What Are Heroes Running FROM?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-12-11 09:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That's all that needs to be said. |
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
I just don't like PvP and I won't do it. Ever. |
I'm as baffled by folks who don't get why folks who don't like pvp won't do it, as the folks who don't like pvp are of why folks don't like pvp.
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See, most times I've seen that happen (someone asking, that is,) they've gotten - at worst - some good natured ribbing. (And in Siren's, someone will ask if they can kill them if they come up as bounty.) Yes, some people will be twits about it, but generally it's agreeable on either side. It's the people who come in *insisting* they be left alone, and that they have a right to be completely left out of everything PVP related, that end up in the middle of loud and long fights in broadcast and in the forums. |
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Bill, as a badger, I've never gone into a PVP zone and said, "All you PVPers have to stop fighting until I get my badges and leave, so play nice!"
I do request that they specifically leave me alone. That certainly doesn't preclude them from fighting other PVPers (or any Carnies that happen to be roaming about), but I ask that they leave me out of their game because I don't want to play it. If they insist on involving me, then I just leave the zone. This includes when I'm playing on my stab-happy Stalker; I just want the badges, not trouble. |
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
Ga-a-a-a-a-ahhhhchhh. That's the one thing I'll never do. Dueling in open PvP zones offends me the same way that the recipe/badge farmers taking oh-so-polite turns killing each other without fighting back do. They're both tremendously elaborate and badly improvised attempts to avoid actually playing the game the way it was designed. It's like playing chess against somebody but demanding that we prohibit castling and that we eliminate the mad queens rule (the rule that upgraded the queen from a spare king to the most powerful piece on the board) because "queens are stupidly overpowered, lol."
If I were looking for duels, I'd be hanging out in Pocket D by the Arena terminals. (And if PvP gave XP, like it did in WAR, I might well be doing just that. But that's an argument for another day.) I have nothing inherently against dueling. But that's not what Bloody Bay and Siren's Call and Warburg and Recluse's Victory are for. |
The point being - ask. And feel free to point out, afterward, what they did well, what they didn't do or could have done, and in general, *make it a pleasant experience so they aren't so unwilling to come back and fight again.* Of course, if they just don't like PVP and won't do it again - well, not much you can do about that but thank them for the fight if they gave you one. ("gf." Then explain you weren't saying anything about their girlfriend, or coming on to them.)
Edit:
Also, don't forget this IS mostly a PVE game. It launched with no PVP 'til issue 4, nothing really dedicated to it 'til COV... and you can go through the entire game without ever having to deal with it. Now, if this were Aion, I'd give you other reasons for running (my lvl 27-ish Ranger is not standing up to five or six buffed Asmodeians bearing down on her - but she'll happily eat the death and report their location, then watch as they're swarmed and killed off, then join in the hunt for their kisk.) But past a certain level, every zone has the potential for PVP. It's part and parcel of the game, unlike COH.
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The problem I have with this is that I don't want to be the one who shoots first. If I'm in a PvP zone and I see a villain I have no clue if he's a PvPer or a PvEer like myself there for badges/temp powers. In general I'd prefer to take the first strike, my odds of winning a PvP fight are pretty slim (I think I've won two fights) as it is and as a Blaster taking the first shot would help at least a little. But if the person in question is a PvEer then by attacking him I'm forcing him to engage in an activity that neither of us desires and so what's the point? |
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
From what people are saying here, I'm getting the sense that I've stumbled upon the cure for the common gank: show no fear. Don't try to hide, and if you see someone, attack them.
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As for running versus fighting, it really depends on the odds. Most PvPers I encounter are Stalkers, and in my experience if they don't win in about three or four attacks they almost always run away or hibernate so I'll generally fight them a bit until I die or they leg it. I tend not to exit the zone unless I'm heavily outnumbered in which case I'll leave and come back later (except RV, there I fight until I've died enough times to remember why I hate PvP).
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They signed up to have FUN. If they fall into the group that does not find PvP to be fun, why would they have even the SLIGHTEST motivation to stay around and fight?
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
But more to the point, didn't they sign up for this game to feel like superheroes? What kind of superhero runs away from a fight they can't lose?
