring so much hate towards PvP and PvP'ers. If you like to get your feet wet and try PvP, zones are the worst place to do it. It's a good idea to go to the arena with friends or a PvP'er that is willing to help you learn. I really don't frequent zones very often anymore but I still go there occasionally when I'm bored.
I'm not that great in PvP but hell, if it'll help change others point of view towards it in this game, I'd be willing to help others learn in the arena. |
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Very well said. I totally agree.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Come on, Bill, that's not fair and you know it. Taskforces, the Architect and event content is STILL PvE content. PvP content is separate from all of these. Player vs. player content requires that an intrinsic part of the experience require opposing other players, which is simply not a factor any of the PvE ventures in PvP zones. Basically, they're PvE encounters with only the POSSIBILITY of other people interfering.
Putting in PvE bait in PvP zones is a bad idea, because it misses the point of attracting people. And the point of attracting people is not to just get mobile targets in a PvP zone for the PvPers to take pot shots at, it's to attract people who WANT to engage in PvP. PvE content with little to no PvP connotation does not do that. It attracts people who have no interest in PvP whatsoever, and will therefore wait until the zone is empty, flee from battle and otherwise undermine the PvP aspect of the zone. You can't get more PvP traffic by adding more victims to the zones. And, no. The notion that if only they tried it, they might like it is beyond false. Anyone who has ever been a kid should know that "try it, you might like it" does not work. People who do not wish to PvP will not change their mind by being coerced into a PvP zone. |
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Multiple Choice Response: |
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
When you're running away (if you are one of the people who runs away from lower level villains), what exactly are you running away from? What are you afraid is going to happen if you don't?
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1. Villain cooties! Ewwww!
2. Maybe you should talk to your villains about Personal Hygiene. Here, this might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodorant
3. DO NOT WANT.
4. "Rossignol's curious, albeit simply titled book, the Origins of a World War, spoke in terms of secret treaties, drawn up between the Ambassadors from Plutonia and Desdinova the foreign minister. These treaties founded a secret science from the stars. Astronomy. The career of evil."
5. Obvious Rickroll
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Shoosh you. I am at least on vent right now.|
Originally Posted by The_Larker
Haha and you need to play to get a decent toon to 50.
Like I said you gotta get on.... |
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz. Saying a mission that has a PvP portion is not a PvP mission is like saying someone is asexual because you don't want to think about them having sex.
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No one is saying that.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Saying a mission that has a PvP portion is not a PvP mission is like saying someone is asexual because you don't want to think about them having sex.
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But the possibility of getting attacked by another player while running a PvE mission doesn't add anything to the mission and doesn't turn it into PvP content.
Btw, there's not a single PvP mission in this game, afaik (= there's no mission that requires you to defeat another player.)
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Of the four PvP zones, only a single one has a zone mission which has a PvP component at all. Collecting meteorite shards, leading scientists out and fighting signature NPCs and pillboxes are all PvE missions. Place them in a zone with PvP disabled, and they work absolutely identically to how they work in PvP zones. They are no more PvP than turning on the PvP flag in Steel Canyon would make Montague's missions PvP, or even the Steel Canyon Security Chief PvP.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Saying a mission that has a PvP portion is not a PvP mission is like saying someone is asexual because you don't want to think about them having sex.
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The simple fact is that just placing people in the same zone with the ability to hurt each other does not PvP make. For actual, interesting PvP to occur, you need to have objectives which put people in direct combat with each other, not just in the same general space where they can engage each other if they choose to, but for no real reason other than for the evulz. To carry forward your analogy, just because you place a man and a woman in the same room, it does not make it a sex scene. It takes a little more than just their basic presence.
Siren's Call has sort of the right idea. A player gets a bounty on his head and the other players score points by taking out the bounty. In so doing, the actual zone event has an integral PvP component that requires attacking another player to achieve. Beyond that, FPS games have experimented with competitive game modes since time begun. It's true that things like Capture the Flag, Domination and even Bombing Run can still play out without other people, but that misses the point, and in fact most of games won't let you even start matches on these game modes until a minimum number of players directly involved is present.
Collecting Shivans in Bloody Bay is in no way PvP related, but by association with the zone it's in. It doesn't even take you into enemy-controlled territory. It's an activity that you do outside of the confrontation that other people can come and prevent you from doing. The point in it is not to defeat other players, it's AVOID other players interfering with you. In order for PvP to be meaningful in the slightest, you need to make objectives which make people want to fight each other, not objectives where it's best to avoid other people.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yes it does make it pvp mission. If someone may possibly attack you another PC then it's turns into pvp that's it end of story. How can some of you even argue it once another person comes into the stroy that pve just turned into pvp. Argue till your blue in the face it won't make it other wise. Run all you want but maybe ask the person to chill out that is attacking you.|
Originally Posted by Myriad
No one is saying that.
But the possibility of getting attacked by another player while running a PvE mission doesn't add anything to the mission and doesn't turn it into PvP content. Btw, there's not a single PvP mission in this game, afaik (= there's no mission that requires you to defeat another player.) |
You pve people I notice freak out over broadcast when ever something doesn't go their way in pvp zone and then continue one making it even easier for everyone else to make fun of them.
Case in point wanna hear my story. Yesterday I just got a new blaster up to 47 and IOed out for pvp for I go to try him well what do I see almost instantly when I enter, Black scorpion and Lord Recluse so I drone there *** cause AV class NPCs have no place in a pvp zone. what do I get a pve start whining cause I just did this. My response don't tell me how to play. This went on for 5 minutes until a few others joined my side and just laughed at this fool.
