What Are Heroes Running FROM?

People engaging in PvE content should never have to engage unwillingly in PvP content. Game designers should never attempt to coax players into PvP zones with badges they need for accolades or powers; if there are such badges or temporary powers that can be attained in PvP zones, there should always be a PvE mission alternative that isn't in a PvP zone.

I don't know what cryptic was thinking with the model they created for PvP in this game. If they even seriously considered what they were implementing or if they were making a half-***** attempt at PvP content just to say they had it.

With that said... Most PvErs and RPers do not like PvP because in PvP there are Winners and there are Losers.

In both PvE and RP there is no forced engagement of another player. There is no fear of losing in a competition to another player; that's why this style of play is attractive to so many and PvP isn't.

I use the zones for farming as I've stated before. I engage PvPers as I would NPCs because my goal isn't to prove my skill in PvP (I'm a horrible PvPer) my goal is to farm them for PvP IOs. I tend to leave badgers and other zone farmers alone if they aren't attacking other players.

You know, the badges in PVP zones, and shivans and nukes aren't all necessary things you MUST have to play in PVE. You can play PVE all the way through quite successfully without getting any of those things, ever. They're not a requirement.

If you enter a PVP zone, you're consenting to PVP. By being there. You're warned in about 3 different ways that yes, you can be attacked by other players in the zone, and if you don't want to be attacked, please leave the zone. Yet you stay and complain about PVP when you just want your shivans.

You get no sympathy. If you go to a PVP zone, you can get attacked. You're consenting to being attacked by being in the zone, but implicitly and explicitly. If you don't want to be attacked DON'T GO INTO THE ZONE. It really is that easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

Actually it's opinion and perception.

One side says yes it's pvp because,it is in the zones and secondly they can steal your bounty.

The other side says no it's pve and should be removed.

PVP has always been a source of frustration for both sides(pvers & pvpers),everytime the topic comes up and lines are drawn.Shivans/Nukes are primarily used in tf's/sf's(at least that's what I use them for),and badges are collected by both sides.

A balance of sorts is in play,pvers go in when no one is there or take their chances to get what they feel is pve content.
Pvpers on the other hand get dead zones because the pvers far outweigh the population of pvpers.Sometimes there are conflicts and most times not,every pver has some horror story about a pvp zone(gankers/griefers/trash talkers,etc) that further alienates the pvp crowd.

PVP at best is a borked system in this game,there are no rules,no honor,and it's a anything goes playstyle.
If people run then good get the hint,they don't want to play pvp.Nothing is going to change and it's going to be a headache for probably the remainder of the game.

There is no easy answer for either side,if the pvers have a problem I suggest contacting Castle,starting a petition drive,w/e to get it changed.Otherwise this thread is going to keep going on with ppl finally getting pissed at each other,then it will get locked,with everyone right where they started from.
I personally don't care I have been in the zones badging,gettin temp powers,and have yet had anyone come after me in a long time.

Honestly, the amount of time spent on what is or isn't pvp or pve content isn't all that important, seeing as how most folks just wait till the zones and empty to go get their shivans/nukes.

So if the goal of putting those items in the pvp zones was to encourage pvp, I don't really think they accomplish it that well, when most folks just wait till the zones are empty.

Yet another strike against the pointlessness of content that has nothing to do with fighting being in a pvp zone. If I had it my way ALL content that doesn't require fighting other players would be stripped from the pvp zones. Including silly npcs.

Luckily I'm not a dev.

Back to the main point: If you go to attack someone and they run, it's YOUR job to catch them if you want to kill them. If you can't kill them before they leave the zone or phase, TOUGH! Maybe if your pvp skillz were better you could catch them. NOOB!



That last line was my interpretation of Siren's Call trash talk.

Probably the most intensely enjoyable moment I've had in the game was during a PvP session.

Having said that, let me go on to say that mostly I enjoy PvE, and that I think CoH has missed the boat on enjoyable PvP.

Confused? Let me explain.

I don't like arena matches very much. The basic concept and execution are fine; I like the interface and all the work that was put into it. But generally what happens, in my limited experience, is that in any match one or another configuration of toons has the edge based on a synergy of their powers. That's because there are generally only a few toons that are there, so it's pretty easy to figure out who the winning pairs are, and how they should coordinate. (Like, say, troller + scrapper: hold then shred.)

