Oh I found the comment funny too. To be honest I'm actually not a huge Aquaman fan, just a DC fan in general. I just think he's an underrated character that suffers from poor writting and gets a negative image for the past. Heck look at the camp that was Batman in the 60's and after Batman Forver/Batman and Robin. I'm sure a lot of people thought Batman was lame after Adam West, yet look at him now after the Frank Miller revolution and the writters that have followed that line of thought for the character. But yes, Babs comments were funny, they always are. So, since Babs said no to a moon base and underwater zone, what about a sky zone like the Shield Hellicarrier? I'm sure Babs will love that one 
50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control
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See, this I can get behind. Let's go with a ham-fisted approach and out-and-out disable powers while swimming and just use water for travelling. That I can deal with. No powers, nothing to specifically remind me it's make-pretend. In fact, without powers to worry about, I wouldn't really mind an infinite air supply. That in itself (though it is kind of wonky) isn't really a problem I can't see past. It's that and the OTHER problems that do me in.|
Originally Posted by HeroJunkie
It seems to me that there are two issues here: Travel underwater and combat underwater.
Combat underwater would be a problem, because of fire effects, etc. But travel underwater, especially for short periods, is easily explained through magic or scuba masks (several of the new Science Booster masks are perfect for this) or holding your breath. Super powered persons should be able to hold their breath for awhile. Even some real humans can hold their breath for a long time (I just looked up the world record and it's 8 minutes 58 seconds). So perhaps traveling underwater to air-filled dome cities and such might be the way to go. Nothing to fight on the short trip down, but then you pop up inside a dome city, or inside a submerged wreck with air inside. Outside the windows you can see sharks swimming by, but you are actually inside a habitat. There could be water dripping here and there, puddles to help you feel like you are underwater. (This type of thing has been suggested before but I'm reminding people of this option.) |
Provided they can make a convincing underwater environment and we only swim through it, not fight in it, then I'd be all for such a zone. Ambience and animations are still a problem, of course, but my primary problem - Storm Summoning underwater and so on - doesn't exist. So... Go for it
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yep. Looks that way from here!
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Originally Posted by PsyFox
Yes, hysterical. See how so many of us are laughing our butts off at his dismissal of one of our favorite characters.
But I suppose that's just more emo-theatrics, too. |
You know, the funny thing is people here act like no-one's ever said someone else's favourite character sucks. Are comic book fans really THAT courteous a bunch that the mere mention of dislike of a famous character is so unthinkable as to be anathema? Because from where I'm standing, it's like showing up for American Idol and being surprised and insulted when someone says mean things to you.
So he says Aquaman sucks. Is he not entitled to feel that way?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Frank Miller Batman is lame. All boring angst and looming and brooding and contrived martial arts nonsense.|
Originally Posted by Energyman
Heck look at the camp that was Batman in the 60's and after Batman Forver/Batman and Robin. I'm sure a lot of people thought Batman was lame after Adam West, yet look at him now after the Frank Miller revolution and the writters that have followed that line of thought for the character.
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Adam West is where it's at. Just the right amount of fun and serious, with quirky but amusing gadgets to save the day. Including convenient shark repellent!
Batman: The Brave and the Bold is exactly where superheroes should be going - including Aquaman.
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Actually, you're both wrong. Tim Burton's Batman reigns supreme!
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Frank Miller Batman is lame. All boring angst and looming and brooding and contrived martial arts nonsense.
Adam West is where it's at. Just the right amount of fun and serious, with quirky but amusing gadgets to save the day. Including convenient shark repellent! Batman: The Brave and the Bold is exactly where superheroes should be going - including Aquaman. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Interestingly, Jack Nicholson's Joker is my least favourite depiction of the Joker ever, while Heath Ledger's is my favourite.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Actually, you're both wrong. Tim Burton's Batman reigns supreme!
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I .. liked Heath Ledgers portrayal of the character he was playing.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Interestingly, Jack Nicholson's Joker is my least favourite depiction of the Joker ever, while Heath Ledger's is my favourite.
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I do not like that the character he was playing was supposed to be The Joker. >.>
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Oh, nicely put, sir! You get a point.
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
I .. liked Heath Ledgers portrayal of the character he was playing.
I do not like that the character he was playing was supposed to be The Joker. >.> |
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Yes, because comics r srs bsns, and the fact that someone has a different opinion about a character than you smacks of heresy and the witch must be burned!|
Originally Posted by PsyFox
Yes, hysterical. See how so many of us are laughing our butts off at his dismissal of one of our favorite characters.
But I suppose that's just more emo-theatrics, too. Whatever. Onward. |
Yeah, like I said, no need to take it personally. Just because Aqua Man was your favorite, doesn't mean he was everyone's. Get over it.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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So you're behind the option that is essentially pointless and leads to no significant changes in gameplay? Then why bother?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
See, this I can get behind. Let's go with a ham-fisted approach and out-and-out disable powers while swimming and just use water for travelling. That I can deal with. No powers, nothing to specifically remind me it's make-pretend. In fact, without powers to worry about, I wouldn't really mind an infinite air supply. That in itself (though it is kind of wonky) isn't really a problem I can't see past. It's that and the OTHER problems that do me in.