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Said in a simpler way than I did.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
They signed up to have FUN. If they fall into the group that does not find PvP to be fun, why would they have even the SLIGHTEST motivation to stay around and fight?
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LOL!
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Oh I have np against pvpers,one of my best friends in this game is awesome.I have pvp'd before(pre13)and have had fun.My issue is that pve content shouldn't be in the zones,it is a pvp zone so why would badges be in there?It causes friction between the pve and pvp community.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Er - wow.
OK, first - don't complain about having PVPers engage you in a PVP zone. It's kind of the point of it. Second, the percentage I've seen is just about the reverse - most of the people I *have* met in there since the zones came out behave pretty well, with that last 10% just being the loudmouths (who will often end up finding someplace to hide if anyone actually stands up to them and they don't have friends around.) You're in one of the few areas they can play *their* game (PVP) and you don't want them to? If you had a - let's say, "Hunt Carnies in PI" mission, and an RPer asked you to stop because they're RPing "trying to make peace with them so they changed their ways," would you stop hunting any carnies in PI, or get a bit irritated that they kept trying to interfere and threatening to petition you for "griefing" their RP? You can't hunt the carnies in a mission - your mission says they must be in PI. You can't go *anywhere* else to do this. And someone else is complaining because you're trying to, because they're trying to do something that's a complete tangent to it. That's what you're doing by complaining about people engaging in PVP in a PVP zone, or expecting them to play YOUR game ("I'm here for badges, not PVP" - aka "I'm here to make peace with all the carnies!") when they don't have much choice in where they can go to play theirs. Now, yes, some things ARE unacceptable - I'd talk to that GM's supervisor if a group followed me out of the PVP zone to continue throwing insults and such. That IS harassment, by definition. Trash talking in the zone, there are other limits (but you still are subject to the "no racist/sexist/hate speech" bit.) Following you out to continue crosses all possible lines into harassment, though. |
In addition it was more of an explanation on some folks that I know and their experiences with zone pvp.I don't expect ppl to change their play style in a zone that was meant for such things and everytime I enter such zones I know that I take the chance of getting killed.
I understand your points and I agree,me and the wife regulary go into zones and do what we want and have rarely been bugged.Your right on your percentages I didn't read back on what I typed(10% jerks-90% good).But,I do know alot of ppl that have had bad experiences and refuse to enter these zones.Most of the time anymore they are empty anyways.
To the OP: if you want an "RP PvP" scenario, you should have behaved as such. (I assume you are, as you asked why a hero runs, not why a player makes their character leave.)
Challenge the hero in an RP way. Whisper behind them. Do stuff in character, they may play along. I they send a response like "I don't PvP" then they aren't into it. The issue, I think, with PvP is this: you say that, and the idea of a min/maxed character who play to win comes to mind. They don't go into character as much as pick fights. You can circumvent this assumption about you by showing that you're just interested in a fight, not pwning them. If a stalker pop up behind me and whispers "Aha, hero, you've fallen into my clutches!" I might play along for the heck of it. If someone simply comes by stabbing me in the back, I have no frame of reference, other than that I'm being stabbed. ....and when a player says something like "Run, noob, like the coward you are!" they're not being fun about it, and I'd have no interest in engaging in a fight with them.
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Okay, so there's another activity that doesn't fit YOUR NOTION of how to play the game. So? Some people find farming fun and do it for hours at a time. I tried it and found it boring.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
Ga-a-a-a-a-ahhhhchhh. That's the one thing I'll never do. Dueling in open PvP zones offends me the same way that the recipe/badge farmers taking oh-so-polite turns killing each other without fighting back do.
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| From what people are saying here, I'm getting the sense that I've stumbled upon the cure for the common gank: show no fear. Don't try to hide, and if you see someone, attack them. Since MMO players, by huge margins, are terrified of uncertainty and unpredictability and are unwilling to risk the possibility of the worst, doing so makes you just like that video I've seen on the Internet of a cat attacking and chasing off a bear. The bear knows that the cat is no harder to catch than a fish, and that it could bite the cat in half in one bite, but it runs away anyway, because it's thinking "the cat obviously thinks it could win this fight; it must know something I don't know"? |
But you still completely miss the point. "if you see someone, attack them." WHY? If someone doesn't like PvP, what possible motivation would they have to attack someone? It's not about fear. It's not about consequences. It's about NOT ENJOYING IT. 'Not fun' = 'time to go do something else that IS fun'.
