Are All Good Things Meant for CoH Going to Aion?

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Ahaha..
HA HA!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA...!

Oh dear...yes, deary me, the head of Animation just cannot be bothered, he whines so hard and so often about the most trivial things...

Pfft. Sorry, next.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Second case in point: Lemuria. Sure, they have an underwater zone, but none of the animations account for things like water viscosity and slower movement underwater, especially in combat (such as punching or swinging an axe). It's even more apparent with giant monsters that have more surface area but still attack at the same lightning speed underwater as they would in open air. Wonky, wonky, wonky.

Also: Sonic attacks underwater anyone?

Putting all the snide comments and sarcasm to the side for a moment, how's about looking at this question from a totally different perspective - namely, why do I care if its all been done before in other MMOs when it hasn't been done in City of Heroes yet?

I've always been a singular fan of CoH, and while I've not always agreed with the creative directions its taken, I'm still very much intrigued by it. Champions Online aside (which may appear "trendier" but its still decidely weak on content and seriously lacking in artistic vision), CoH really is the only superhero MMO of its kind - as Blizzard recently pointed out in this article citing the utter lack of innovation seen in other MMOs nowadays:


"I think the industry needs to move in that direction to come up with some innovative new MMOs that are trying really different things. Take City of Heroes -- at least that's something that's not a fantasy game."

Source link: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Devel...t-128542.shtml



Maybe that's part of the problem - some folks can't get beyond seeing CoH as "just another MMO game" whereas others want to see it (and build it) as something special in its own right. I don't play WoW, never played DAoC and I've no interest in FFXI so I don't care what innovations occur in those games - and while I do play Aion now, I'd rather be playing CoH if someone would give enough of a damn about it to not just "maintain" it but "improve" upon it as well (Going Rogue is definitely a good start; but don't let the momentum stop there).

So if I cry foul because the new, prettier NCsoft MMO is getting a bit of undue favortism, please don't crucify me for asking why CoH feels like the lowly stepchild in the NCsoft family (ie. treated separately yet still considered equal). Its "just another MMO" to you but for me (and others) it used to be something unique and absolutely magical.


Now go ahead: tell me again why I'm wrong for wanting the tech and gameplay innovations for CoH before I see them anywhere else? If its really a case of "the engine can't support it" then let's get moving on CoH2. This is a great franchise, a brilliant MMO, and I shouldn't be the only person seeing the value in taking this IP to the next level whenever possible.

Everyone's effectively anti-dooming this post, but this I have to point out. Yes, people are pointing at GR... but don't forget, we've already HAD visual enhancements to the game, as well. Most notably at COV's introduction.

Short answer to the entire post:

No.

And for the later statement:
Because MMOs are not the same. This isn't a Honda Civic, where the reason that one has a sun roof and CD changer where we don't is that someone else asked for them. Aion was developed from scratch. COH was developed from scratch. As was WoW. And Everquest. EVE online. SW:TOR. SWG. UO. You can't just say "They have it, we can just plug it in to ours."

You're looking at your Civic and someone else's F-350 and asking why you can't stick the same amount of heavy furniture in the back while towing something and actually move anywhere. Or looking at a 747 and asking why your civic can't fly. They're not the same thing (past being "vehicles.")

Because Aion has its own development team, with its own development studio, its own revenue stream, and its own development priorities and timetables.
If COH were still owned by Cryptic and we were comparing COH and CO, then you'd have a point.

Wanting is fine. But you've got an unrealistic view of why X is getting one while Y isn't.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Again, I don't care about any other MMO but this one. A million players plus aren't here right now that used to be over the past 5 years partly because, at some point, the investment of technology and creative vision for this game virtually tanked. Aion is out a month, sells 1 million boxes, and suddenly its getting the best tech possible to make sure everyone who bought into it stays with it - hence the "Vision" PR video of things to come (but not anytime soon) because just as quick as everyone bought in, they're already starting to log out - permanently. And players need a reason to stay vested.


If CoH had ever seen its own "Vision" video 3 or 4 years ago, I think the game would be doing just as well now as it had in Year One. You call me unrealistic; I say I'm dedicated - but I'm not enough of a fool to blind faith that I'll just throw money at anything and everything labeled "CoH" - this game deserves a better player base and it deserves a greater vision and technology than what its actually survived with after five years. Going Rogue is a nice acknowledgement of the game's overall value - but after seeing the Aion "Vision" video and Yun's cross-console MMO reference which was something discussed for CoH just a couple years ago, I know GR is certainly not the best reinvestment of time, money and resources NCsoft has to offer this IP right now...

CoH2 would've been better.

And shame on any players in this forum who cheer complacency because "its all been done before" in other MMOs. They're really not doing City of Heroes any favors by sticking around and settling for stagnant gameplay and a limited sense of vision. The Devs are our best advocates for getting the best of everything invested in this game; try being a little more supportive of new ideas and technological innovations and give them the ammunition they need to go back to Management and say "here's why we need to up *our* game before you look at (Aion/Lineage/Guild Wars)."

I think it is the logistics of this that are the main roadblock to underwater fighting.. how do you explain using fire underwater? Would super strength be lessened giving water's cushioning effect and resistance? If you use electricity, will you fry your teammates along with the enemy? That alone is enough of a nightmare to make figuring out the animation aspects a secondary concern.

For whips - A Mastermind set has three pets, two upgrades, one utility (Extra pet from dead pet for Nercro/, bots gets a pet heal, ninjas a placate, etc), two single target attacks and 1 AoE (Necro has a ST attack with a self-heal). Which lets them make the whip attacks just strikes. Nothing tricky like tripping.

Crossbows - the main issue is animations, regardless if it was it's own set or an option for Archery, because you do not hold/use a Crossbow like a bow.

Aion's using up all the water! Quick, get a bucket!

The irony of this statement from the originator of a thread with the basic premise, "Are this game's shiny bits being given to another MMO instead?" is... considerable.

Not really.

Sure, we can compare apples to oranges, the semantics of NCsoft vs. NCwest, and argue tit for tat on every point I plucked from the original source article, but none of that speaks to my original question: is NCsoft showing undue favortism towards its newest IP rather than one of its older but still tried and true and utterly stable IPs?

Y'all just picked apart the few bits you each found interesting/offending about my OP then went off on some very weird tangents (a result of my original post being worded wrong, perhaps), but I stand by my original concern addressing in-house favortism for Aion over CoH (hence my reference to CoH as the "lowly stepchild" when compared to the "newborn babe" that is Aion). That other posters decided to bring comparisons to WoW and DAoC and FFXI to the table had nothing to do with me or my original OP - and I pushed back accordingly.

If I'd said: Why is there a Guild Wars 2 in the works, but no CoH2 by now - would that have made more sense? I personally don't think so - especially as my overall concern is with Aion having some (if not all) of the technological advances originally suggested/discussed by Devs and players alike for CoH in years past - and I say that both as a constant player of both IPs and someone who viewed the Aion "Vision" video and felt equally cheated and sorry for CoH.

But hey, suit yourself; debate the game's glaringly obvious limitations from a technological standpoint all you want - but keep in mind I'm posing this question from the vantage point of NCsoft's strategic vision and a decision to unevenly invest innovative gameplay and technology into one IP over another rather than trying to keep them *all* current (and I'm limiting the discussion to NCsoft games only - forget all the other non-NCsoft MMOs on the market right now).

If it used the existing SG base system on a smaller scale, and allowed for personal storage, then I think it would.

We've already been told that more personal storage is unlikely in order to keep the markets active.

Purely a business decision, GW is not a subscription game, so sustaining the entire studio on it for much longer wouldn't be feasible. They need to sell more boxes, and a brand new game will sell more copies, and can sell for more, than an expansion box would in most cases.

Like I said before: I think you're giving this "strategic vision" thing way too much weight. I sincerely doubt the Corporate Masters are analyzing the overall situation in nearly as much detail as you seem to think they are. "Resource management" might get that involved in Settlers of Catan, but not, I suspect, in the real-life world of running a multinational computer game company. No one is sitting in Seoul thinking, Hmm, well, City of Heroes players have been asking for this feature, and the man-hours are available to do it... nah, screw them, give it to Aion, they're where the money is now. It's just not that granular to them.

Technically, that's Y-axis control, since this game uses +Y as Up (And -Z as Forward when the camera is at PYR of {0, 0, 0})

I think you might be reading too much into that - an underwater zone can mean a zone that is nothing but underwater, so all movement is slowed, some powers don't work, and so on - and a zone set underwater - like a city similar to Otoh Gunga.

It'd be like the mothership shield, but in reverse - you could see through it, and see the ocean above and around you, but you'd be inside, where it'd be like dry land and normal buildings.

So when BAB says he's against an underwater zone, it's possible he just mean he's against one where we'd be in the water, as he'd need to remake every single aniamtion to go with an avatar floating or swimming.

Taking a portal/submarine to a city/base built around a gigantic dried out coral reef that's protected from the sea by one or more domes/bubbles/shields is totally another thing.

I don't care, man! Sorries. I want Underwater Adventure, Outer Space Adventure and much more!

I so miss the underwater stuff from EQ1. Diving into that pool in---what was it called, Highpass? (can't recall the proper name) saved my toon's life many a time---though the enemies did chase me to the bottom, swimming all the way. The intense angst, desperation was fun: would I have enough time to gate before the bandits reached me, etc, etc. And, of course, the entire underwater castle (Kedge Keep?) near Unrest. The memories alone are almost enough to make me do a free trial again, heh.

OTOH, of course, I'd feel a bit guilty expecting BABs to try and code all the necessaries to make it happen


Yeah, Aquaman is the lamest; I agree completely.

You're wrong for suggesting there's a high-level conspiracy at NCSoft to prevent CoX from implementing those things. I have never heard even the *slightest* hint that CoX was prevented from doing something because it might show up another NCSoft title. The reason we aren't ported to consoles is because Matt Miller and Brian Clayton want to spend their budget on other things. The reason we don't have an underwater zone is because Matt Miller and Brian Clayton want to spend their budget on other things (and because BaB would flip out). The reason we don't have apartments is probably because Matt Miller and Brian Clayton want to spend their employees' time on other things.

It is *not* because NCSoft said "we only have enough techno-juice to port one game to consoles, and we're not letting City of Heroes use it." The Paragon Studios dev team have their own plans for the future of City of Heroes, and it doesn't involve anything Aion is doing.


If you want to claim that aliens are stealing the trees in the Amazon, its not a defense to claim you're only trying to protect the rainforests. Its ok to want to protect the rainforests. Its not ok to want to protect the rainforests from intergalactic tree-nappers. By all means ask for underwater zones and personal apartments if that's what you want. Just don't claim Aion stole them from you. There is no underwater zone fund that NCSoft has locked Paragon Studios out of.

That's not quite true - I think they'll be looking to make a profit