Provided they can make a convincing underwater environment and we only swim through it, not fight in it, then I'd be all for such a zone. Ambience and animations are still a problem, of course, but my primary problem - Storm Summoning underwater and so on - doesn't exist. So... Go for it |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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While it may not lead to significant changes in gameplay it does add new content and areas that are fitting with the theme of comic books. Most comic universes, especially the big two in DC and Marvel, have water based worlds and heroes. To add an underwater zone would fit that niche. As for the compromise idea of swimming to an area with powers suppressed and then running missions in an underwater world contained within air pockets and so one sounds good to me. If they can have flaming Arachnos bases I'm sure adding dripping water and portholes wouldn't be too hard. By contrast you could do the same only in space for the moon base. Now we just have to get rid of Babs. *devilish grin*|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
So you're behind the option that is essentially pointless and leads to no significant changes in gameplay? Then why bother?
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Just kidding Babs. We love you and I'd sacrafice those zones if only for your witty board charm.
50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control
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Tim Burton's Batman was good for its time. Based very much on Frank Miller's work. Now I'm not trying to claim Frank is the best Batman writter out there, but he was the one with The Dark Knight Returns that really got Batman out of that camp image from the 60's and really made him a force in the modern era. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Actually, you're both wrong. Tim Burton's Batman reigns supreme!
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The Batman I prefer (and I'll say Batman is the top character in my book) lies somewhere along the lines of the Animated Series Batman. Frank Miller's vision is a little too dark and brooding and seems too willing to cross the line and insult others and prove his dominance and with enough prep time he can do anything and breath underwater. I'd venture that with enough prep time Frank Miller's Batman could take out Chuck Norris and Mr. T. I like a smart Batman who will never cross the line, can accept help from others if needed, but at the same time has a plan for everything and everyone at everytime. Honestly I like the Chris Nolan version.
As for Brave and the Bold, ehh. It's good kid fun but is horrible for Batman as a whole. It's very much the Super Friends again only it focuses soley on Batman and his teamup of the week. Give me JLU or the Animated Series any day. Those shows did the characters right for the most part. And shark repelent? Please tell me you're just suggesting that as a temp power for the waterzone that Babs will be forced to make one day
. And yes, you can insult my characters if you want, that's your opinion and I'm not going to go emo on you. But I may state my opinion at length and support my position.
50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control
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"Shark Repellent" is perhaps one of the longest-lived geek memes of all time. That speaks volumes of how great it is.
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Originally Posted by Energyman
And shark repelent? Please tell me you're just suggesting that as a temp power for the waterzone that Babs will be forced to make one day
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All the more reason if there ever is a waterzone it needs to be added as a temp power in that zone. Either that or they at the very least need to add it to any mission you have to fight Captain Mako. Castle, I'm eyeing you on this one, make it happen please. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
"Shark Repellent" is perhaps one of the longest-lived geek memes of all time. That speaks volumes of how great it is.
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50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control
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Settings and cosmetics. I'm not against an underwater zone, e.i. a zone physically under the water. I'm opposed to a zone that IS the water, as in a zone filled with water.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
So you're behind the option that is essentially pointless and leads to no significant changes in gameplay? Then why bother?
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However, look at precedent - the bulk of Longbow bases are already said to be underwater, and some of them even have submarine pens. Having portholes open in them to look out into the water, and even a few crossings from section to section underwater, would be a very good change.
A full-scale underwater zone that never put you in the water would be really odd. Bioshock was that way - if it weren't for the windows looking out into the ocean, the whole thing could take place underground or in space. It's a game that takes place in an underwater city, yet you never actually get to swim. An underwater zone, be it a city under a bubble dome or a city with lots of portholes, would more or less REQUIRE some swimming. But if we can retain that swimming to cosmetics only, meaning you can swim underwater, but you can't fight there, that could aid the settings without intruding on appeal or game mechanics.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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My apologies for interfering and replying to your forums.
My forum skills and sense of forum posting style, from all indications (tons of neg rep; thanks guys), are not welcome here. I thought using a little 'passive motivation', some additional suggestions and a little mention of taking this as a challenge might keep the idea alive, the suggestions flowing and maybe garner some hope of having this zone one day.
My mistake.
(/drama)Obviously I dared to play in your pool.
(/enddrama)
To end a particular point, yes, I emulated and liked Aquaman when I was very young. He motivated me to learn how to swim, hold my breath a long time underwater, etc; he is not my favorite these days for reasons, as mentioned earlier by some, due to poor writers on his books and the drab means by which they keep trying to make him different. He did have a memorable, positive, motivating impact when I was young though; yep, "lame" Aquaman 
. I at least respect that notion of what Aquaman meant to me then.
And regardless of how any of you took it, BaBs is still the man. It would've been an honor to have had him and his team do the zone 'right'.
Carry on.
Rep isn't meant to be taken seriously. Neither are the forums. They work best as a communications and information tool, not an emotional outlet. Getting overwrought about a discussion that doesn't go your way, or the fact people disagree with your take, accomplishes nothing.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Apart from the actual movement itself, and things like idles, wouldn't the flight animations work for any "x attack while swimming" animations?
