Going Rogue clarifications

I specifically remember multiple posts (some interviews with other sites) where the devs (and Posi in particular) said that future epic ATs will have NOTHING to do with getting to 50 as they perceived that as a horrid way of doing it.

They stated only did it that way for Villains for parity with heroes.

So yeah i wouldn't hold my breath expecting hitting 50 in GR is the way to unlock an epic AT over in GR. If there is one that is.

EDIT: Also those statements were made right before, during and after the VEATs were launched.

Sigh. This question [about SG status if you go rogue] was asked at HeroCon at least twice, and I've read it on the forums about a dozen times.

Every time the devs have answered it (which they did, at least both times it was asked at HeroCon), they said that they are working on a solution that will make the greatest number of people as happy as they can make them.

Just because it's not a definitive answer doesn't mean they haven't given one. Patience, grasshopper.

Oh, oka-Wait a minute, so the answer is 'we don't know yet'?

I mean, thanks for letting me know that I did indeed fail my search-fu, and this was a question on others' minds as well, but... Ah, well, I'll have patience.

The answer is: "They're working on it. They know it's an issue, they're working on a solution."

I'm sure we'll get more info between now and Q2 2010.

I'm sorry if I came off too sarcastic, but the amount of anger/frustration/entitlement over how much we don't know at least 5 months away from release...

I think some people expected the "sneak peek" to be a bound copy of the final patch notes for Going Rogue, regardless of how much work still needs to be done.

Note: Speculation incoming.


Making the "greatest number of people as happy as they can make them" would seem to me that:

a) A vigilante could be part of a VG or a SG.
b) A rogue could be part of a VG or a SG.

And I would be pretty happy with that.

Adding to the speculation, since vigilantes and rogues still use their home contacts/market, my speculation would be that they would not be kicked out of a SG/VG that they're currently in. Only when they go all the way to the other side would that happen.

I have wondered the same, GG. Specifically, I have tried to imagine the sewers in ultra-mode...

What obsession? I am merely stating possibilities. There may be no EAT at all.

Do they? You said yourself the devs chose to make the VEAT unlocked at 50 because of the parity with the HEAT. Why would that not apply to any new EAT associated with those who are NOT Heroes or Villains?

Perhaps you would prefer to take a different approach. Why don't you describe a potential means of unlocking an EAT, and then explain why it would be accepted that it does not have parity to the existing EATs?

So I'm not the only one who thinks most folks FAIL to understand what the words "sneak" and "peak" mean.

Good to know.

I recall reading ages ago (I BELIEVE in a post from Positron, before Issue 12 was released and brought us VEATs) that any future epics would be unlocked through specific content, such as a particularly difficult taskforce or trial.

The VEATs were unlocked by reaching level 50 specifically to keep the "DEBZ H8 VILINZ!!1" crowd from causing an uproar.

Anyway, since current information seems to imply that you can't keep a straight Praetorian character much beyond level 20 before you have to pick a side, it's highly unlikely that you'll ever be able to get a level 50 Praetorian to unlock an epic class.

I would assume that any Hero AT (turned Vigilante, Villain or Rogue) will probably still just unlock Kheldians and any Villain AT (turned Rogue, Hero or Vigilante) will probably still just unlock the Soldiers of Arachnos. But again, that's just an assumption. In any case, I sincerely doubt that a level 50 Vigilante or Rogue would unlock both epic ATs--just one or the other depending on either your starting class or the side to which you lean strongest.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Again, specify exactly why providing another EAT that is not unlocked by getting to 50 would not cause a similar uproar.

And it was not the VILLAINS who benefitted from VEATs being unlocked by getting to 50. It was the Heroes that would have complained, if Villains could unlock their EATs earlier. The Villains would have been perfectly happy with a different mechanism. I see exactly the same thing happening it Praetorians can unlock a new EAT prior to 50.

To be concise, I am saying the following:

1) If anyone who starts in the Praetorian start areas does not unlock either the HEATs or VEATs when they get to 50 (it does not matter how, it could be based on if they choose Hero or Villain, or which side their AT originally came from) then for parity they should have an EAT to unlock at 50.

2) If Heroes or Villains who begin the side switching process can no longer unlock HEATs or VEATs when they get to 50, then for parity they should have an EAT to unlock at 50. Mind you, if they can unlock HEATs or VEATs once they complete the switch to Villain or Hero or back again, that's another issue, I'm talking about if they lose the ability to unlock EATs forever. (And note that we are talking about the possibility of side switching characters unlocking BOTH EATs, something that the devs may not wish to allow)

3) If any new EAT is introduced that can be unlocked prior to 50, then if only Praetorians can unlock that EAT, for parity, Heroes and Villains should have an EAT unlocked in the same way.

4) If any new EAT is introduced that can be unocked prior to 50, and only those who become Vigilantes or Rogues can unlock it, then for parity those who choose never to side switch should have an EAT unlocked in the same way.

Now, if new EATs are introduced that ANYONE can unlock, and Praetorians can somehow unlock the existing HEATs and VEATs, then that's fine.

This is what I'm hoping for. Specifically, new EATs that anyone can unlock, and Praetorians would be able to unlock the existing EATs by either going all the way heroside and hitting 50 there, or the reverse. You'd either unlock HEATs or VEATs depending on your alignment when you hit 50. At least, that's what I'd like to see.

I agree. I thought I was being clear about that, but we really don't know yet. It's possible it could work that way, or one of the "perks" of staying a Hero and never switching sides could be that you unlock Kheldians.

I'm not saying that it should be one way or another, just that the devs need to keep in mind what is equitable.

I hope this is the case, or at least part of it.

Unless they totally revamp the system.