The ease of discovering a working strategy, or the speed with which you realize you have nothing available to counter the other team, makes the arena boring. You can try rotating team members, but usually it's just more of the same. (E.g., troller + blaster: hold then blast.)

PvP zones are, in my experience, even worse than arena matches. If you use the full latitude of what the zone offers, the basic winning strategy is to gang up on a toon. So if arena play tends to be predictable and boring because of its underpinnings, unrestricted PvP zone play tends to be like getting hit with - or escaping - an avalanche.

So what was the fun experience I had with PvP? It was a base raid.

What made the base raid fun for me was spontaneity and complexity. I was invited on the spur of the moment to a VG created specifically for the purpose of a base raid. I was told it would start in 30 min. with whoever they could gather. I didn't know anyone I was playing with, or anyone on the other team. I didn't know their powers. For the raid, we entered a base map, which was custom, so I'd never seen it before and didn't know how it was laid out. Bases, as well all know, are made up of relatively small rooms with reasonably wide but short hallways, so you can move through it okay, but there are lots of corners. It's fairly easy to enter and break line of sight. Also the hallways either merge around a central area or take you to a cul de sac. I thought it was fun having so many toons- there were quite a few - running around in a typical smallish base plot. It was mayhem!

In the base raid, in addition to the closely confined setting there are certain strategic areas or aspects. For example, there are the respawning points for the defeated players. Naturally, if you defeat a player you know they are going to respawn (or rez), and if you see several opponents go down at once, you know that possibly the next strong point of enemy activity is going to be in the respawning area.

Hallways, corners, and large rooms become tactically significant spaces. Turning a corner can protect you from one attack, but it can also end up exposing you to a new threat.

I think the devs should take the idea of base raids and make them a basis for PvP. I think they should keep the idea of players breaking base equipment for points, but I think after the raid the damage should "disappear," because ruining someone else's hard work is essentially griefing.

I also like the idea of having offensive and defensive devices in the base. In this way players can try to devise strategies for defending their bases.

I think that in this scenario, player kills/defeats can be counted for points for and against in that particular battle, but this shouldn't adjust the player's overall reputation. All healing, holds, accuracy debuffs, damage taken, and damage deflected or absorbed by shields should be counted for points. Exploitation would be avoided by taking the lowest point total of the two teams and using it as the basis of the primary mission reward to both teams (as xp, inf, prestige, merits, tickets, or whatever is appropriate). Individual numbers would be the basis of individual rewards, which would be smaller. If there are map objectives, then objectives accomplished would also count toward a team's reward.

In addition to player bases being used as staging grounds for team fighting, I'd like to see the safeguard / mayhem maps adapted for PvP team play, where each team has objectives that interfere with the other team. In this scenario, the villain team would always get the opportunity to pick 1 or more crimes to commit in the zone (bank, kidnap, jailbreak, etc.). They also pick entry and escape points from a list of possible entry/escape points. The heroes have to accomplish goals that block the villains. Some NPCs in the zone would aid the heroes, telling them what is going on and resisting the villains (e.g. bank guards), while some NPCs (zone villains) would impede them.

Again, both teams receive the main portion of their reward from the points earned by the lesser team, so this can't be exploited by having one team lay low, or having an overpowered team take on an underpowered team.

This sort of PvP scenario gives players more to work with, as player power strategies become secondary to the challenges of figuring out where the opposing team is going, how to feint or stealth to fool the other team, and how to escape or stop the escape.

I could see another fun scenario being a large tech or magic complex where the heroes and villains have to enter at starting points of their own choosing and fight their way past NPCs to achieve similar or the same goals. Again, the strategies come not so much from individual player powers (i.e., two teams facing each other on a featureless map), but rather from team facing the challenge of the terrain, the NPCs, and the location of the objectives and other strategic features.

To enable teams to form for these missions, I'd like to see the arena interface extended to where teams can submit their base as the arena map, or select a safeguard / mayhem map, etc.

I'd also like to see the arena interface extended for TF/SF recruitment and perhaps other forms of team play / recruitment. Players could put arena type interface units in their base or use the Arena or Information Booths placed in various city zones.

For the record, back in 2005 I thought we were going to get these features when CoV came out.