OK, the "Get the News Out!" mission is officially stupid!
By
American_Valor,
Posted on: 2009-10-18 11:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Invisibility or high defense so you can click the glowies and ignore the mobs. SR, PFF or the like will have it pretty easy.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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fixed where?
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Originally Posted by Blood Spectre
fixed
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He means he fixed the reference to Lois Lane in his previous post. |
Originally Posted by Mr. NoPants
fixed where?
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I beat that mission once. I don't think I've ever failed it, because between the generators and Silver Mantis, it's a mission I normally drop. But I did do the mission at least once, and I managed to save one generator, but that's only because I spotted it right away and flew right to it.
I also normally drop the mission against the Positron and Manticore automatons. I completed it with my Fire/Fire brute, but I don't like non-climactic missions against one EB, let alone two.
Frankly, I don't care for Dark Watcher's arc much at all. But I do enjoy Levantera's and Serpent Drummer's arcs.
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Another mission that is often problematic is the rescue Lady Gray. If you're not careful the AoEs will kill her if you fight right near her.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The Lemur makes a good point. The mission, as designed, isn't the problem, no matter what my stance on protect objectives may be. Other missions employ this mechanic and they work just fine. The problem is that the generators are too weak, the enemies too numerous and all their AoE makes saving them very hard. As well, there seems to be a bug with script triggers that's been going around at least since the latest patch, and I suspect since I16 went Live. A LOT of scripted even triggers fire far, far, FAR too early. Like, I'll hear the end boss's dialogue as soon as I set foot inside a huge instance, and he's nowhere around me. On the mission where you have to fight Sefu and WMD, they both activated far too early and got into fights long, long before I found them.
Really, what ruins this mission isn't the fact that it can fail, it's that it can fail so damn easily. Take two steps, attackers spawn, and by the time you turn around the generator is gone. This shouldn't be happening so easily. |
As for solutions, there are some that are easier than others so I'll list them in what I think the Doability order is:
Dependent Objectives- If the generators were set so they weren't spawned until something else happened, it may be more unrealiztic, but it would give players a chance to examine and clear the map then have a handle on where to go.
Objects- Changing the rules for Defendable objects (those attacked by NPCs) such that they behave differently than Attackable Objects (those attacked by Players), then it would mean greater survivability and playability. There's 3 ways to handle that.
a) implement the Purple Patch Code wrt the objective level vs the NPC level. Right now they effectively con super gray in most cases because all objects have a true level that's very low. If they were set to con red or orange no matter what the relative levels, they'd take a fixed length of time (that is still a challenge but not suicide).
b) make all objects in essence 3 objects. An object that is destroyed is gone, how about if another immediately took it's place and cleared the aggro table? Set up the animations so that it gives a typical appearance (pristine, damaged, heavy damage, dead). NPCs would have to kill them 3 times, which would take more time.
c) change the Taunt cycles. Right now to get NPCs attack the Object puts out a weak taunt every X seconds. I think it triggers immediately, and if there was a way to create a delay to the Taunt power (only taunts after 60 seconds from spawn activation for example).
NPC AI and activation range- This would be a change that could borf a lot of other things, but if it's possible they could create AI scripts that don't activate as readily for the Object Defending spawns.
In the end, I'll say this mission has been problematic since Closed Beta for that issue. It infrequently comes up for discussion, but the problems remain. Here's hoping that before the devs dive into more improved complicated content, they take a look at things like this, and if the mission wasn't worth getting fixed for itself, they fix it by making a general fix that blankets everything.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
I will admit that this one doesnt spring to mind as easily as the rescuing the negotiators one(unsure of its official name), where you get the melee happy pistol using general vurses warhulks. pre-clearing helps, but suspends belief over a cage full of angry badgers. the general(aarons i think) is just too fragile and engages melee with an opponent who explodes far too often. I can protect him with my buffer characters by giving him enough buffs to confer stupid-insurance, but my poor brutes, scrappers and blasters.
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I saved his life by saving him, taking him to the entrance, and taking off at high speed. he managed to get "lost" and stayed out of the fighting.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
I will admit that this one doesnt spring to mind as easily as the rescuing the negotiators one(unsure of its official name), where you get the melee happy pistol using general vurses warhulks. pre-clearing helps, but suspends belief over a cage full of angry badgers. the general(aarons i think) is just too fragile and engages melee with an opponent who explodes far too often. I can protect him with my buffer characters by giving him enough buffs to confer stupid-insurance, but my poor brutes, scrappers and blasters.
