Underwater?

You're running off some odd information and odd conclusions:

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Originally Posted by ZNRGY_XERONUS Buster Sword: Doesn't look right when animated (or something like that)

And he's right. Sticking a Buster Sword in the Katana powerset would look patently stupid. Hell, some of the katana in there are pushing the limits as it is, a sword bigger than the player just doesn't work with these animations. A Buster Sword would require its own powerset to give it the feeling of mass and momentum it needs. BABs didn't say no to giant swords. He said no to giant swords in sets with small, light-weight swords.

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Forcefield Mace: Talsorian weapons have no mass -- won't do it!

That was a joke.

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Swinging Travel Power: Looks silly with swingline coming out of nowhere!

This isn't a question of "making it work." To grapple, you need something to grapple to, and unless you're grappling clouds or subscribe to the ridiculous idea of shooting balloons in the air and grappling them, there's nothing to grapple to in the middle of open ocean, over a low-tree-line forest or just generally anywhere away from tall buildings. Even Spider-Man who generally enjoys creative freedom still suffers from this limitation.

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Underwater Zone: Aquaman is lame!

I think your reading glasses are foggy. "Aquaman is lame" was just a footnote joke. The actual reasoning is what we've been discussing all along - you need a TON of work to make the underwater experience anything other than ugly and crappy, and that just isn't happening.

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To now fall back on real world physical laws or because you think they're lame or silly to justify not adding a powerset/feature is kinda weak.

It's not falling on real world physics. It's falling on real world aesthetics. I don't want an underwater world of epileptic trees where smoke billows without dissolving into the water, where fire burns without creating bubbles and where explosions produce high-pitched bangs instead of the low-pitch rumble you get underwater. Powers need to work that way not because it's realistic, but because if they don't it looks UGLY and STUPID. And I'm not saying that to be insulting. It's just ridiculous on the same level as Baron Münchhausen picking himself up out of the water by his own ponytail.

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I think it would be awesome to have to put a respirator on my toon and swim to an underwater base or city to combat an enemy!

And then we're back to the old debate. Why should I put a respirator on a character who already has a gas mask or a full-face helmet? It's like iron-man shoving a scuba gear mouth piece in his mouth slit if he has to go underwater, even though we've seen that his suit is a sealed environment. So then DON'T put on a respirator and... What about characters with an open face who SHOULD have a respirator? It's a solvable problem, but it's not as simple as you make it out to be. And it's not even the biggest problem.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Sorry ST, but we play superheroes and villains that shot beams of energy from their limbs, that leap over buildings. If I was a dev, I'd figure out how to make the things I BABs shoots down doable and not look silly, ugly and or stupid. I don't have a problem with the devs saying they can't do something because of time and resource constraints, but to say that they're not going to do something because they perceive that it's silly, ugly and or stupid is something else, when you consider the genre this game is set in.

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Haven't read through all of this. Just posting a few thoughts.

1. I want underwater to feel like underwater. I want the physics, the drift, etc. Yes, breathing CAN be handwaved away - "We need your help, but we want you alive. If you can't breathe underwater normally and otherwise need to, (magic or tech explanation to handwave here.)" If it's an underwater zone- you run across a badge. The doorway won't open for you without it (right in front of the first contact, no level restriction.) It says you can now deal with breathing underwater and water pressure. Poof.

2. Powers. Powers are more tricky, yes.

Disable them all. *shrug* Honestly, if we're doing an underwater (say, coralax-themed) area, the missions will end up being the inevitable underwater city, sub base, etc. We'll do very *little* actually in the water - and when we're there, why not provide us with temp "spear guns" and the like for any hunts?

3. Powers, part 2. There are times some powersets have an advantage. Steel Canyon fires? I've soloed them with my Ice/Emp. I put them out quickly. I think I'd be somewhat disappointed if the same DIDN'T hold true underwater - AOE ice hold? Holds a bigger area. Earth? Perhaps less, but causes greater -fly (-swim?) Limit the range on everything. Though, honestly, given the reaction to "All your powers are different" in PVP, this MIGHT not be as popular an idea.

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An underwater zone is not a silly idea. I was going to point out why it's not, but why bother! Some of you here, lack creativity and can't see how awesome a zone like that could be to our game. You're so quick to just shoot down an idea and throw a typical CO is crap response as answer (which wasn't mentioned at all). So let me just join the drone chorus and say, the Devs are gods and are going to ultimately to do what they want -- duh!

I never said that BABs said that an underwater zone would be "silly" -- Samuel Tow said CO's underwater zone was silly. What I'm calling into question is why does BABs think that it will ultimately be stupid to do a zone such as that! I can think of all kinds of ways that zone could use existing mobs and new mobs created to inhabit the area. How the Portal Corp could be used for the zone. How the mythological origins of Statesman and Lord Recluse could play into the underwater content. New aquatic monsters to battle and undersea bases and cities that we players could explore. Granted it would be a lot of work for the Devs to do, but I sincerely think it would be a great addition to the game. Now, if the game can't support it that's fine, but if it can it should remain as a viable development option at a later date.

I apologize for insulting anyone, but lately, everytime I make a suggestion or offer a counterpoint, I get posts telling me that or inferring that I'm an idiot for it. Just because you don't agree with my point/opinion doesn't mean it's not valid. Just because some of you have made your points against an underwater doesn't mean I have to go along with it and vice versa. I haven't played CO's underwater content so I can't speak to it and it never came to mind when making my post. I'm only posting about this game and what I think a zone like that could lend to it.

Admittedly, I misspoke about the "silly" reference and for that I'm sorry and I apologize to BABs for that! I do read the forum a lot but I can't read every post. It is the Devs job to know what they can or can't be done and I understand only a fraction of what can be done in a game like this. There's never really, at least in my opinion, a clear message about what can be done in this game until it actually goes live. I never thought we would have power customization and I posted quite a bit about wanting it in the game. When BABs explained the complexity of what it entailed, I let it go and didn't post about it further. Here we are with this feature now in the game, so I guess I expect a lot out of them and I'll keep expecting a lot from them because they've proven that they can accomplish a lot.

I must be blunt here, there are a lot of armchair devs on this forum and frankly I can't put any stock in what many of you say, even if it's accurate. Too many times here, you folks will jump down someone throat on a topic and are dead wrong. I've read so many post from new players asking questions and instead giving the information or how to acces the information themselves, the person is derided. Instead of being a teacher here -- you're more like a know it all bully. So pardon me if I don't take what any of you say at face value!!!

Because I don't want to quote a big post that won't quote right anyway, let me address this to ZNRGY_XERONUS:

I can respect the sentiment in your last post and I can respect what it takes to say it. I have no further qualms with your position or expression, and I hope you can keep this positive attitude further on in the thread, because I honestly do agree with you on one major point - I would like to see an underwater zone done right, because I would LOVE to see how our powers would change in water. It would be cool to see that, at least, but I just don't expect it to be something they'd work on. Again, I've seen underwater environments done WRONG, and I'd rather have them not present at all than presented like that.

There's one thing I've found to be true about creating works of art and works of fiction - cursing at limitations and stomping your feet until they go away only serves to deteriorate your work. Trust me, I've tried it, and all it did was lose me time and brain cells, and even when the limitation was lifted, the result wasn't always as spectacular as I thought. On the other hand, just reworking around limitations can sometimes produce actually superior results. In essence, I think we're likely to see an underwater zone at some point, only it won't be an IN water zone, and we'll see various cheeky ways to keep us out of the water. And if Bioshock managed to have a game take place inside an underwater city without once putting you IN the water (outside the plane crash at the beginning), then it's not quite impossible.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.