Underwater?

Hey, did you hear? They're replacing BABs with some guy named Gibbers, who has figured out how to make an Underwater Zone work! Only problem is, they are going to release it sometime in 2011.

I am going to laugh at you now. I don't know when I'll stop. This isn't personal. You're just that dumb.

We need to make powers not look incredibly stupid when used in water. I'm with BABs on this one - in order for an underwater environment to look good, powers have to behave differently. See, this is one of the reasons I LOVE our development team, and BABs in particular - they have standards of only introducing things in the game that actually look good, and not half-assing something just so it's there and who cares about quality. Even sans grapics update, our game still looks very good for how old it is, and I lay this entirely on the shoulders of BABs, Jay and their minions, as well as the programmers behind the scenes making it possible.

I'm not against an underwater zone if it looks good. I don't envision making this happen being in the slightest worth the workload involved.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

See, this I'd love. You know that mission in Time After Time where you look out a window over the future Cap Au Diable? That was amazingly cool, and I'd LOVE to see more of it. You know those Longbow bases that are all said to be underwater? Yeah, how can we tell? We're told they are, we may see a single submarine pen, and we have one dead end with water dripping from the ceiling which might as well be a leaky pipe. How about a large window looking out into the ocean? It doesn't have to show much, just a but of reef dropping off into the void and maybe a fish or two making endless loops.

Or how about something more exciting? How about an underwater base with plenty of large plate windows and glass tube corridors, where you can see the parts you've already visited out the walls? You can already sort of fudge that in Arachnos labs. I understand Longbow bases are just retextured blue labs (they even have the same misplaced geometry), but this is the perfect opportunity for Going Rogue to shine - revamp the old tilesets! Make underwater bases have windows to the water. Make high-rise maps have windows overlooking the city skyline. Even if it's not from the same zone we came in, I wouldn't mind, just so long as I can look out. Give warehouses windows to the outside. They don't have to see the REAL zone, or even the SAME zone, just a sidewalk with buildings. Make us come in through a roof access hatch, or through a WALL!

But, yeah, windows to underwater locations, please, even if we can't get to them.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Yeah, everyone knows that only works in the southern hemisphere.

You heard it here first! Bill Roper will be hired to design an underwater zone for CoX!

Wow. Disrespecting an iconic character. Classy.

He has a point.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

BABS just killed my inner child. ;_;

*shakes fist*
YOU BIG MEANIE!

Happened in the past 7 or so years (he had been slowly getting the other buffs). Since Atlantis has had some references to King Arthur in the past, there was a full storyline with him meeting the Lady of the Lake and she essentially healed the harpoon hand into the form of the water hand in return for him becoming her champion for some sort of mystical conflict. DC has fluctuated on the full abilities of the water hand but one of the most glaring buffs is that outside of outright dehydration weaponry, Aquaman no longer has a timer for how long he can survive without water. It's a magical weapon (which actually gives him an edge on Superman in a fight) yet it can negate or at least affect other magical weapons which makes him a threat to magical enemies. I think it has also given him true healz0r abilities when on the team.

My Arcs
-----
Mission Architect Handyman

Wow. I mean...really. Wow.

Not only are my dreams and desires to see an interactive underwater zone in CoH completely crushed, but one of my first heroes I emulated to learn how to swim (Aquaman) is now considered lame by a dev I truly repsected.

Aside from some very dynamic and well thought out discussions on this, and with the understanding that the 'quality' of the zone/power effects/travel in an underwater zone are considered high on there 'needs' list for any willing to make this zone happen, I must truly say that I'm saddened by the motivation-stopping brakes that were just applied to this particular player request.

Are there work arounds that can be done? Sure. Sam (et al) noted making underwater bases and maps using a variant of the arachnos base maps to maybe redraw them as a base being underwater or walking through underwater tubes (replace the wall mesh with glass; change the inaccessible background behind the mesh/glass to water with little fishes and sharks swimming along; have a few drips coming from pipes, tanks, water puddles to slip on, etc). Granted this idea/workaround doesn't allow for an interactive 'swim free' zone to do battle in, which would indeed be the penultimate environment to battle in (space = ultimate), but it seems there are more detractors than optimizers even in this particular train of request.

In many respects, I understand the work involved. It would, indeed, be a huge challenge to make this environment to any degree of battle-capable quality.