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You did a lot better than me. I've only tackled it once. I was on a team with about five people. We all had the mission. First time, we zoned in and we were already under attack. We stood there fighting that spawn by the door for what felt like ten seconds, and then the mission failed. We set another person's mission and went back in. This time we decided to head straight for the generators. We found one and waded in. A few seconds later, mission failed. We set the next person's mission. We zoned in. We went looking for a generator. Mission failed. We hadn't even found one.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
What the hell, man? I just tried this mission, and do you know how long it took me to fail it? 30 seconds. If that. And I'm playing at -1. It went like.
"Where's the generator? There's a generator! Oh, it's broken! Where's the generator! There's a generator! Hurry! Oh, they broke it before I even got there! Where's the generator? There's a generator! Hurry! Oh, it's almost... Oh, they broke it! Where's the generator? MISSION FAILED!" |
After that, there was no way on earth I could convince my teammates to try again.
In retrospect, we probably shouldn't have spread out so much looking for the generators, but I'm not at all sure it would have mattered.
The Midnight mission to save Lady Grey I rather enjoy. On a defender, it's fun to try to keep her alive. On any other character, it's fun to laugh at her as she commits suicide. I did succeed once by sneaking past her and clearing the entire map, then coming back and rescuing her. I agree her AI could use some work, but the consequences are so low that I just don't care what happens to her.
The Croatoa one has never been a problem for me when I'm on a team. We always seem to have enough immobilizes or slows or AoE's or something to take care of it. Solo I have failed it on some characters, succeeded on others. To me the biggest problem with that mission is that it just isn't very fun. The mobs tend to come too slowly, and I hate standing around waiting. The Respec Trial, heroside, is like that too.
The five minute mission I've only managed once, and only thanks to my teammate. He was an ice tanker, and nothing could touch him. He somehow memorized where all the glowies would be and he ran over and clicked them. Nothing could interrupt him because every attack missed. I was on a regen scrapper, and nothing missed me. I could survive, but I had to wipe an entire room full of bad guys just to get enough clearance to click one glowie. He did all the rest.
I think it would be great if the game allowed for greater mission variety and storytelling options, but we're not there yet.
EDIT: Another reason why that Croatoa mission isn't fun - it doesn't seem to matter what I do, only who I am. If I'm on a controller, then I just hold them, which is what I do to everyone. If I'm on a scrapper, then I beat up one while the rest of the spawn runs past me and vanishes. One way succeeds and the other fails, but in both cases I'm doing pretty much the only thing I can do, and the result is depressingly predetermined.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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Yeah, I was about to comment on that one. I think this one is just bugged and just plain bad! I'm sent there to rescue these people, but I CAN'T LEAD THEM OUT! That's right, the only way to rescue C'Khelkah and General Arons is to literally kill everything else in the cave, while praying to your lucky star they don't die in the melee. Why aren't they escort objectives? Why can't I bring them to the entrance and have them run out? Isn't the POINT of the mission to save them?|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
I will admit that this one doesnt spring to mind as easily as the rescuing the negotiators one(unsure of its official name), where you get the melee happy pistol using general vurses warhulks. pre-clearing helps, but suspends belief over a cage full of angry badgers. the general(aarons i think) is just too fragile and engages melee with an opponent who explodes far too often. I can protect him with my buffer characters by giving him enough buffs to confer stupid-insurance, but my poor brutes, scrappers and blasters.
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I know, I know. The RWZ arcs are jam-packed with helper NPCs like they're going out of style, to the point where I'm not sure if there is ONE missions where you're alone without someone in tow. But still, even with an escort objective, I could still drag them around with me if I wanted to. All I have to do is not take them to the door, and they'll follow me. But if I WANTED to take them out so they don't die and fail my mission, I could.
I really don't get it. If the mission fails when they die, why can't I take them out? If I can't take them out, why does the mission fail when they die? It's a borderline conundrum.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This. I've done this mish a bunch and havent failed it yet. Done it with brutes, corrs a MM and stalkers. (My dom couldnt take SM)
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Originally Posted by Blood Spectre
Another thing that I find helpful is the following;
Get to the first generator asap, and then defend it with your life. Spam every aggro hogging power you can get, and stay by it until you've defeated every enemy anywhere near it. I think Ambushes spawn on it too, so stick around and keep an eye out. Once you've kept it clear and safe, ignore the other 3. You only have to save 1 of them. So once you've protected 1 from all comers you're free to rescue the Lois Lane knock off and then go get wtfpwned by Silver Mantis as many times as it takes. |
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Interesting, I don't think I have ever failed this one. On my archery/dev blaster and illusion/rad controller I just stealthed it, on my dm/sr scrapper I just ignored the mobs and clicked all the glowies and on my db/wp scrapper I also basically ignored the mobs unless they where near a glowie and only killed them when I had no other choice. I did almost fail it on my db/wp, but only because I went past one glowie without realizing it and had to go back. I think I had like 20 seconds left on that one.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Tina McIntyre, stop the Lab Raid or something like that. Not Malta, Anti-Matter Clockwork. That's the only mission in the entire game that's meant to be failed. FWIW, you get an SO for completing it, as I recall.