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Some people just do not want to PVP.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
So, they're getting Shivans. We're still talking "fight you can't lose" territory here, practically, in both cases. So what they're doing is putting off recharging their Shivan Shard for 24 hours or more so they don't have to put it off for 15 or so seconds? How does that make sense?
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At all.
SERIOUSLY.
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| And even if they did lose the first fight, they'd be out, what, another minute, tops, since neither of them had their first fragment yet? How is running away and setting themselves back many minutes, maybe hours, more time-efficient? |
At all.
REALLY.
I mean it.
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| But more to the point, didn't they sign up for this game to feel like superheroes? What kind of superhero runs away from a fight they can't lose? |
Again, some don't want to PVP.
At all.
EVER!
Is this becoming clear?
So, the next time you run into someone who is OBVIOUSLY trying to ACTIVELY avoid PVP, and you're not particularly there to PVP, stop harassing them and telling them your name is Richard.
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My thing with badges in the zone has (IIRC) been fixed - they shouldn't have been required for accolades for one side, where the other side doesn't need them. That's really the only argument I've ever had against them being there. |
Originally Posted by The_Larker
Oh I have np against pvpers,one of my best friends in this game is awesome.I have pvp'd before(pre13)and have had fun.My issue is that pve content shouldn't be in the zones,it is a pvp zone so why would badges be in there?It causes friction between the pve and pvp community.
In addition it was more of an explanation on some folks that I know and their experiences with zone pvp.I don't expect ppl to change their play style in a zone that was meant for such things and everytime I enter such zones I know that I take the chance of getting killed. I understand your points and I agree,me and the wife regulary go into zones and do what we want and have rarely been bugged.Your right on your percentages I didn't read back on what I typed(10% jerks-90% good).But,I do know alot of ppl that have had bad experiences and refuse to enter these zones.Most of the time anymore they are empty anyways. |
Of course, we can get into "Is that really PVE content if it's in a PVP zone," which I don't think you'll ever have satisfactory answers to. Shivans and nukes, for instance, are at their current level of strength not because the PVE mobs (turrets/shivans) are difficult (they're not,) but because of the risk of PVP. If it were PVE only, they'd be much weaker, or not be renewable.
Similarly, I've seen people argue that the PVP badges - and I mean by the strictest definition, for defeating opposing players - are PVE content, which just boggles me as the only way TO get them, and the only thing they measure, are PVP activity. But I've had people who absolutely would not budge on those being PVE, because "they're badges." (Which, often it seems, end up being the same people that "have the right" to not be involved in PVP even when they're in the zone, and get highly offended that anyone would dare engage them... I wish I were exaggerating that.)
With the accolade requirements removed, I'm perfectly fine with saying "if it's in a PVP zone, it's PVP content" at this time. If there's an exception, it should be looked at (required for an accolade heroside doesn't need to enter a PVP zone for, for instance,) but "just because it's a badge" doesn't wash for me as a reason to call it PVE content. (Not saying that's your stance, either, just saying.)
I guess when I'm getting Shivans or whatever I don't play a proper hero.
If there's a villain or two also getting meteor fragments, I talk to them and let them know I'm not going to bug them. Whoever gets to the meteor first goes first, whoever gets there second goes second. It's no problem.
It's hard to throw the internal switch and decide I'm supposed to grief the other side's players because now I'm in a PvP zone.
And if I was in the zone for a PvE purpose and a stalker ASed me 3x while I attempted to go about my business, I'd leave too. Obviously the stalker player could see I didn't want to PvP with them, but they didn't care. They were using the pretext of being in a PvP zone to harrass me.