Hrm, I wonder if allowing SGs and VGs to coalition would be an option at some point. I mean, there are plenty of times when heroes and villains have had to work together for a common good. So why not? Same coalition rules would apply.

Also, if the "grey area" characters can access all three zones, does that mean that Hero and Villain bases could potentially get porters to access their respective counter-sides?

And if that's that case, would bases themselves need to be looked at so that they're capable of having X amount additional teleporters. I'd love to see additional storage capacity as well.

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And to build on this scenario what if you are put in a place holder status in that you are somehow starred or marked in some way to denote that you have gone pure villain to the SG.

This would not automatically kick you since you could come all the way back to hero with some effort but would prevent you from using base assets and whatnot. Maybe the only way to leave the SG in this way is the same route when joining another SG. If you wanted to join a villain SG with no intentions of turning hero again then you would have to quit your former hero SG.

This would show that you have truly embraced your villainous ways...

Of course still just pure speculation.

Originally by Arcanaville: Everything in Praetoria was designed during a drinking binge in which the devs temporarily forgot the rules.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Except that, again, Positron has already stated that once you hit level 20, you are expected to choose to become either a Hero or a Villain. There will (probably) be higher-end content as well, but you can't stay a Praetorian through it. Since you can't have a level 50 Praetorian, there's absolutely no reason to have an EAT unlocked simply because your character started in Praetoria.

I agree, as you may have seen in my last post, that the devs probably don't want people to be able to unlock both Hero and Villain EATs on one character. However, I also sincerely doubt they'd lock someone from unlocking one or the other based on being middle of the road. The most rational options are, again, to either let starting Hero ATs unlock HEATs regardless of their morality status at level 50 (and ditto for the Villains and VEATs), or to let your morality at the moment you hit level 50 determine which EAT is unlocked.

It is entirely reasonable to assume that a new EAT will (eventually) require access to Praetoria to unlock. It would be incredibly unwise of the developers to limit that only to players who start in Praetoria, given that anyone who purchases the Going Rogue expansion can visit with their existing Heroes and Villains. Furthermore, the Ouroboros system is already in place to visit outlevelled content, should that be an issue.

See the above response, with the added intonation that making a Vigilante- or Rogue-only EAT would be kind of a stupid idea.

And this goes right back to what the developers have said in the past: they'd rather have any additional EATs unlocked via a completed challenge. Given that anyone who purchases Going Rogue can access Praetoria with any character on either side of the moral fence, it's much more reasonable to believe that this (or another equally accessible area) will be the future site of any additional EATs to be unlocked in the future.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Sometimes, you lose access to EATs. The solution is to log in an existing level 50 to reacquire them. I suspect that unlocking HEATs will be tied to ATs that are "supposed to be" heroes, and VEATs to those that "should be" villains, regardless of morality. Otherwise, you could just have your 50 switch sides, and have both unlocked.

And I agree that this is probably the best way to handle the issue. (But that's just based on my opinion and way of thinking and is in no way an indication of any plans made by the developers. )

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

All right, let's take the converse. When you create a character in Praetoria, and you get to 50, you unlock an EAT. Which EAT?

You could say that it depends on if you chose Hero or Villain. If you chose Hero, you unlock the HEAT, if you choose Villain you unlock the VEAT. But what if that is not a permanent choice? What if you choose to become a Hero, but then become a Vigilante and then a Villain? What do you unlock then?

Or, you could say it depends on the AT. If you get a Blaster to 50, you unlock the HEAT, if you get a Dominator to 50, you unlock the VEAT. But what if your Blaster is a Villain? You unlock the EAT for Heroes with a Villain?

The problem is that we don't know what happens with a REGULAR Blaster from Paragon City who switches sides to Villain hits 50. Does he unlock the HEAT, or the VEAT? Do you know? I don't know. And without even that basic knowledge, I can't say that a Praetorian that gets to 50 gets to unlock an HEAT, a VEAT, or anything at all. It may be that only Heroes who stay Heroes get to unlock the HEAT. Is a Praetorian who chooses to become a Hero at 50 a "Hero who stayed a Hero"? Even if he's of one of the other side's ATs?

Would you say it is fair that a player who starts a character in Praetoria cannot unlock an EAT at all? Do you know for absolute certainty that a character that starts in Praetoria will be allowed to unlock an existing EAT?

This would be an easy one to answer. A Regular Heroic AT who switched to villain, then hits 50, unlucks a HEAT as he STARTED as a hero. A Regular Villan AT who switched to hero, then hits 50, unlokcs a VEAT as he STARTED as a villain.

Any further Epic ATs can be unlocked by ANYONE from ANY SIDE via whatever new, NON-level requirement 50 parameters the devs set up.

That was easy.

EDIT: Easy, as in that is the easiest way I can see it being done.

EDIT 2: Meaning the game couldn't care less if you start as a hero, villain, vigilante, reisistance, loyast, prateroain or cauliflower.

The devs make any new requirement to unlock an epic AT (which isn't level locked) be open to any of them when they complete those requirements.

The ATs in question are EPIC because of their STORYLINE, not because they are stronger or better than any of the regular ATs. Thus I always thought the level 50 requirement was silly as hell. The devs finally agreed.

To further clarify I don't see Praet as a new "side" in the way that COV and COH were at one time (and will NO LONGER BE just by existence of the features coming in GR). I see it as another storyline that really has no side since you can switch to anything you want at any time. (at any time meaning you are no locked to hero, villain, or Praterian alignments, not at any time as in fast.)

However, you do NOT know if that it the way it WILL be done.

And if a Praetorian does not START as either a Hero or a Villain, then what does he unlock?