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Posted

Ahh the good old days when there was more than 4 people on an EU server in one place.....


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Arete View Post
Can only speak from Union.
Since the new hamidon I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times there has been a Hamidon raid.
One of the few successful ones where the first hamidon raid after issue 9 hit (took us 7 hours).
The reason I think... not enough people. Could be the timing set etc.. but most of the raids have also ended with fail. (Looking at a previous post in this thread and envies Virtue)
Each failed attempt have made it not worth it in many peoples eyes (Too much debt, too little reward etc).
Only been on one redside raid aswell, did not go very well.
The one we are planning to do now... well I hope it will work out or it might be the last nail in the coffin for us vs Hammi.
Yes... For the lower populated servers getiing 50 +45 together is an almost impossibility. Getting them selected in groups and AT's is even harder.

I think that Hami should be co-op and make it possible again for UNION and all servers with a lower population.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Arete View Post
Can only speak from Union.
Since the new hamidon I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times there has been a Hamidon raid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory View Post
Yes... For the lower populated servers getiing 50 +45 together is an almost impossibility. Getting them selected in groups and AT's is even harder.

I think that Hami should be co-op and make it possible again for UNION and all servers with a lower population.
Yeah definitely. I've seen very few Hami raids on Union (or Defiant for that matter) in my 3+ years playing since I5. Admittedly I only have villains on Union so I've never been to any Hami raid, new or old, there. My few heroes on Defiant weren't high level enough when the old Hami Raid was being run and I've never seen a new one being run on Defiant when I've been online. From what I've heard I don't feel like I missed much - I put in enough time standing around for ages, not doing much except perhaps using one attack/spell when required, back when I used to raid in EverQuest in 1999-2002. Thankfully most MMOs have moved on from that "playstyle".

I find the Mothership Raid lots of fun because it's still chaotic (thanks to the number of foes you face) even when the raid is operating as an organised group (which it needs to, at least in the pylon and bomb stages) - it feels like those panels in comics where you see tons of heroes/villains fighting, many having their own 1v1 battles, but all mixed together and still pitching in and helping each other - to my mind this is exactly how a raid in a superhero MMO should feel. Notably on the MS raid the GM is more of a speedbump than the sole target, and yet the raid still feels epic due to the setting and the number of Rikti involved. Plus you're potentially being rewarded for every enemy you take down, not just for the main "big bad".

The MS Raid is fun, popular, co-op, involves some strategies but not so many (nor so complex) that new players struggle to learn them, and I've seen it done with as few as 3-4 teams (important for servers with lower populations) - that should be the model for raids in this game, imho. Everyone can join in (levels allowing - super-sidekick makes that less of an issue), just have fun and be rewarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I think the Atlas statue is sort of a like mini version of an old Hamidon raid - you get a lot of players just hanging out together and chatting, although it can also get quite quiet sometimes too, as there's no actual reason to be there except to hang out.
I agree with GG - we need the Atlas statue turned into a huge GM that periodically awakes and attacks all of the people gathered underneath it.



Actually that would be a pretty fun raid...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem View Post
The MS Raid is fun, popular, co-op, involves some strategies but not so many (nor so complex) that new players struggle to learn them, and I've seen it done with as few as 3-4 teams (important for servers with lower populations) - that should be the model for raids in this game, imho. Everyone can join in (levels allowing - super-sidekick makes that less of an issue), just have fun and be rewarded.

I totally agree. I have no use for the vanguard merits anymore, but I do it because its just fun. Watching everyone fly up to the mothership is just an epic event in this game, and it never really loses that feeling.


 

Posted

There are only 2 things i really kind of miss about the old raids.

The first is the feeling of epicness. The few i went to years ago had... hundreds of people. As you fought, bodies were on the ground, being rezed, you had people flying above you, run around you, it felt more like a desprit fight for survivle then it does now.

The second is, it was one of the only encounters in the game where the controller was univerisally wanted for CONTROL and not our secondarys with control as a bonus. At the time i was a gravity/kin, and it was nice to be wanted BECAUSE i was a gravity guy, and not because of my Kin powers.

Things i DON'T miss are the massive MASSIVE lag spikes, and greifing.