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Actually, I believe that Castle himself stated that the reason why Shivans and Warburg nukes are so strong is because they are in PvP zones and that PvP itself is the risk for the reward.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Some folks inherently HATE pvp. It's not their fault that there are PVE items in the pvp zones.
Should they step into the zone for the pve item? Yes, they can if they want to. Do they have to fight you, no they don't. Nor do they have to stand and fight. |
I've noticed that PvEers have a habit of coming off as...hostile...any time someone makes a well meaning question or comment about PvP. Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. Moderately good natured players have a bad experience so they avoid PvP. Fewer "nice" people are playing in zones so it cyclicly gets worse. Then again, I've had very few bad experiences in zones so I don't know if it's a server proplem or not.
Something else that bugs me is that while I'm looking at it from an outsider/secondhand perspective, it seems like "PvP" is GM shorthand for "I don't have to do my job". I don't like that thought process since I've encountered helpful GMs but if someone follows you out of the PvP zone and continually harasses you then that IS offensible griefing and some sort of measure of reprimand is required.
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That's not what he's complaining about Bill and you know it. He's complaining about putting PVE content in PVP zones to force-feed people PVP.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
OK, first - don't complain about having PVPers engage you in a PVP zone.
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| You're in one of the few areas they can play *their* game (PVP) and you don't want them to? |
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| If you had a - let's say, "Hunt Carnies in PI" mission, and an RPer asked you to stop because they're RPing "trying to make peace with them so they changed their ways," would you stop hunting any carnies in PI, or get a bit irritated that they kept trying to interfere and threatening to petition you for "griefing" their RP? You can't hunt the carnies in a mission - your mission says they must be in PI. You can't go *anywhere* else to do this. And someone else is complaining because you're trying to, because they're trying to do something that's a complete tangent to it. |
Trying to thwack a GM in-zone is.
Trying to thwack a pillbox in-zone is.
Trying to get exploration badges in-zone is.
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| That's what you're doing by complaining about people engaging in PVP in a PVP zone, or expecting them to play YOUR game ("I'm here for badges, not PVP" - aka "I'm here to make peace with all the carnies!") when they don't have much choice in where they can go to play theirs. |
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PvPers, in my experience have been obnoxious in and out of PvP zones; if they can't gang up 8-to-1 against a lowbie in a zone, they'll do things like hang out at a market rocking their aura specifically to annoy people ( and say so! ) and broadcasting insults against PvErs. Or try other forms of griefing. I don't WANT to play with them or against them. The only reason I go into a zone is to get the PvE content that was put there in order to attempt to crowbar us into PvPing.
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Yes. They want to fight me, so I run to deny them what they want. If I can't run, I use Self Destruction to deny them their chance at beating me.
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Originally Posted by Seldom
Fighting is what the fighter wants....the runner is taking the one thing they want away- the fight.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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What "my notion"? I didn't design the game. I didn't make the rules.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Okay, so there's another activity that doesn't fit YOUR NOTION of how to play the game.
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When they designed City of Villains and created the Bloody Bay zone, they put a valuable temp power mission in that zone specifically to create an incentive for casual PvP; that much is obvious, implicit in the design. Yes, you can have a temp power that gives you an elite boss level pet (for crying out loud!). No, you don't need it; it's not like they made the other content any harder when they introduced Shivan Shards. But yes, it does make it easier to solo elite bosses and such. If you want to do that, you can only do so if you expose yourself to the risk of fighting a player from the other side. Don't want that? Do without Shivans. That's how the game is designed.
Now yes, by only doing your Shivan runs during seriously slow times, or on empty servers, you can maximize your chance of completing the mission without having to see another player. And yes, if you suck at PvP and hate PvP that much, I can see why you'd want to. But if your plan to do so fails, you have two choices: run away, or fight. Running away just wastes your time. No, really; it is even slower than losing a fight, and absolutely guarantees that you don't get the Shivan Shard temp power. But if you turn and fight, and lose, you lost nothing. If you turn and fight and win, all it cost you is 15 or so seconds' delay before you get your Shivan Shard, and you get paid back for that 15 seconds delay with a chance to win an extraordinarily valuable PvP enhancement recipe. So why wouldn't you?
