OK, the "Get the News Out!" mission is officially stupid!
By
American_Valor,
Posted on: 2009-10-18 11:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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This may be my faulty memory because it's been quite awhile since I've run the generator mission, but I seem to remember Silver Mantis BEING an optional objective. Back when I used to run the RWZ arcs quite a bit because the Dark Watcher one especially gave loads and loads of prestige, (back when comm officer portals gave huge amounts), I seem to remember just ignoring Silver Mantis and she'd go away without causing the mission to fail. In fact, the only time I ever actually failed it was when I engaged her instead of saving the generators to start with.| Any chance of making the Silver Mantis fight optional? That's not the first time she's thrown into a mission as an objective for no good reason. (See Crash Cage.) Non-climactic use of AVs really cheapens them in my opinion, and gives me good reason to drop the mission even if you fix the generators. |
I remember finishing the mission with all the generators still alive soloing with a rad/rad corruptor. They must have seriously changed something in the interim.
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| Here's the thing, though - that's a cheat. Mind you, I do it every time I can, but a mission shouldn't be coded such that you have to AVOID saving the people you're supposed to be saving. It's like the Lady Grey mission - with all those hideously strong Vanguard bosses, it's usually better to pull the spawns guarding her away, so that you rescue her, but don't get her to follow you. That spawns the bosses to defeat on your way out, which you can do without Lady Grey in tow, thereby keeping her out of harm's way. And since enemies won't attack NPCs that aren't attached to you, she's perfectly safe. |
"No. You are NOT a superhuman. You CANNOT come with me. What you CAN do is stay here, not move and stay ALIVE."
The way you have to accomplish it is cheesy, yes, but keeping an old, overconfident blowhard from attacking things that have howitzers on their arms when he's nothing but an old, overconfident blowhard isn't cheating. It's smart.
Lemme see....
The "Get the news out" mission I've completed before. Sometimes I fail it. Depends on the character I play. Generally, my Brutes can do it just fine. Save a generator, make sure it's still functioning and not going to be walloped by any surprise Nemesis. It helps to be a Brute (or Scrapper/Tanker) that has a taunt aura. Protect it like you'd protect a poorly played Blaster: grab aggro, jump out of the way so that AoE doesn't catch the squishy, wallop enemies. Then go face Silver Mantis. If you survive her, you're generally golden. Obviously, knowing where everything is helps a whole lot. Also, having gigantic spawns (i.e. on a big team or your settings high) makes this difficult.
As for the Lady G rescue mission, again, play her like she's a very bad Blaster. Whatever you do on a team to save a very bad Blaster, you do to save her. The problem is surviving those damn pesky Vanguard, again, if your settings are high.
The Anti-Matter mission that's 10 minutes long, either take someone invisible or take someone very survivable (again, Scrappers and Tankers shouldn't have a problem), use your travel powers to get to the end as quickly as possible, complete mission.
The Fir Bolg mission is best done in a team. Man at least one person at each "entrance" to the area around the henge. This means you'll want minimum of one helper, better with a team of 3 or more, as you just let the scout signal when enemies approach, and everyone goes to help before resetting positions.
Also a Vanguard mission, the rescue the delegates one often gives me a lot of headache. Generally, any mission that involves Nemesis and defending something squishy is a headache. Same rules apply, though. Have a team, preferably with someone who can heal and someone who can hold aggro. Some Controllers can pull this off solo. Again, Scrappers and Tankers fare relatively well, too.
The missions I really hate are the ones where you need a team just to finish (i.e. multiple glowies that need to be clicked at the same time), but they're rare and, well, the solutions are simple: get a team or drop the mission. Generally, these missions don't do anything but hurt your pride when failed, and also are usually available via Ouroborous (though I believe the "fix" to lock difficulty also affected O, which if true, I highly dislike--I haven't checked lately).
Though I admit that there are times when I've failed all these missions (and more), I can safely say that I haven't run across a single mission in this game that I haven't beaten at least once. I don't even consider myself a great player, either. But once you figure it out, and you have a decent character, they're pretty do-able.
