Are All Good Things Meant for CoH Going to Aion?

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...65#post2383865

read BaB's post, but be sure to follow the link to the Massively article in the quoted section too. If you're going to keep discussing this with others, you should have possession of the same facts most of us are operating on.

Now I'm really out. Laters.

Then put this in your pipe and smoke it -

We've had over 100,000 active subscriptions - usually a pretty healthy number over - for the entire time the game has been active. COH is profitable. It's profitable enough and its outlook is encouraging enough for NCSoft to purchase the IP, hire almost all the developers over, hire MORE, give them their own office, and reinvest.

That, right there... should tell you not to worry about it. Initial investment: Paid off already. Strong IP ("Strong" does not mean "ZOMG we need WOW numbers," like some companies think, but one that has good retention over time and is a good investment) - check. They wouldn't REinvest in it, as they have, if they didn't feel it was worth it.

GW is not a traditional MMO. They're more like diablo. Expansions get put out and added on. Pretty much "Period."

Aion is not a "wholly new IP." It's been out for over a year in Asia - where it drew fans basically as an evolution of Lineage I and II. They're not getting a "new, improved Aion," they're getting tweaks. And I'm saying that as someone who plays Aion. I'm in there almost every day. Aion's a totally different game - centered around, past the first few levels, the risk of PVP almost *anywhere.* Hunt stuff in Eltnen? Watch for announcements of a Rift, since you may have a horde of Asmodeans jump through and take you out. The game is *centered* around PVPVE.

It's a continuation, really, and more of a traditional fantasy role (need tank, dps, healer for X) than COH.

And it's bot heavy. They've just banned 26,000 confirmed bots - on top of a similar number roughly a month ago.
Wow, where to begin.
1. Cryptic and PS are not the same. GR has nothing to do with CO.
2. Marvel got pulled because of MS and Marvel wanting WoW numbers.
3. Try not rewriting history.

Yay, post count attacks! ZOMG, the Forum Cartel is beating you up! Or maybe you're just full of it, and being called on it all.

You mean the game they restarted, pumped millions of dollars into, only to have the population tank (last numbers I heard were around 25-35,000 before it slowed) to a level so low they'd never get that investment back?

For someone worried about where money's getting invested, you sure haven't been paying attention.

See my Guides and Tutorials

You're right, Lemur.

All of you are absolutely right. Upon reflection, I probably shouldn't have bothered posting this thread at all.

I apologize for doing so, and am now bowing out of this conversation (and the COH forum) effectively immediately.

Sorry folks. Good luck to you.

Overreacting the opposite way is not the best way to cope with an overreaction on your part.

Rule #1 of the forums is Don't Post Angry, but close behind it is Rule #2 Don't take it personally.

There's really no reason to stop reading, posting, and enjoying the forums and the community. No one is trying to drive you out.

We're just trying to avoid unnecessary Sturm und Drang

Lets review. You said:

That *is* conspiratorial. It suggests that NCSoft dictates what Paragon Studios is allowed to do to improve the game, and more importantly what its not allowed to do. The notion that there actually exists some person (or persons) in Korea that looks at requests for resources from Paragon Studios and then looks at Aion, and decides which Paragon Studios requests get approved based on what is best for Aion, because that's the favorite son, is ludicrous. That is *not*, as you imply, simply good business sense. That is the worst form of micromanagement, and very uncommon.


In any case, you're running around in ever tighter circles. You started off by saying that you wanted game advances to come out for CoX before Aion, and you followed that up by saying that the reason why those game advances were not coming out for CoX before Aion is because NCSoft corporate *dictated* that they come out for Aion first. And now you're saying that *of course* NCSoft is diverting resources to Aion from CoX, because its only good business that they would be. And through all of this you're saying that of course its obvious that resources are being stolen from CoX, because quadrupling the staff and funding a technology update to the game client is proof that NCSoft held back from writing a sequel to the game?

I think I'm having a BaB moment.

First of all lets make some things clear. No matter what mmorpg title we talk about and no matter who works on that title and how passionate are the team behind it about the universe they are creating, at the end of the day it is a business. simple as that. it has money invested in for profit. What ncsoft does right now is focusing on more that one mmorg and covering multiple genres and universes in those games. no one can make a mmorpg to compete with wow, but you can add more players in more games to have as many subscribers.
If you believe that underwater, space, apartments, water powersets and everything else suggested is imposible then you are wrong. they are possible but also they are stupid or not bringing improvements to the game itself or the cost and time for it would prove to be inneficient.
Ncsoft knows how to spend their money and what to improve, update and make better. if they loose 1000 cox subscribers but win 3000 on aion its still profit for them. and sibscribers can be brought back with new issues.
I might be wrong but a mmorpg has always been seen from different perspectives , the owner and the player.
If they would have released cox this year considering that it would have recently been under development i could bet that more than half of the costume pieces we have (not the boosters) wouldnt have even been considered to be part of the costume creator.
New maps, new free costume pieces, new free stuff... wont bring subscribers but would cost to implement, time and money. they can keep our subscriptions active with less costs. simple as that. why spend more when you can spend less for the same profit. recession lol.
But water would be plain stupid. highly demanding for your hardware. and you'd have to move slower in water.

Well, they can make most of the problems go away.
1) Have a temp power that is a one-hero submersible or diving suit which works like one of the Halloween temp powers - now there is only one model to deal with.
2) Since you're fully enclosed, none of your powers can be used - the power toggles them off, just like the Walk power. Second problem eliminated.
3) The diving suit power can only be toggled on or off in an area designated 'airlock'.