You wouldn't because you hate PvP? Look, you decided to PvP when you ignored the loud, shouting, blaring, flashing PvP alert siren. The decision to not PvP should have been made at that point; that's the way the game is set up, the way it's designed. After that, the only remaining decision is not whether to PvP or not, it's whether to try, succeed or fail, or to surrender and run away. I'm not asking why people would avoid Bloody Bay; I'm asking why, when confronted with a visibly obviously pathetically weak opponent, one no more dangerous to them than a +1 minion (because in both of the examples in the original posting, that is all I was, really, to them), they'd choose that moment to decide that they didn't want to PvP?
Somebody brought up ERP. Unfair comparison, because I can give reasons why I don't think ERP is fun. But even if I accept the comparison, this would be like going into Pocket D during an announced ERP event, walking up to a crowd of people at the event, and then running away and fleeing Pocket D as soon as they typed something to you. Why would you do that?
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[WhatYouSense]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------[WhatPeopleAreSaying]|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
From what people are saying here, I'm getting the sense that I've stumbled upon the cure for the common gank: show no fear. Don't try to hide, and if you see someone, attack them.
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They're saying that if you just decide to take a random stab at a random guy and he bails on you and refuses to fight (especially if he could bug-swat you), leave him the heck alone.
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| Look, I'm not trying to troll here; I really am baffled. What I'm seeing is inexplicable to me, it's unimaginable the lengths I see people go to to avoid playing a game that they pay $15 a month to play. |
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| So, okay, a fight threatens to break out and you run back to the base |
Fail?
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| Taking the slower, scenic route to the helicopter out is that preferable to you? Why? |
SOME
PEOPLE
DO
NOT
WANT
TO
PVP
EVER
That help?
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Pffft,
All this analysis and you're just avoiding the answer that hurts:
They didn't want to play with you.
End of story, end of over-inflated ego-fest.
Statesmonkey Sez: Lighten up! It's a game, for Lincoln's sake!
Also: Six years of casual play begins to look an awful lot like one year of hardcore play.
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You could turn, fight and win and be delayed...until whomever it was who attacked you the first time decides to come back and attack you the second time. You don't know that they will, but you don't know that they WON'T either. I mean, they were just sitting their waiting in the shadows to gank you initially right? Not absurd to assume they'll do it again. So, better to leave, do something else, then try again later when the coast might be clearer.
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
Now yes, by only doing your Shivan runs during seriously slow times, or on empty servers, you can maximize your chance of completing the mission without having to see another player. And yes, if you suck at PvP and hate PvP that much, I can see why you'd want to. But if your plan to do so fails, you have two choices: run away, or fight. Running away just wastes your time. No, really; it is even slower than losing a fight, and absolutely guarantees that you don't get the Shivan Shard temp power. But if you turn and fight, and lose, you lost nothing. If you turn and fight and win, all it cost you is 15 or so seconds' delay before you get your Shivan Shard, and you get paid back for that 15 seconds delay with a chance to win an extraordinarily valuable PvP enhancement recipe. So why wouldn't you?
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Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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All due respect, this just sounds like "jerks are jerks" as opposed to explicitly a PvP problem...
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
do things like hang out at a market rocking their aura specifically to annoy people ( and say so! ) and broadcasting insults
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It's not a matter of fear. I'm not afraid of you. And I'm not running away.
I'm leaving the zone because I don't want to PvP. Period.
(Assuming you attacked me. If I just see you off in the distance I'll just be ignoring you and keeping an eye out to ensure you're not coming over to attack me while I'm busy with something else.)
When I'm attacked in a PvP zone, I make a few basic assumptions:
1) You're not alone. I may not see anyone else, but I make the basic assumption that you're either bait or the point man for a full-on 8-1 ganking squad.
2) You are only interested in ganking me over and over again. Never a fair fight, never just leaving me alone to mind my own business, never anything other than trying your best to ruin my play experience.
3) If I make the slightest peep, all I'll get in return is taunting and trash-talk. I won't put up with that kind of talk from folks I know, so why should I put up with it from some snot-nosed little brain-dead twerp living in his parent's basement and getting his jollies from proving how superior he is at killing someone who's not interested in fighting?