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I think the OP definitely has a point though - based on other feedback it sounds like the mission he failed has badly designed objectives, as it sounds like the mission makes you think you need to save the generators but you can't save them yourself, just not trigger their destruction.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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Sorry for the late post but at least that saves you a drop mission "slot" for that NEXT annoying misison. LoL
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Really, I'd save a mission drop for it, but... Entering the mission is actually faster than dropping it a lot of the time. Which is kind of funny. |
So many mission memories that made my lab clang from the ringing of the facepalm...thanks, you damn fleshies!
Yeah, I'll remember to avoid that one.
Ho boy, where to start? The most recent one was the one from Sister Airla, with the bugged level 40 spawn in a lvl 37 mission, with a Ballista no less. God, that hurt. I wouldnt have minded if a) Ghost Widow had been just a normal escort who couldn't be defeated or b) She had AV level stats rather than Boss ones, which resulted in the Ballista pasting her.
The Fur Bolg mission...owch. Managed to duo that with a scrapper friend and my emp/psi defender and ONLY because I had psi scream. Thank you gods for cone and aggro...Never have so many pumpkins caused so much stress.
And yes, the stupid, stupid escorts and their stupid, stupid AI. I think it will get to the point where even non-players will know about Fusionette and Faultline and their 'Oh NO, not you two!'-ness. And the Rikti diplomant and the General who don't leave the map, that's another fun one. I tend to run to the exit door anyway, after making sure its clear...then LEGGING it so fast they lose me, and then clean out everything else, before fetching them again.
The Lady Jane mission is actually easier Solo, as the spawns are smaller. Then you realise that, actually, shes not a bad fighter, especially when she starts bouncing CoT bosses off the walls with her pistols. They do some good damage, but are mostly single target. On teams, with larger spawns, she does die a lot, yes.
Ugh...A.I. is a cruel thing at times.
I know I can be 
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Don't worry, he didn't design that mission.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You know, it just occurs to me BABs tends to frown upon us using the word "stupid" haphazardly. Err... Oops! I have a feeling that'll turn around to bite me some time pretty soon.
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You only have to keep one generator 'alive.' As soon as you approach one of them, you trigger an ambush of three waves coming for that generator. If you can defeat the three waves then there will be no more foes coming to destroy that generator. Then you can leave that one there and go kill Silver Mantis and rescue Amanda without worrying about the generators anymore.
And if saving Amanda alone completes the mission, it should be bugged.
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The only real problem I've had with any of these missions is, well, I'm normally pretty weak. I mean, when I did my Thugs/Dark MM (best sets ever, by the way), there was about nothing that could stop me. I beat all of these missions, hands down.
But on my other, weaker, characters, problems crop up. For example, the "Get the News Out!" mission from Sam's OP. I can find Vines. I can stop the destruction of at least 1 Generator (keeping in mind that, for this mission at least, the attacker spawns are, oh, 3 minions). Then there's Silver Mantis who, under any settings, is auto-set to "Better Than You Are". Seriously, I think I've only beat her twice. And one time was when I was 4 levels higher than the mission. That's right, I tried to beat her for 3 levels and failed every time. If I recall, I only beat her by luck on the 4th level. Same problem with the Posi & Manti Robots - I can usually get Manticore with run-and-gun, but Positron has some super aggro-radar that makes him chase me and nuke me repeatedly.
Most of these other missions I've not really had problems with, but because I'm weak for once. My spawns are typically fairly small unless I'm on a team. I do want to mention the Pumpkinheads in Croatoa mission, though, because that one is just mean. Last time I beat it was only because I had Snowstorm and could get all of their attention on me. But if it dropped for a second, bam! 5 more in the portal. Same if I missed a group when they were double-spawning.
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sneaky, i like|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
I saved his life by saving him, taking him to the entrance, and taking off at high speed. he managed to get "lost" and stayed out of the fighting.
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What I do is run past her and her captors - don't engage them at all - just run all the way to the end room where the glowie is, then fight my way back to her, clearing a path between her and the glowie.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Haven't hit that one yet, but I was angered by one where I was supposed to rescue Lady Jane, only the second you rescue her she starts foaming at the mouth and attacking everything in the room, while ambushes pour down the hallway.
Plus she apparently dies if you breath on her too hard. |
This can be done with a team as well if everyone cooperates.
