What Are Heroes Running FROM?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-12-11 09:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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There are few ways if any that the other players had of knowing your character's relative power level or team size. All the player info window shows in PvP is origin and archetype. Also, the zones auto-exemp everyone to their set levels, so all players con even. If I were in a PvP zone and got surprise attacked by at least one opponent of undetermined strength, I'd retreat in hopes of eluding the rest of the ambush (if any) and giving myself time to assess the situation, even if I felt like fighting back later.
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
I'm asking why, when confronted with a visibly obviously pathetically weak opponent, one no more dangerous to them than a +1 minion (because in both of the examples in the original posting, that is all I was, really, to them), they'd choose that moment to decide that they didn't want to PvP?
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I'd disagree with this assessment, there are plenty of non-jerk PvPers. The problem is that the ones PvEers are most likely to encounter are the jerks. Most of the non-jerk PvPers are looking for a challenge and a fair fight something that they will not get fighting PvEers.
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Not all jerks are PvPers, but as far as I can tell, most PvPers are jerks. Most of the people who admit to being PvPers in game end up on my /gignore list pretty soon because they are just that unpleasant and insulting.
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And by the vast amount of casual PVP we see in Bloody Bay (never mind the bustling in other PVP zones), we see that it was a success right? Right?|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
When they designed City of Villains and created the Bloody Bay zone, they put a valuable temp power mission in that zone specifically to create an incentive for casual PvP;
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| that much is obvious, implicit in the design. |
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| If you want to do that, you can only do so if you expose yourself to the risk of fighting a player from the other side. Don't want that? Do without Shivans. That's how the game is designed. |
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| Running away just wastes your time. |
Kinda the choice between getting your root canal with or without painkillers.
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| No, really; it is even slower than losing a fight |
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| and absolutely guarantees that you don't get the Shivan Shard temp power. |
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| But if you turn and fight, and lose, you lost nothing. |
It's about control.
Them running away is a CHOICE to waste their own time.
You killing them is not their choice, and still a waste of their time.
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| If you turn and fight and win |
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| all it cost you is 15 or so seconds' delay before you get your Shivan Shard |
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| So why wouldn't you? |
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| Look, you decided to PvP when you ignored the loud, shouting, blaring, flashing PvP alert siren. |
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| I'm asking why, when confronted with a visibly obviously pathetically weak opponent |
Surely you jest!
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| one no more dangerous to them than a +1 minion (because in both of the examples in the original posting, that is all I was, really, to them), they'd choose that moment to decide that they didn't want to PvP? |
A PC opponent is NOT.
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Let's not get into how intimate. Someone's already brought up ERP...|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
i'm just going to be quiet as smirk as to whether those two are intimately related.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
The only Villains I've seen recently in Bloody Bay are there for Shivans too - we usually just do the run together 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I think some people do that in PD. I've been between missions when a team disbands and tried to talk to someone to have them run for the elevator.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
What "my notion"? I didn't design the game. I didn't make the rules.