Now, they may not be valid assumptions. But all too often they are.
Yes, I hate PvP. I've hated PvP since UO and I'll hate PvP until the day I stop playing computer games. So no, I'm not afraid of you, I'm just not interested and it's simpler to leave rather than have to deal with "you PvP types"
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
ok, reiterating it once more, because it is NOT FUN. especially involving stalkers. Back when i played street fighter 2, and a guy came into the arcade that i knew was better than me, i'd still play against him because even if i lost, i'd still have fun, fighting a lone stalker is as fun as catching crab lice, thats just the breaks, running away may be slower than dying, but it wont be as annoying. people sneak in the areas for the badges and rewards, that is why they are there, why is this difficult for you, they do not want to get a defeat, debt or not, they want a badge and a power, there is no need to keep trying to project these dramatic motivations, they dont find pvp fun, particularly against a stalker.
and yes, if erp gave badges and really useful temps, we would have the same issue.
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i'm just going to be quiet as smirk as to whether those two are intimately related.
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Originally Posted by Zamuel
All due respect, this just sounds like "jerks are jerks" as opposed to explicitly a PvP problem...
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No, when we enter the zone we don't choose to PvP. We choose to risk getting attacked by PvPers. In addition there are a few reasons to run away. First off losing sucks, and having to hosp is depressing. On the other hand successfully running away is actually fun, you're metaphorically giving the PvPer the finger and saying "better luck next time" in a very sarcastic voice. For a PvEer successfully disengaging from a PvPer (especially if you don't leave the zone) is a victory. In many ways though me stopping a PvPer from getting a kill is no different from a PvPer stopping a PvEer from accomplishing his PvE based objectives. In both cases we want something and the other player is in a position to stop us. So by disengaging I'm saying "yes you can stop me from accomplishing MY goals, but there's no way I'm going to help you accomplish yours".|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
Now yes, by only doing your Shivan runs during seriously slow times, or on empty servers, you can maximize your chance of completing the mission without having to see another player. And yes, if you suck at PvP and hate PvP that much, I can see why you'd want to. But if your plan to do so fails, you have two choices: run away, or fight. Running away just wastes your time. No, really; it is even slower than losing a fight, and absolutely guarantees that you don't get the Shivan Shard temp power. But if you turn and fight, and lose, you lost nothing. If you turn and fight and win, all it cost you is 15 or so seconds' delay before you get your Shivan Shard, and you get paid back for that 15 seconds delay with a chance to win an extraordinarily valuable PvP enhancement recipe. So why wouldn't you?
You wouldn't because you hate PvP? Look, you decided to PvP when you ignored the loud, shouting, blaring, flashing PvP alert siren. The decision to not PvP should have been made at that point; that's the way the game is set up, the way it's designed. After that, the only remaining decision is not whether to PvP or not, it's whether to try, succeed or fail, or to surrender and run away. I'm not asking why people would avoid Bloody Bay; I'm asking why, when confronted with a visibly obviously pathetically weak opponent, one no more dangerous to them than a +1 minion (because in both of the examples in the original posting, that is all I was, really, to them), they'd choose that moment to decide that they didn't want to PvP? |
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
and yes, if erp gave badges and really useful temps, we would have the same issue.
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For me, I hate PvP. I have no desire to PvP. And when I enter into a PvP zone for badges or temp powers, I WON'T PvP.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
So, they're getting Shivans. We're still talking "fight you can't lose" territory here, practically, in both cases. So what they're doing is putting off recharging their Shivan Shard for 24 hours or more so they don't have to put it off for 15 or so seconds? How does that make sense?
And even if they did lose the first fight, they'd be out, what, another minute, tops, since neither of them had their first fragment yet? How is running away and setting themselves back many minutes, maybe hours, more time-efficient? But more to the point, didn't they sign up for this game to feel like superheroes? What kind of superhero runs away from a fight they can't lose? |
I also don't get upset when others want to PvP me, as that is likely what they are there for.