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I'm going to kill everyone's pony and say that as long as I am on this project, it will never happen. They will have to replace me with a gibbering idiot to get the okay to move forward with animation and VFX needed to support 'underwater' zones.
And then it will take years and ultimately look stupid. P.S. Aquaman is lame! |
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Originally Posted by Dementor_NA
Apart from the actual movement itself, and things like idles, wouldn't the flight animations work for any "x attack while swimming" animations?
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Which is why BaB's said they would "ultimately look stupid."
Devs rarely say
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| it will never happen. |
Hmmm,
Buster Sword: Doesn't look right when animated (or something like that)
Forcefield Mace: Talsorian weapons have no mass -- won't do it!
Swinging Travel Power: Looks silly with swingline coming out of nowhere!
Underwater Zone: Aquaman is lame!
BABs no offense, but I think instead of not doing these things and putting them down, the challenge for you guys should be to figure out how to implement them and make them interesting for players. You guys have done things that I didn't think you could pull off and I very impressed at how cool they are and how well you've implemented them! Your reasons for some of the things that you don't implement, doesn't fly when you consider that all of our toons pull weapons out of thin air. To now fall back on real world physical laws or because you think they're lame or silly to justify not adding a powerset/feature is kinda weak.
I think it's odd that you feel as strongly about an underwater zone when this game has waterbased characters such as Luska, Coralax, Sally, Captain Mako and those that are loosely associated with water like the Hydra. Whole new missions with the Coralax and Captain Mako could be made if there was an underwater area in the game where players could interact in a watery environment. I think it would be awesome to have to put a respirator on my toon and swim to an underwater base or city to combat an enemy!
BTW, what does Aquaman have to do with CoH/V anyway? :P
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From my point of view the Aquaman bit was used to demonstrate a notible character in comics who is primarily based in an underwater zone. That was used to show the concept reason why a zone and characters like that would work in this game. The debates about Aquaman, to which I am a part, came from BAB's comment that he was lame. It's just a side thread that got pulled into this one.
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Originally Posted by ZNRGY_XERONUS
BTW, what does Aquaman have to do with CoH/V anyway? :P
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50s - Energyman, Elec^3 Blaster - Light Bringer Prime, Triform PB - OxyStorm, Robo/Storm/Mace MM - Widow Lotone, NW - Psi-Vox, Ill/FF/Earth Control
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Settings and cosmetics. I'm not against an underwater zone, e.i. a zone physically under the water. I'm opposed to a zone that IS the water, as in a zone filled with water.
However, look at precedent - the bulk of Longbow bases are already said to be underwater, and some of them even have submarine pens. Having portholes open in them to look out into the water, and even a few crossings from section to section underwater, would be a very good change. A full-scale underwater zone that never put you in the water would be really odd. Bioshock was that way - if it weren't for the windows looking out into the ocean, the whole thing could take place underground or in space. It's a game that takes place in an underwater city, yet you never actually get to swim. An underwater zone, be it a city under a bubble dome or a city with lots of portholes, would more or less REQUIRE some swimming. But if we can retain that swimming to cosmetics only, meaning you can swim underwater, but you can't fight there, that could aid the settings without intruding on appeal or game mechanics. |
I wouldnt be against this, as long as it opened up the whole "Under-the-Sea" theme with new powers, costume pieces, and the like.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
Underwater really seems cool, but only if well done... A WHOLE underwater world would be too much, but one where you have to cross water distances would be fun I guess. And there would have to be some kind of explanation for them to breathe underwater...
For powers to work, maybe just the melee based ones? It would be quite odd to see Fire Blast or Storm Summoning under water...
On the other side... How about Water Based powers? That would be cool too. Water Controling or Water Blast could turn out nice...
I want to use shark-repelent against Mako! It would be awesome on a STF.... LOL
And about the Aquaman stuff... Riding sea-horses and aquatic telepaty = lame. Harpoon in the place of hand in a gladiator style armor = DA BOMB.
Wonder how exactly a Atlantean (or wathever Namor was) explains having wings on it´s ankles that makes him fly... Why the heck do the Submariner needs to fly???
"Looks can be deceiving" - Statesman (in Memoriam)
It seems to me that there are two issues here: Travel underwater and combat underwater.
Combat underwater would be a problem, because of fire effects, etc.
But travel underwater, especially for short periods, is easily explained through magic or scuba masks (several of the new Science Booster masks are perfect for this) or holding your breath. Super powered persons should be able to hold their breath for awhile. Even some real humans can hold their breath for a long time (I just looked up the world record and it's 8 minutes 58 seconds).
So perhaps traveling underwater to air-filled dome cities and such might be the way to go. Nothing to fight on the short trip down, but then you pop up inside a dome city, or inside a submerged wreck with air inside. Outside the windows you can see sharks swimming by, but you are actually inside a habitat. There could be water dripping here and there, puddles to help you feel like you are underwater.
(This type of thing has been suggested before but I'm reminding people of this option.)