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Well it seems that friendly NPC's (unsurprisingly) use the same AI as other NPC's, so once a target is on their aggro list it doesn't matter if the target activates stealth abilities. i've had pets finish off invisible Spectrals for me many times. Occasionally taking them down as they return while still invisible. So it's not so much a matter of pathing as LJ following the Spectral wherever it goes once it aggroes her.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
It has more to do with the same phenomena that leads to Drunk Stagger foes that head off to the hinterlands. Once the AI makes a decision about where it's moving, it doesn't change that decision except under specific circumstances. So we have the Spectral run off, LJ decides to chase it. They both pick the same endpoint for their path and head to it, then the Spectral disappears. All within the space of less than a second.
My assumption is, that this problem is just as hard to fix as the drunk stagger for an escaping mob is. |
i think the funniest is when a Lightning Storm does it for me: "Wasn't there another one?" *KABOOM* "Waaaaiiilllll..." "Right, moving on."
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I don't get why people rag on the guard the magic mushroom exit mission, I can solo it on my MA/Inv (I think he's invulnerable) scrapper. All you do is run back and forth between the two entrances they use and hit them before they get there. You won't get them all but you don't need to.
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The Talk to PvP one is definitely a waste of a mission drop -- it doesn't take very long to just go do it. I drop it on principle alone. That and I've heard that dropping a mission sets a flag on the mission, so that if a particular mission gets dropped a lot, it gets brought to the developers' attention. That may not actually be true, but even if it's not, it should be visible by data mining, so it at least makes me feel better that I'm doing my part to report these "broken" missions |
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
Personally, I feel that dropping this one is a waste of a mission drop (same with dropping the 'Talk to PvP rep" missions. Because as soon as you drop, then you get a mission that you really wish you could drop now instead of having to wait 3 days (like a "click the glowies simultaneously" mission, or yet another "Hunt X enemies in Zone Y... where the enemies are mostly +3 and +4 to you).
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That said I can't remember the last time I needed my mission drop for legitimate reasons. I very rarely solo these days, either duo or a team of 5-6, so simul-click and +4 enemies aren't insurmountable. I think the last bugged mission I came across was a radio mission, either the bank or the pawn shop, that didn't complete despite defeating everyone on the map. Rather than burn the drop I just reset it and got more XP/inf/prestige.
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Except with Valor I have never gotten the news out. |
Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
I've had this mission fail while standing at the entrance and buffing. We hadn't even moved yet. The mobs attacked as soon as we started zoning. It's bugged. It's been bugged for a long time, longer than I16.
The Sister Airla mission has been spawning level 40 bosses regardless of level every time I've attempted it. Lady Jane needs buffs, a tank to hold aggro, or to be ignored and the map cleared. The 30 Firbolg needs immob, hold, or sleep - basically a controller - to succeed. The 5 min lab mission needs invisibility and super speed if you're soloing. By comparison Fusionette and Faultline are way easy. I usually keep these two alive. |
Autocomplete you fail Thanks for looking into this Heronee, I mean Hero 1.Valor
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by Star Ranger 4 WIN LOSE OR DRAW, WE WILL FIGHT. WE ARE HEROES This is what we DO! |
Decide that this will be another day in which you Walk The Talk.
MA #14724 Operation: Discredit @American Valor
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He's a bit of a bird?|
Originally Posted by American_Valor
Except with Valor I have never gotten the news out.
Autocomplete you fail Thanks for looking into this Heronee, I mean Hero 1.Valor |
Thinkya mean 'Honoree'
Which should actually be 'Honouree', but hey, them crazy yanks and all...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You obviously get luck, or have enough of a threat rating that the pumpkin heads will aggro on you just from being there.|
Originally Posted by Mr. NoPants
I don't get why people rag on the guard the magic mushroom exit mission, I can solo it on my MA/Inv (I think he's invulnerable) scrapper. All you do is run back and forth between the two entrances they use and hit them before they get there. You won't get them all but you don't need to.
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Most of the time? They simply ignore you and leg it into the gate. This requires AoEs to actually aggro them and, usually on a melee class, thats rather hard.
Hell, even on other classes, its been damn hard.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I guess I'm lucky, I've run that mission several times, I only failed it once, which was the very first time and I just zoned into the mish.
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I say it's a cheat because you're having to game the system to overcome shoddy design and emulate good design. If you could bring C'Khelkah and Arons to the exit and have them leave (like the briefing suggests you should be able to), then bringing them to the door and leaving them IS the right way to go. As it stands, though, you have to cheat the AI into intentionally losing sight of you so they don't follow, thereby manually overriding the "Working As Intended" solution. Yes, I fully realise that the WAI solution is bad, but effectively hot-wiring the system to avoid it IS a cheat.|
Originally Posted by Sister_Twelve
I don't regard the leave the general at the front door tactic a cheat. That's just your character slipping and falling into a pile of sense.
"No. You are NOT a superhuman. You CANNOT come with me. What you CAN do is stay here, not move and stay ALIVE." The way you have to accomplish it is cheesy, yes, but keeping an old, overconfident blowhard from attacking things that have howitzers on their arms when he's nothing but an old, overconfident blowhard isn't cheating. It's smart. |
Of course, I'm not saying we should stop doing it. On the contrary, they should fix the mission so that that's the "correct" way to go.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The AI not following if you get too far ahead is WAI.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I say it's a cheat because you're having to game the system to overcome shoddy design and emulate good design. If you could bring C'Khelkah and Arons to the exit and have them leave (like the briefing suggests you should be able to), then bringing them to the door and leaving them IS the right way to go. As it stands, though, you have to cheat the AI into intentionally losing sight of you so they don't follow, thereby manually overriding the "Working As Intended" solution. Yes, I fully realise that the WAI solution is bad, but effectively hot-wiring the system to avoid it IS a cheat.
Of course, I'm not saying we should stop doing it. On the contrary, they should fix the mission so that that's the "correct" way to go. |
When "rescuing" Lady Jane, I find the easiest way to go by far is to bypass her encounter (either stealth or run) and clear the map back-to-front. If you do that, you can generally lead her to the chest before the ambushes catch up to you. The only thing you have to watch out for is that she doesn't start following you until her dialogue completes.
No critters to fight, no crazy AI antics. Problem solved.
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Level 40+ mission means carrying 16 lucks is no big deal. So long as you remember that it's coming this mission is a snap.|
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
Invisibility or high defense so you can click the glowies and ignore the mobs. SR, PFF or the like will have it pretty easy.
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Ignore the mobs till you get to the glowie, pop 4 lucks, click glowie, move on.
I'm proud to say, I've beaten this mission, plenty of times. Best record is doing it with 4 min. to spare.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Poetic justice would be to give the generators that same hit points as those ridiculous mole machines: you know, the ones that take forever and a day at the end of Black Scorpion's third arc when you have to kill 4 of them? You can almost hear the Nemesis army going "what the heck are these things made of?" as they wail away for 5 minutes, doing roughly 10% of the hit points of one...
Of course, then you'd have to make sure that it didn't carry over to the Marshall Brass mission...
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Naw, it's always been in Peregrine. You have never had to zone for this mission.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I don't think that last part was always consistently true, but it's been a long time, because we haaaates it so much.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Jump into the group, AoE. Anything that was outside of your radius, smack with Nemesis Staff/Blackwand/origin power or just chase down. They'll generally stick with you for quite a while after you damage them, particularly if you have a taunt aura on. I've done it on several melee characters and never really had a problem with this method, but I can see how it could be problematic for one with very small AoEs and no taunt aura, like MA/Regen.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
You obviously get luck, or have enough of a threat rating that the pumpkin heads will aggro on you just from being there.
Most of the time? They simply ignore you and leg it into the gate. This requires AoEs to actually aggro them and, usually on a melee class, thats rather hard. Hell, even on other classes, its been damn hard. |
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
I remember when this mission was unofficially stupid. I'm glad its finally gotten some recognition by the devs and made "officially" stupid.
Because, you are right, it is.
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The problem is, the mission statement is misleading. It's really a "defeat all" mission with a twist.|
Originally Posted by Monkey_King
I don't get it. The "Stop 30 Fir Bolg From Escaping" mission never gave me that much trouble.
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| That said, "Get the News Out" is really nuts. It doesn't even function like other object defense missions in the game. Normally you're suppose to take out the guards before enemies come to destroy the objectives. This one is made even worse by the fact that, by this level, enemies can snipe from a ridiculous ways away. You have to run way out and intercept the Nemesis well before they're anywhere near the generators. This is... difficult for a solo player. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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That's never worked for me. As soon as the things start running, they will ignore EVERYTHING and just run. AoE doesn't work, they just keep on running. Taunt auras don't work. Hell, TAUNT doesn't work. They just keep on running. There has been literally NO way for me to stop these things, and they run too fast for me to chase them down and kill them before they get to the door.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
Jump into the group, AoE. Anything that was outside of your radius, smack with Nemesis Staff/Blackwand/origin power or just chase down. They'll generally stick with you for quite a while after you damage them, particularly if you have a taunt aura on. I've done it on several melee characters and never really had a problem with this method, but I can see how it could be problematic for one with very small AoEs and no taunt aura, like MA/Regen.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Used to be you could finish this mission okay. I dashed to a generator and stopped the attackers (though it was being defended by some Vanguard as well), so it worked out. Once I cleared the attackers, it was safe for the rest of the mission, even when that Mantis woman got a couple lucky shots in on my SR Scrapper and dropped him. I went to the hospital and came back, and the generator was still okay.
I wouldn't be surprised if it could go wonky with some of the spawn issues that crop up, though. I love the newer Midnighter missions heroside, but sometimes you can't complete some of the missions in the last arc when bosses don't spawn like they're supposed to.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Oh, I agree. But then, this is almost always true of combat NPCs when you're playing solo|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Here's the thing, though - that's a cheat. Mind you, I do it every time I can, but a mission shouldn't be coded such that you have to AVOID saving the people you're supposed to be saving. It's like the Lady Grey mission - with all those hideously strong Vanguard bosses, it's usually better to pull the spawns guarding her away, so that you rescue her, but don't get her to follow you. That spawns the bosses to defeat on your way out, which you can do without Lady Grey in tow, thereby keeping her out of harm's way. And since enemies won't attack NPCs that aren't attached to you, she's perfectly safe.
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in low difficulties - lt-grade pets roll over quicker than a lazy dog. It's not unique to one
or two missions. General Bonehead just rushes to get it over with a little quicker than the
rest.
I don't really consider it "cheating" to find alternate ways to complete missions. Am I
"supposed" to fight my way through every single mob in a mission with a short timer, rather
than run past/stealth to the objective? It's more or less the same thing.
As stated though, I do find it an awkward and unneccesary way to do it, were the game
playing fair with you. "Cheating" would be getting access to GM instant-kill commands and
slaying everything on the map at once to complete the mission.
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I beat it on my Peacebringer. Basically, I'd fly in Nova form away from the gate, fire at something to aggro it and fly back. Then I'd blast the enemies who by then would be coming for the gate; then shortly thereafter the group I shot at would show up as well. All that AoE knockback was usually enough to keep them from escaping. Tedious but it worked.
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Originally Posted by MTS__
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
I'd like to add any hunt missions with Council to this list. While I don't mind hunts, the 5th resurgence has made them harder to find and half the time they get killed before you get there.
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Indeed. Also, any hunt mission that's restricted to a specific neighborhood. Unlike zone-specific hunts, there are no clear delineations between neighborhoods (the popup neighborhood names aren't precise enough for this purpose), and in the course of hunting it's entirely possible to stray out of the one you're supposed to be in, leading to wasted effort and annoyance.
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Originally Posted by Zamuel
I'd like to add any hunt missions with Council to this list.
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Gosh Sam you're so negative
(read sarcasm)
but yes this mission is hard but once you do it a few hundred times you won't fail it that often
Virtue: @Santorican
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