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Regardless of spawn size, the big breakdown in this mission comes from the way CoT Spectrals tend to work, and the way her AI works. Spectrals have the habit of Bolting on 5% hp. They fade to untargetable and fly off, then sneak back and attack a bit later. Problem is, if she's the one that is locked on them when it happens, she follows. Smaller spawns means it's more likely you can keep this from happening to her, but it's still where the mission breaks down most often.
| The Lady Jane mission is actually easier Solo, as the spawns are smaller. Then you realise that, actually, shes not a bad fighter, especially when she starts bouncing CoT bosses off the walls with her pistols. They do some good damage, but are mostly single target. On teams, with larger spawns, she does die a lot, yes. |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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While I was solo, that's more or less how my Ill/rad succeeded. She had both AoE holds, Phantom Army, and Spectral Terror and could disable/distract all the enemies in aggro range of a glowy so they wouldn't interrupt her. Without having to take the time to kill everything.|
Originally Posted by peterpeter
The five minute mission I've only managed once, and only thanks to my teammate. He was an ice tanker, and nothing could touch him. He somehow memorized where all the glowies would be and he ran over and clicked them. Nothing could interrupt him because every attack missed.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
As well, there seems to be a bug with script triggers that's been going around at least since the latest patch, and I suspect since I16 went Live. A LOT of scripted even triggers fire far, far, FAR too early. Like, I'll hear the end boss's dialogue as soon as I set foot inside a huge instance, and he's nowhere around me.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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This is it exactly. Just make sure one generator is completely defended. After you kill the mobs attacking it, stick around since an ambush group will attack it soon after. After beating the ambush group, kill any mobs nearby just in case. After you do this, you can take your time to save the reporter and then purple/purple/red/red/Shivan/nuke/nuke Silver Mantis.
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Originally Posted by Blood Spectre
Another thing that I find helpful is the following;
Get to the first generator asap, and then defend it with your life. Spam every aggro hogging power you can get, and stay by it until you've defeated every enemy anywhere near it. I think Ambushes spawn on it too, so stick around and keep an eye out. Once you've kept it clear and safe, ignore the other 3. You only have to save 1 of them. So once you've protected 1 from all comers you're free to rescue the Lois Lane knock off and then go get wtfpwned by Silver Mantis as many times as it takes. |
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Then there's the 74 ambushes that get sent after you. You tend to do these missions at the point where CoT have Ruin Mages, which are hard to deal with quickly, so the next ambush hits you before you've finished with the last one. Especially when Lady Jane dashes off after a Spectral that only she can see, as you point out.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Regardless of spawn size, the big breakdown in this mission comes from the way CoT Spectrals tend to work, and the way her AI works. Spectrals have the habit of Bolting on 5% hp. They fade to untargetable and fly off, then sneak back and attack a bit later. Problem is, if she's the one that is locked on them when it happens, she follows. Smaller spawns means it's more likely you can keep this from happening to her, but it's still where the mission breaks down most often.
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I wonder if this could be fixed if when they became untargetable they tripped the same code that makes game AI go "Lets ignore the sleeping/stunned guy while we have other targets".
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Originally Posted by Dr_Ohm
Then there's the 74 ambushes that get sent after you. You tend to do these missions at the point where CoT have Ruin Mages, which are hard to deal with quickly, so the next ambush hits you before you've finished with the last one. Especially when Lady Jane dashes off after a Spectral that only she can see, as you point out.
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"Get the News Out!" is annoying, but doable. I managed it on my Ninjas/Dark MM by saving one generator, then fighting Silver Mantis and saving the reporter.
I beat the ten minute timed mission from Tina McIntyre by Superspeeding through the mission. I beat it with about 10 seconds left on the clock.
I managed to save Lady Jane once with my Invul/SS Tank.
I did the stop 30 Fir Bolg mission solo with my Katana/SR Scrapper by getting extremely lucky.
Hardest mission I've run into is the one from Sister Airlia where you have to rescue Ghost Widow. A Ballista and about 25 assorted Longbow Lieutenents and Minions vs Boss class GW and a MM. Not pretty.
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I think that code only triggers when there are other enemies attacking her, so if they are aggroed onto you, she'll follow that Spectral into another group of enemies, then switch targets to this new bunch of enemies because they started attacking her.|
Originally Posted by Mr. NoPants
I wonder if this could be fixed if when they became untargetable they tripped the same code that makes game AI go "Lets ignore the sleeping/stunned guy while we have other targets".
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Though I will say that this mission became a lot easier when they changed how ambushes work, so that they move to where you were and don't automatically aggro on to you. (This also made life on my stalker much, much easier).
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Trust the computer. The computer knows all.
I managed to do that one on ill/rad also, guess that only invisible characters can do that one
Lady Grey is doable solo - but still haven't completed it in team, she always die to fast.
Done stop 30 Fir Blog From Escaping twice (solo and in team) and not planing to do it again.
Still have to try "Get the News Out!"
"If you want to win you must not lose."
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