If we were to have an interactive underwater zone for heroes/villains to swim and battle in, from previous discussions in this thread, the use and feel of powers in that environment seem to be the major detractor. For that, I cannot think of any alternate solutions other than maybe crafting a "magic" or "science" artifact/item that allows a character (while in the underwater zone) to fight in that medium as if they were fighting above ground wherein the characters/NPCs would move around with a 'flight/swim" mode much like that in the underwater swimming maps that some of us have experienced in-game already and battle as normally as if they were above water. In this repsect, the zone's storylines, missions and content should be the primary focus; the underwater environment is a medium that any story designer could tell you is a setting or backdrop to the storyline. With a little imagination, the latter can be done.

Options for a few things that come to mind in regards to underwater breathing have already been mentioned, however, to add what I can, the design that is utilized for characters to use backpack-style fire extinguishers in fighting fires in Steel Canyon in the game can be modified to be scuba tanks that can be purchased/provided by an NPC prior to entering an underwater zone, with a 1 (or 2 or more) hour(s) air supply, otherwise, they loose health in that environment without it. Have some 'domed' or "air pocket" areas in the zone where players/NPCs can battle, swim/run to, talk to contacts, merit vendors, trainers, etc. These 'domed' or 'air pocket' areas can be even joined together with air-filled tubes or even underground tunnels. There are always options with a little imagination. What's to say the Atlanteans/Lemurians/whatever-group-that-is-made need air as well as water to live?

Nontheless, it seems our requests and inputs for this feature shall fall on deaf ears.

In the past, I've taken challenges that were deemed impossible to do; I've overcome some incredible adversity in my life to get where I am now; I have (to quote good 'ole Clint Eastwood) "Overcome, adapted and improvised" on many critical tasks set before me. The CoH/CoV Devs have also met many challenges set before them and triumphed. I am quite surprised that the "Freem Team" is letting 'water' stop them.

I find this squashing of any potential of an underwater zone/maps/storyline disheartening. Optimism, I guess, can be fleeting.

I have a couple of puppies ya'll can kick while your at it to just keep the flow going...

It's not that it's "too hard" for them to do. It's that the payout isn't big enough for the work involved. Just like when we play the game, the devs work on risk vs. reward. This is the equivalent of a level 10 pure Emp defender trying to solo a mob in PI; sure, the payoff might be big at the end, but you're going to spend a lot more time and energy doing that when there are many, many better ways to earn experience.

(And Aquaman really is lame. Puppies kick him when they've had a rough day.)

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Meh... the fact that Superman is too nice a guy to just fry him with heat vision from 10 miles away or drop a small asteroid on his head is what gives him (and everyone else) an edge on Supes in a fight. It does sound like they made Aquaman a bit more interesting though... maybe I'll try and dig up some back issues sometime.

As for an underwater zone, I really like Lemuria in Champions (when it's not lagging too bad, but that has nothing to do with the water) but I can understand the complaints about powers working the same way underwater breaking immersion. The visual effects could be really cool, but I agree that to really do it right would be a huge challenge... and would also be totally unfair to certain builds since (for example) Fire would be virtually useless while Sonic would be supercharged.

I enjoy the visual effects enough to suspend disbelief on things like that, but I can see where others wouldn't.

50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control

I feel ya, but I have to agree that until it can be done well, it shouldn't be done, although I alway considered giving everyones powers a "diffused" appearance and cut everyones range, damage, and accuracy by 50% since were would be underwater. I think folks would adapt after sometime when playing in such a zone.


PS Aquaman s lame, but the Sub-Mariner



kicks ***!

Super Friends Aquaman is the one everyone calls lame. Because he is.

He's the one they call lame now, but back then I don't think so. I think that audience in that day actually liked him. The problem is the modern comic reader is either stuck with the Super Friends image of Aquaman, one that needs serious updating and definition of abilities to make him a force, or they are confused as to which Aquaman is the real one between hook hand, water hand, Justice League Cartoon, Batman Brave and Bold Cartoon, etc, etc. There are too many varying modern versions of Aquaman and the classic "Icon" is too associated with the older riding on seahorses, swims fast, and has the typical square jawed can do no wrong silver age mind set.

As to Namor better than Aquaman:



PWND! LOL

50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control

Talk about delusional. If anything Babs said Sam was right.

This looks like you're trapped in a valley under a forcefield. Also, it looks like you tripped and you're about to faceplant. I know it was supposed to look like you're underwater, bit with that lush green grass underfoot and the complete lack of atmosphere, it just looks like someone cut off a valley.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

But, Sub-Mariner is cool!