Of the two, i think this newest one is the better one. (our current one) It still isn't perfect, but it's smoother and slightly more complex. It does lose a bit of it epic feel IMO, but not so much that it isn't fun.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven View Post
...am I the only one who's had fun with both the old and new style Hami raids...?
No, but I did not enjoy the old raid's mechanics whatsoever. I only enjoyed it because I'm a powergamer who wanted HOs, because I did it with friends, and because I occasionally had a leadership role, usually targeter.

I much prefer the new mechanics. While repetitive, I find it far more engaging. Whatever each team is doing, it has some level of urgency. It has urgency becase letting each wave persist too long risks that someone who's either holding aggro or otherwise managing a dangerous entity will be defeated, and that can lead to a cascade breakdown of the attack wave. Faster is safer.

I also hated the "yellow dawn" with a burning passion, because the old raid style had limited control over preventing it. Too much server-side or network lag and Hami would break the holds and then odds were things were done with until a server reset.

Is the new raid perfect? No. But its mechanics actually require most of the engaged players to actually do a lot more besides /follow + auto attack. The social aspect of the old raid is missing in large part because no one has time to do it. In my mind that is a mark of success.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post

I also hated the "yellow dawn" with a burning passion,.
I would have loved just once to have seen a "yellow dawn" but that was before my time.
How many yellows could actually spawn?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by First Son View Post
I would have loved just once to have seen a "yellow dawn" but that was before my time.
How many yellows could actually spawn?
One per hero in the Hive, which IIRC capped at about 120.

It was a sight to behold for sure.



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Posted

My understanding is that was one per hero and pet. I don't know if I saw proof of that, but it's possible I did and just don't remember.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
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Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
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Posted

I remember doing plenty of raids before the change, and now I haven't been to a single one since. I don't even know if there has been a successful one on Victory since the changes were implemented.


 

Posted

Yellow Dawn, an epic sight. Once the wiki comes back up, I'm sure they have a picture of it. And Hami and all his kids would just sit there for days, until the servers were reset.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
My understanding is that was one per hero and pet. I don't know if I saw proof of that, but it's possible I did and just don't remember.
That was my understanding as well. i think it was verified by noting the number and location of yellows. When a Yellow Dawn happened a yellow Mito would appear directly over each player and pet if they were in the bowl. A complete, nigh-unrecoverable wipe would quickly follow.


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Posted

I remember the old Hami Raids. I remember making sure I had a costume with no aura effects (still had a cape though). I remember getting a chance to meet people and form some friendships.

I also remember the massive lag, the feeling like I didn't /have/ to do much, although I would definitely try my best to stay engaged and fighting instead of auto everything.

I helped out on Virtue when the new raid went live. I helped out hero side and did enjoy it for a while. Then I just found that I was not around as much when Raids were happening, so I haven't been on them for years, and I have never been on the red side ones.

I seriously want to get back into doing them, not for merits, but for Hami-Os. For the fun of it, and to see what sort of people I meet. See some old friends who I don't see around much, and to meet some new people. I just need to get some time on the days they are run on Virtue.

Like with anything else, it is what you make of it.


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Posted

I really hated the old raid. It was no one thing, it was just boring. I hated it so much, I am yet to try the new one.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_Shecky View Post
I seriously want to get back into doing them, not for merits, but for Hami-Os.
Just bear in mind, unless you can't get on teams that do them well that the STF is a far better place to give up the merits/time spent to get a (Synthetic) Hami-O. That's to say that, in order to take a HO you probably spend less time and you definitely give up less merits.

I understand not everyone needs or cares about merits, so maybe they're just not an important consideration for you. I wanted to point it out, just in case.


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Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flarstux View Post
Is this still the basic strategy for the New Hami Raid?

Step 1. Wipe out all the mitos!
Step 2. Attack Hami! At 75% health, the mitos respawn.

Step 3. Wipe out all the mitos again!
Step 4. Attack Hami! At 50% health, the mitos respawn.

Step 5. Wipe out all the mitos again!
Step 6. Attack Hami! At 25% health, the mitos respawn.

Step 7. Wipe out all the mitos AGAIN!
Step 8. Attack Hami! Win! 52 merits or a random Hami-O. Whee.
It's more complicated than that. You start by breaking up into teams by function: Hami aggro team (tank and healers to keep the tank alive), yellow mito aggro team (tanks), yellow mito killing teams (scrappers and leftover tanks), green mito killing teams (controllers and defenders), blue mito killing teams (blasters). Each team should have controller or defender who can teleport and rez to pull fallen teammates out of the goo.