PvP is like a minefield in my eyes. You enter it at your own risk and one wrong step could kill you. If I want those badges and/or temp powers enough, I'll risk it. But in NO WAY, if I run across a PvP'er (mine), am I going to try and defeat them (defuse said mine). It's not something I'm good at and not something I want to become good at.
And as for a fight I can't lose? Trust me, I'm not that a great a player. I have poor reflexes and an internet connection that is flaky on some servers. So even a fight where I am higher level than someone, have better enhancements or even a resistance to their attacks, I'd probably still lose. Which is why when I get attacked in a PvP zone, I just run. If they follow me and kill me, fine, no biggie. I just zone for a bit. The badges and temps will still be there later, the PvP'ers may not be.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
If I were looking for duels, I'd be hanging out in Pocket D by the Arena terminals. (And if PvP gave XP, like it did in WAR, I might well be doing just that. But that's an argument for another day.) I have nothing inherently against dueling. But that's not what Bloody Bay and Siren's Call and Warburg and Recluse's Victory are for.
- - - - -
From what people are saying here, I'm getting the sense that I've stumbled upon the cure for the common gank: show no fear. Don't try to hide, and if you see someone, attack them. Since MMO players, by huge margins, are terrified of uncertainty and unpredictability and are unwilling to risk the possibility of the worst, doing so makes you just like that video I've seen on the Internet of a cat attacking and chasing off a bear. The bear knows that the cat is no harder to catch than a fish, and that it could bite the cat in half in one bite, but it runs away anyway, because it's thinking "the cat obviously thinks it could win this fight; it must know something I don't know"?
The consequences of losing a fight in this game are so trivial that I can't imagine fearing it. Even if I was jumped by surprise by a stalker (and it's happened) and I feared that if I stood and fought them that six more stalkers would materialize out of the woodwork (why? if there were six more stalkers, why wouldn't they all attack at once?), so what? What's it hurt if I fight back and lose?
You suck at PvP? Amazing coincidence; I'm not all that great at it, either. But some day I may suck less, because I'm not afraid to fight, lose, and send the person a tell afterwards saying, "good fight, I have no idea how you just did that, what did you DO to me?" Everything I know about PvP in any game I've played I've learned that way; half of 'em are happy to boast.
And I'm mildly autistic. You can't tell me you fear surprise more than I do. You can't tell me that you fear uncertainty more than I do. You can't tell me that you fear disruption of your routine more than I do. But how can it count as a surprise that someone attacks you in a PvP zone? What's uncertain about it? How did you not know to plan it into your routine?
Look, I'm not trying to troll here; I really am baffled. What I'm seeing is inexplicable to me, it's unimaginable the lengths I see people go to to avoid playing a game that they pay $15 a month to play. OK, I know what somebody's going to say to that: I don't pay to play that particular part of the game. So, okay, a fight threatens to break out and you run back to the base, passing the hospital on your way to the helicopter out. What did you just save? If the absolute worst had happened, if I were secretly on a level 50 fully kitted out with PvP and purple IOs and backed up by a covert strike squad of 25 other hidden stalkers, what can we do to you? Send you to the Longbow base you were already fleeing to, only faster. Taking the slower, scenic route to the helicopter out is that preferable to you? Why?
...
It was explained to you. The fact that you REFUSE to see the explanation is no one's problem but your own.
Some folks inherently HATE pvp. It's not their fault that there are PVE items in the pvp zones. From what you say you should be advocating that the REMOVE all pve items from the pvp zones, since you should only want folks who want to pvp in the zones right?
Can't help you if you don't get that some folks DO NOT LIKE PVP.
They don't need to explain why to you, they just don't.
Let me put it this way: do you like EroticRP (ERP)? No, then why don't you do it anyway? Others find it fun, you should try it. What's the big deal it's just a little fun.
What would be your response be?
Or take any other activity in this game that folks don't find fun.
Should they step into the zone for the pve item? Yes, they can if they want to. Do they have to fight you, no they don't. Nor do they have to stand and fight.
EDIT 2: Now if they had spewed nonsense at you that's one thing. But instead they simply left. I'm seriously not getting the issue here.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!