When they designed City of Villains and created the Bloody Bay zone, they put a valuable temp power mission in that zone specifically to create an incentive for casual PvP; that much is obvious, implicit in the design. Yes, you can have a temp power that gives you an elite boss level pet (for crying out loud!). No, you don't need it; it's not like they made the other content any harder when they introduced Shivan Shards. But yes, it does make it easier to solo elite bosses and such. If you want to do that, you can only do so if you expose yourself to the risk of fighting a player from the other side. Don't want that? Do without Shivans. That's how the game is designed. Now yes, by only doing your Shivan runs during seriously slow times, or on empty servers, you can maximize your chance of completing the mission without having to see another player. And yes, if you suck at PvP and hate PvP that much, I can see why you'd want to. But if your plan to do so fails, you have two choices: run away, or fight. Running away just wastes your time. No, really; it is even slower than losing a fight, and absolutely guarantees that you don't get the Shivan Shard temp power. But if you turn and fight, and lose, you lost nothing. If you turn and fight and win, all it cost you is 15 or so seconds' delay before you get your Shivan Shard, and you get paid back for that 15 seconds delay with a chance to win an extraordinarily valuable PvP enhancement recipe. So why wouldn't you? You wouldn't because you hate PvP? Look, you decided to PvP when you ignored the loud, shouting, blaring, flashing PvP alert siren. The decision to not PvP should have been made at that point; that's the way the game is set up, the way it's designed. After that, the only remaining decision is not whether to PvP or not, it's whether to try, succeed or fail, or to surrender and run away. I'm not asking why people would avoid Bloody Bay; I'm asking why, when confronted with a visibly obviously pathetically weak opponent, one no more dangerous to them than a +1 minion (because in both of the examples in the original posting, that is all I was, really, to them), they'd choose that moment to decide that they didn't want to PvP? Somebody brought up ERP. Unfair comparison, because I can give reasons why I don't think ERP is fun. But even if I accept the comparison, this would be like going into Pocket D during an announced ERP event, walking up to a crowd of people at the event, and then running away and fleeing Pocket D as soon as they typed something to you. Why would you do that? |
If people go to the PvP zones and don't want to PvP I can see them running. They aren't PvPers they don't want to try so they run.
If they stand by the drones and yell at you then they are being silly. If they shout in broadcast because you crashed their party they are being silly. If they run away they are fine.
If you down them as they run away that's helping them to the exit ^_^.
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Bolded for emphasis. There is nothing in the warnings for the PvP zones that says you must actually fight another player, just that you must accept the risk of fighting another player. Those players accepted the risk. They chose to deal with it by avoiding the other player.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
If you want to do that, you can only do so if you expose yourself to the risk of fighting a player from the other side. Don't want that? Do without Shivans. That's how the game is designed.
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Now if they had not accepted the risk, if they had stood there and insisted that you not attack them because they were only there for the temp power and didn't want to PvP, then I would have no sympathy for them. But they did accept it. They acknowledged that they were in a PvP zone, you were within your rights to attack them, and chose to avoid the fight in the only acceptable way within the context of the intended function of the zone: by running away.
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| You wouldn't because you hate PvP? Look, you decided to PvP when you ignored the loud, shouting, blaring, flashing PvP alert siren. The decision to not PvP should have been made at that point; that's the way the game is set up, the way it's designed. |
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| Somebody brought up ERP. Unfair comparison, because I can give reasons why I don't think ERP is fun. But even if I accept the comparison, this would be like going into Pocket D during an announced ERP event, walking up to a crowd of people at the event, and then running away and fleeing Pocket D as soon as they typed something to you. Why would you do that? |
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How about entertaining the notion that the game is DESIGNED to accommodate a wide variety of activities and playstyles. You don't get to say which ones are "intended" unless someone is actually breaking rules.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
What "my notion"? I didn't design the game. I didn't make the rules.
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| And yes, if you suck at PvP and hate PvP that much, I can see why you'd want to. But if your plan to do so fails, you have two choices: run away, or fight. Running away just wastes your time. No, really; it is even slower than losing a fight, and absolutely guarantees that you don't get the Shivan Shard temp power. But if you turn and fight, and lose, you lost nothing. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I think you glow green when you have one, don't you? So other people know you have one and that they can take it from you if they kill you. Or is that just after you get the codes? I haven't gotten a Shivan in a while.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
I think I missed something. If you are collecting meteor fragments and a player kills you, don't you LOSE a fragment? So, am I mistaken in my understanding of the game mechanics, or are you simply lying when you repeatedly state that fighting and losing costs you nothing?
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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ERP isn't Pocket D's officially sanctioned purpose while PvP is the purpose of a PvP zone. Granted, it could be argued that ERP might make more sense in Pocket D than other places and you'd be somewhat wrong to interrupt a well known and preestablished ERP event but it's not a stated purpose.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
What if you and your friends felt like RPing in Pocket D? You go to Pocket D for your RP session, and find out that it's full of ERPers who are trying to involve you in their activity, which you are not interested in. Their activity will possibly disrupt your activity; it might not, if they keep their chatter in team chat or tells, but it will if they start talking in local or broadcast. You don't want to be involved in their activity in any way....why wouldn't you leave?