Then you go around whacking the monsters to collect EoE inspirations and spawn Hami. Once Hami is spawned, the EoEs get passed to the tanks and everyone forms up in a cluster

Then each iteration follows the same procedure. Buffs are dropped on the tanks. The Hami aggro team goes in and gets Hami's attention while the
yellow mito aggro team each grab a yellow mito's attention, using EoEs to keep damage manageable, since they don't get healers. Once the aggro is contained, the mito killing teams go in, each one focusing on its assigned color. As each yellow mitos go down, the tank taunting it follows the scrapper team and helps take down subsequent yellow mitos. If a team clears all of its assigned color earlier than the others, they help with the remaining colors depending on their power options.

When all the mitos are down, everyone dogpiles Hami, with the raid leader watching Hami's HP bar; when it gets down close to the pop point, the TP/rezzers on each team bail out of the goo so they can recover downed teammates. When the pop happens, everyone else bails out of the goo, making sure that they duck behind a rock long enough to break targeting before meeting back at the start point. Sometimes someone forgets, and Hami proves how much he hax by reaching out and dropping a splash on everyone as they form up for the next iteration.

Each repeat goes the same way, except for the last, where no one bails and we grind Hami into the ground.

I suppose that it would be possible, if you got the timing right, to get all the yellow mito aggro team back out into position to grab aggro back right after the pop and start the next cycle without going through the rest-and-rebuff process, but it would be a great deal trickier to pull off. If you could do it, it would make for an impressive raid time, though.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by srmalloy View Post
I suppose that it would be possible, if you got the timing right, to get all the yellow mito aggro team back out into position to grab aggro back right after the pop and start the next cycle without going through the rest-and-rebuff process, but it would be a great deal trickier to pull off. If you could do it, it would make for an impressive raid time, though.
Raids are doing that atm, at least as far as i know, Virtue is doing evacless raid for most of our Blueside ones (redside still needs a bit of work without emps)


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Posted

Yeah, Justice does those as well. In fact, we usually have to clarify at the beginning of each raid which version we'll be using. The choice of which version will be used is primarily determined how many reliable Tankers are on hand. Having fewer than normal, so one Tanker is managing multiple mitos, or having Tankers on deck we either aren't familiar with or that we don't know how on the ball they are usually means the leaders go with the regular fall back between blooms. Number of EoEs or buffers is a factor too, but the initial judgment is usually based on the Tanker staff.


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American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
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Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
My understanding is that was one per hero and pet. I don't know if I saw proof of that, but it's possible I did and just don't remember.
1 per enemy effected. So, Imps counted, but PA did not, since they are essentially perma-phased.


 

Posted

Holy carp thats alot of mitos.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle View Post
1 per enemy effected. So, Imps counted, but PA did not, since they are essentially perma-phased.
Cool. Thanks for that bit of historical info.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by srmalloy View Post
Each repeat goes the same way, except for the last where no one bails and we grind Hami into the ground.
That's what I said. Although I opted to go with a much more 'basic' approach so as not to obscure the point in a flourish of detail. (That point being, in case anyone missed it: there's so much rinsing and repeating going on there that participants should consider wearing protective rubber gloves so as to avoid the embarrassment of dishpan hands.)

Also, I was curious as to whether anyone had found another viable approach (apart from attempts at 'nuking' Hami at various stages in the procedure).


 

Posted

Very interesting reading. I wish I could have seen the old style Hami raid just for the sake of seeing it.

I've done the new one a few times though I'm not a regular raider. I was part of an evacless raid on Virtue this week, which I found to be an exciting twist. We had to pull out of the goo when our buffs/debuffs started to wear off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grae Knight View Post
I miss the old Hami Raids. It was alot easier to have a Hamidon Raid for your super group since you do not need as many specific power sets. You could have one tanker, a few empaths and a team of Illusion controllers and you were good to go.
Of all the comments so far, this one stuck out a bit. So you don't need specific power sets, yet these are the ones needed? It seems like the new raid is more open to variation.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scootertwo View Post
Holy carp thats alot of mitos.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad View Post
Ever bring a non granite Tanker? Simple truth is, old Hami needed 4 specific Powersets spread among 8-12 people.
What does Granite have to do with it?
Did I ever bring a non-Granite tank? Yes.
Even better: Was I ever lead taunt on a non-Granite tank? Yes to that also.


P.S. A yellow dawn also resulted in epic, crippling lag as the number of entities in the area instantly doubled.


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