Seriously wtf do people expect.(come on red jelly bean hehe)
So I guess I agree with all of you most people don't like pvp probably 99% so don't tell them what they should and shouldn't do in a pvp zone. If they wanna run let em and If they ask me threw a tell or whatever I will leave them alone. But if they start flipping out over broadcast cause something didn't go there way well I'm sorry but it's game over and they just became my number 1 target.
Ok just going to make a clarifying statements here:
I am not anti-PvP. I do not resent the existence of PvP zones or the fact that they contain PvE content. I have deliberately gone out of my way to participate in PvP in the past, and if I am attacked while doing PvE content in a PvP zone, I will fight back, IF I FEEL LIKE IT.
This is what it comes down to: If I feel like it. I won't join your task force if I don't feel like doing a task force right now. I won't go fight Rikti with you if I feel like fighting Malta right now. I will not engage in PvP if I don't feel like fighting another player right now. That's it. By entering a PvP zone I am giving you my consent to "ask" me to PvP you, just like by turning my "looking for Task Force" flag on I am giving you my consent to ask me to join your Task Force. But if I choose to say no, there is nothing you can do to force me to participate.
In a PvP zone, yes, you can try to kill me. I have the option of running away, or standing there and denying you any actual fight. If you consider killing someone under those circumstances fun, then congratulations, you win. But if you are looking for an actual fight, there is no way, absolutely none, that you can force me to fight you if I don't wanna.
Calling me a coward on the forums ain't gonna do it.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Saying that the zone objectives in PvP zones have a PvP portion is like saying that the same person is definitely having sex whenever you can't see them.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Saying a mission that has a PvP portion is not a PvP mission is like saying someone is asexual because you don't want to think about them having sex.
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Analogies are fun.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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You can collect shards by drilling the meteors or by taking them from defeated opponents. That sounds pretty PvP related to me. You don't have to fight other players but there is a direct PvP component to the mission. It's not just "Drill the meteors and if you want to beat some folks up purely for giggles along the way, go for it."|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Collecting Shivans in Bloody Bay is in no way PvP related, but by association with the zone it's in.
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I'm not a PvPer. Don't really have the mindset for it and want to worry about the perfect mouse/keyboard combinations and hopping like a meth addled squirrel all over the map to make myself harder to target and all that. But I can understand where the OP is coming from -- PvP in CoX is pretty benign and I'd probably at least give it a go if I was attacked while collecting shards. Back in games like Everquest where you'd lose gear or risk having your corpse camped by someone... nah. But in CoH there's really nothing to lose so why not.
I understand the "why not?" of "Because I don't want to ever!"... well, I understand that that's your reason and respect it. I just can't wrap my mind around it.
Something I see occasionally from PVP players who aren't total jerks is the "green eggs and ham" mindset. IE, that I must hate PVP because I haven't given it a chance, and if I'd just *try* it, I'd love it, because they certainly do. Trust me, this is not the case. I have tried it. Every attempt simply reinforces the fairly long list of reasons why I utterly hate that form of gameplay. Trash-talking jerkwads who think insulting someone over broadcast is fun are a big part, but hardly the main one. And the simple fact is, that if someone likes PVP, it's pointless for me to explain why I hate it. The concepts just don't seem to translate, in exactly the same way as I fail to understand how someone could actually enjoy it.
<QR>
Because most of the time, even if I kill them for being annoying, they will come back, they will spam broadcast, and they will get more to assist in bugging me.
I don't care how innocent or innocuous they may actually be compared to my above example, I assume they're just the in-game version of trolls. It's easier to not deal with the issue and move on.
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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Wouldn't that be showing them instead? |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
So, the next time you run into someone who is OBVIOUSLY trying to ACTIVELY avoid PVP, and you're not particularly there to PVP, stop harassing them and telling them your name is Richard.
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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This!|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
You can collect shards by drilling the meteors or by taking them from defeated opponents. That sounds pretty PvP related to me. You don't have to fight other players but there is a direct PvP component to the mission. It's not just "Drill the meteors and if you want to beat some folks up purely for giggles along the way, go for it."
I'm not a PvPer. Don't really have the mindset for it and want to worry about the perfect mouse/keyboard combinations and hopping like a meth addled squirrel all over the map to make myself harder to target and all that. But I can understand where the OP is coming from -- PvP in CoX is pretty benign and I'd probably at least give it a go if I was attacked while collecting shards. Back in games like Everquest where you'd lose gear or risk having your corpse camped by someone... nah. But in CoH there's really nothing to lose so why not. I understand the "why not?" of "Because I don't want to ever!"... well, I understand that that's your reason and respect it. I just can't wrap my mind around it. |
Even if I'm not a PvP'er, I support their right to kill PvE'ers in any PvP zone and I support your ability to run away, if you can. I didn't realize how fun PvP was until I began wondering why in the world my heart was pumping when I played Aion.
In any case, it is a moot point. It's risk vs. reward to a PvE'er, and many judge the risk as being worth it. It's just another wimp to a PvP'er and many judge the risk of getting whined at as being worth it.
edit: To clarify, I don't PvP in CoH for numerous reasons, but mostly due to its present state of balance. I expect my character to act and behave in a way I'm familiar with, and they do not in PvP.
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Actions speak louder than words.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
Wouldn't that be showing them instead?
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I'm not that great in PvP but hell, if it'll help change others point of view towards it in this game, I'd be willing to help others learn in the arena.