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You glow green as long as you have at least one meteor chunk, and if you get defeated by another player, he or she gets all your chunks, so your options are to start over or defeat the person who initially defeated you before he or she completes the Shiva Strike mini game or leaves the zone.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I think you glow green when you have one, don't you? So other people know you have one and that they can take it from you if they kill you. Or is that just after you get the codes? I haven't gotten a Shivan in a while.
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Mmm... chunks.
<runs away from thread>
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I disagree. In my experience MOST PvP'ers are good players and friendly people. We need to narrow the parameters here - most of the PvP'ers who go to a PvP zone to attack random people without warning, yeah, most of THEM are jerks. Most of them are incompetent players who run stalkers to get easy kills.|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Not all jerks are PvPers, but as far as I can tell, most PvPers are jerks. Most of the people who admit to being PvPers in game end up on my /gignore list pretty soon because they are just that unpleasant and insulting.
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I got 1,000 pillboxes in RV the hard way. I defeated 85 Contaminated in RV for the badge. I was in there A LOT over the course of MONTHS. Most of the people who attacked me were incompetent and I would not even label them as "PvP'ers" except in the most technical sense. I killed them EASILY. When I ran into a 'real' PvP'er, they would usually win (although I would put up a good fight). And then they would engage in conversation, ask what I was doing, discuss tactics, ask about my build, etc. They weren't looking for cheap kills. They wanted to improve their skills and assumed that if I could last more than a few seconds, I could offer useful advice.
The jerks, on the other hand, would immediately try to run if their target offered any resistance. After I killed them, I would generally never see them again because they knew I wasn't an easy target. A REAL PvP'er doesn't want easy targets. They want a good fight. They want a challenge.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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ALL of them? Wow, that's harsh. If you're defeated in Warburg, you only lose one piece of the launch code.
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Originally Posted by Godpants
You glow green as long as you have at least one meteor chunk, and if you get defeated by another player, he or she gets all your chunks, so your options are to start over or defeat the person who initially defeated you before he or she completes the Shiva Strike mini game.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Collecting Shivan Shards is also an officially sanctioned purpose of Bloody Bay. The Shivan Shard nav bar shows up as soon as you enter the zone. There might as well be a big sign that says DO THIS MISSION.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
ERP isn't Pocket D's officially sanctioned purpose while PvP is the purpose of a PvP zone. Granted, it could be argued that ERP might make more sense in Pocket D than other places and you'd be somewhat wrong to interrupt a well known and preestablished ERP event but it's not a stated purpose.
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It could also be argued that Pocket D's purpose is mostly RP-related, since it's not good for much else outside seasonal events. Now if other people using the zone for one purpose well within the design intent of the zone is interfering with your use of the zone for another purpose well within the design intent of the zone, does it not make sense for you to leave, and come back later when those other people are gone?
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Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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+1 rep|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
<runs away from thread>
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Originally Posted by Godpants
You glow green as long as you have at least one meteor chunk, and if you get defeated by another player, he or she gets all your chunks, so your options are to start over or defeat the person who initially defeated you before he or she completes the Shiva Strike mini game or leaves the zone.
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True, but getting new meteor shards is less complicated than the rescue/escort/launch routine for gaining Warburg nukes. Probably less hassle to start over at another time for either, though.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
ALL of them? Wow, that's harsh. If you're defeated in Warburg, you only lose one piece of the launch code.
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If I ever managed to defeat someone carrying a meteor chunk or launch code, I'd bolt for the zone entrance ASAP just to make the temp item go "poof," but I'm a spiteful misanthrope who delights in petty cruelty and would slot a "10% chance to kick puppy" proc into all my powers if such things existed.