This eliminates 99%* of the animation issues but can still give us a water zone with 3 axes of movement that we can explore. Any fighting just has to be done in an underwater lab, submarine, air-filled cave, etc.


* Made-up number

They could take the route of another MMO and simply not allow any type of combat/powers to work underwater. Then the only animations they would need to make is for swimming.

Doing that they would still have plenty of things they could put in an underwater zone. Instanced missions could take place in caves with an underwater entrances, sunken ships, domed cities, submarines, etc. There could be lots of secret places and glowies for players to explore and find. Some could spawn randomly in different locations so they are more challanging to find and collect.

1, The other recent superhero game is called Champions Online, by the way (it's not forbidden to say its name, just no direct compare and contrast point-by-point posts).

2, It hasn't even been released on ANY platform yet! Xbox 360's presumed release date is Dec 31, but that's kind of up in the air. PS3? Cryptic's 'interested' in it, but there's nothing concrete atm that I know of.

All those d***heads you see people complaining about in CO? Those aren't console gamers clashing with PC gamers. Those are PC gamers being d***heads. There's no "culture clash" excuse there.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

I hope nobody's holding their breath for this. The reason seems to change monthly. Licensing, Microsoft approval (or lack of,) Live requirements, now technical hurdles - weren't they saying it was "close" months ago?

I'd honestly *like* to see this on consoles. I think it'd fit there. I wouldn't *buy* it, mind you (having no console and having no interest in one,) but I actually thought it'd get there and have its own unique (until DCUO) niche to grow in.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Sorry, I had to pop back in and turn my rep meter back on (I got called out in another thread for shutting it off - sorry about that).

I stand by my decision to stop using these forums. Its not a matter of being driven out per se, its moreso:

a) I'm a poor communicator
b) Unless I read these forums consistently (which I don't), I won't get the full picture of what's going on.
c) What's said in isolation on these forums is more often than not in direct opposite to what's being said outside of this forum. Its no wonder BABs pointed out how brutal the comments were on the Massively article - but that's where a better PR team could really do the game some justice. Word of mouth about CoH isn't kind right now, and not everyone's taking the time to stop in the CoH forums to get the "right" message.
d) This forum is chock full of Debbie Downers - and now I'm starting to sound like one. Definitely time to go.


Again, I wish everyone well, and if I see you in-game, I'll be glad to team regardless. Its more fun to socialize there than it is here.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Personally, I would very much like to see crossbows as a animation/custom weapon variant of Archery/Trick Arrow rather than it's own character AT, but you're essentially correct: there aren't many crossbow-using hereoes. There are some, though. Just for the record, here's a few off the top of my head:

1) Swiftarrow, a largely forgotten Golden Age character. He had a couple different costumes, the latter one with a cape (presumably he made level 20 before he vainished into comic limbo).

2) DC's Huntress (she used the pistol bow type of crossbow at least in her early appearances in the '70s -- couldn' tell you if the modern Huntress uses them)

3) Hawkeye (or 'Awkeye as he announced himself in his Cockney accent) -- the original incarnation of the archer in the Squadron Supreme used a crossbow in his first appearance. He'd later change his name -- Marvel must have ran a name purge during his first hiatus.

4) Hawkeye .. or rather Clint Barton in his 60s-70s Goliath period occassionally used a King Kong-sized crossbow to practice with to keep up his archery skills. Nevermind it's a different skillset. It looked cool.

5) Chewbacca, if you count Marvel's Star Wars as a super hero comic book.

6) And of course, the grand daddy of all archery heroes, Willam Tell.

Crossbows haven't fared so well in comics I think because as a visual medium, drawing back a longbow is much more dynamic visually than cocking back a crosssbow. Howver, the trick arrows of comicdom actually have their historical factual roots in crossbow bolts. Medieval crossbow archers used a wide variety of specialized bolts (blunt tipped for stunning fowl, hollow bulbs for shooting flaming oil, etc.).
.

In terms of suspension of disbelief, there's also the small and inconvenient fact that loading a heavy crossbow takes a couple of minutes' work with a small winch, which is not something most superheroes are going to have the time to do in a fighting-with-villains situation. This is also why you don't often see them in movies, and when you do they're always some kind of silly high-tech thing in a setting where there's no earthly reason not to just use a firearm (I'm looking at you, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra).

Yeah, but I don't think that'd be much of a problem for us, since we have crossbow-toting enemies who have no problem rapid-firing them.

Except that, in Aion, once you get into water deeper than an arbitrary limit (which, depending on your choice for character height, can range from still having your head above water to being twice your height underwater), you begin to drown. Apparently, while there are boats on both Asmodae and Elysia, the concept of swimming is utterly foreign to them, and no one knows how to swim. Or even float on their backs.

And you've described the primary issue with Crossbows -- the animations. Look at the other weapon sets; weapon customization changes the mesh the character holds, not the animation for the power. You don't fire a crossbow the same way you shoot a bow. You can't add crossbows as a weapon customization for Archery because that replaces every attack animation, not just the weapon mesh. It would be much easier to make crossbows a customizable weapon option for Assault Rifle, except that Flamethrower, Ignite, and Full Auto don't work for crossbows. You could steal the Assault Rifle animations for creating a Crossbow set using the Archery powers, but then you're mixing two powersets' characteristics to create a third that doesn't really get you anything new.