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Does this mean that I won't ever get to play Super Street Fighter 4 online with most CoH players? |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Some people just do not want to PVP.
At all. SERIOUSLY. Some people just do not want to PVP. At all. REALLY. I mean it. They signed up to be heroes. They didn't necessarily sign up to PVP. Again, some don't want to PVP. At all. EVER! Is this becoming clear? So, the next time you run into someone who is OBVIOUSLY trying to ACTIVELY avoid PVP, and you're not particularly there to PVP, stop harassing them and telling them your name is Richard. |
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To give you a roleplay answer to the question that you posed in a psuedo-rp manner:
"I have no interest in fighting you because I have no idea who you are or what your crimes are or what jurisdiction you committed them in. In fact, because I don't know who you are, I have no idea whether or not you might have been framed for your supposed 'crimes.' As such, since you interrupted me while I was in the midst of either stopping a crime or preparing myself to engage someone who I KNOW is a criminal, you are really nothing more than an annoyance.
As such, I have things that I have to do and I can either waste time dealing with your nonsense or get to doing those things."
That's pretty much the rp reply to your question. Until the developers show some interest in integrating the two sides of the game (rp and pvp), that's likely to remain my answer. My characters face threats and stop evil. They don't engage in meaningless gladiatorial exercises that serve no purpose.
Personally, if I'm in a PvP zone it's either to get badges or a temp power. It's not my fault the devs put those things in PvP zones. I'm going to ignore and escape from any fights, because they're a waste of my time and interfering with whatever it is I'm there to do. And this is for villains as well as heroes.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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When a thread like this was posted a few years ago, I saw something that went like this: (Or at least what I can remember)|
Originally Posted by Sister_Twelve
To give you a roleplay answer to the question that you posed in a psuedo-rp manner:
"I have no interest in fighting you because I have no idea who you are or what your crimes are or what jurisdiction you committed them in. In fact, because I don't know who you are, I have no idea whether or not you might have been framed for your supposed 'crimes.' As such, since you interrupted me while I was in the midst of either stopping a crime or preparing myself to engage someone who I KNOW is a criminal, you are really nothing more than an annoyance. As such, I have things that I have to do and I can either waste time dealing with your nonsense or get to doing those things." That's pretty much the rp reply to your question. Until the developers show some interest in integrating the two sides of the game (rp and pvp), that's likely to remain my answer. My characters face threats and stop evil. They don't engage in meaningless gladiatorial exercises that serve no purpose. |
Batman: Joker, leave me alone, I don't want to PvP.
Joker: LMAO
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*Batman gets in the Batmobile and drives away*|
Originally Posted by Nightphall
When a thread like this was posted a few years ago, I saw something that went like this: (Or at least what I can remember)
Batman: Joker, leave me alone, I don't want to PvP. Joker: LMAO |
Joker: Come back here and PvP meh!!!!
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I'm not exactly sure how that is supposed to be a response to what I posted. I don't have anything against pvp in general. In fact in other games, I've successfully climbed several pvp ladders. I don't have any conceptual beef with fighting against other players. I've played my share of CoD and fighter games.|
When a thread like this was posted a few years ago, I saw something that went like this: (Or at least what I can remember) Batman: Joker, leave me alone, I don't want to PvP. Joker: LMAO |
I have a problem with pvp in this game because it doesn't make any conceptual sense to engage in the activity if you believe in immersive roleplay at all.
Why would any of my characters waste their time fighting Lord Hodge Podge07 if they are in the midst of stopping a plot by Nemesis or by Recluse? Once again, just as a reminder:
"I don't know who you are. I don't know what your crimes are. I don't even know if you really committed crimes."
Until this game figures out a way to mechanically reconcile those things and make me understand why you are a threat and not just a wanna-be who is trying to build a rep by attacking me out of the blue, I have no interest in fighting you.
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Not if you wanna play Guy |
Originally Posted by Nightphall
Does this mean that I won't ever get to play Super Street Fighter 4 online with most CoH players?
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth