Notes on new team difficulty settings
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-08-26 15:02 in The Market and Inventions
I did some runs on the wall in Cim this morning. My results were 1230 defeats including 7 bosses and 128 lieutenants. This produced 28 Pool A recipes and 112 salvage. The drop rates are 2.04% and 8.80% respectively.
The 95% confidence on this run is 1.36% to 2.94%. i.e. it's consistent with both the Wiki drop rate and the drop rates we've been seeing on test. It is better than my other runs in Cim though.
I've released a new version of DropStats. (0.2.1) This is much better tested than the previous version (0.2) and fixes lots of minor bugs.
Quote:
very nice Archie!|
Originally Posted by Archie Gremlin
I've released a new version of DropStats. (0.2.1) This is much better tested than the previous version (0.2) and fixes lots of minor bugs.
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i'll check it out when I get home.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Has anyone tried to gather drop rate data on live, to see if we get similar spread? I know we've gotten confirmation that the live settings match those on the wiki, but I'm wondering if the drop rates on really line up with the wiki.
I know we did this by thumb using TopDoc's purple thread, but I'm wondering what lives data really looks like.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I did a series of runs on the Wall in Cimerora between the 20th and 28th August. The overall results were consistent with the Wiki drop rates.
The runs produced 6,153 defeats including 648 Lts and 19 bosses.
Live drop rates from the Wall
167 Pool A recipes.
Drop rate of 2.44% with 95% confidence interval of 2.09% to 2.84%.
450 salvage.
Drop rate of 7.89% with 95% confidence interval of 7.20% to 8.62%.
It's very noticeable that the pattern of runs looks completely different to the ones we get in beta. For one thing, 9 out of 10 of the runs have averages that fall in the 95% confidence range for the published drop rate and 3 runs have averages above the mean.
In contrast, only 3 out of 7 of the runs I did on beta are in the 95% confidence range for the old drop rate. Non of them had a drop rate above the expected value.
From 9/11. +0/x4, running papers in Grandville
652 defeats (56 bosses, 159 Lts, 436 minions - smallish sample)
Salvage drops: 75 (63 common, 12 uncommon)
Common Recipes: 17
Uncommon recipes: 1
Rare recipes: 1
From 9/13. -1/x8, papers and Borea mostly
1600 defeats (143 underlings, 1062 minions, 288 Lt's, 107 bosses)
Salvage drops: 128 (104 common, 20 uncommon, 4 rare)
Common recipes: 14
Uncommon recipes: 1
Rare recipes: 2
Looks like the idea they fixed it was premature, although I saw MUCH better drop rates with it set to +0/x4 than with -1/x8.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
Quote:
What ? ... I think some of that was English. Something about going to bed with people that are not farmers, and someone else or not someone else. And everyone being happy. Something about nerfing a farm bin being done ? Apathy about CO keeping their three boxes open on I 16 with fifty jets solo ? Something about issue of only harch and deprive the casuals ? It appears to be a usual occurrence. And they enjoy both worlds.|
Originally Posted by bracass
I bed most of you are anti-farmers, besides Nether, and a few more, so, all fine, everyone should be happy, call this a nerf, farmers to the bin, done, and over.
I dont really care, since i play CO now, but i still keep my triple box open since I 16.(just so i solo my 50's 50, and jet.) Basically, this issue only harch and deprive the casuals. As usual. Best of both worlds^^  . |
Yeah ... I'm sure this makes perfect sense in some way, shape, or form.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Morbid Star
What ? ... I think some of that was English. Something about going to bed with people that are not farmers, and someone else or not someone else. And everyone being happy. Something about nerfing a farm bin being done ? Apathy about CO keeping their three boxes open on I 16 with fifty jets solo ? Something about issue of only harch and deprive the casuals ? It appears to be a usual occurrence. And they enjoy both worlds.
Yeah ... I'm sure this makes perfect sense in some way, shape, or form. |
I bet he is going to have one hellva hangover in the morning.
Card Carrying DeFulmenstrator--Member Crazy 88s
We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
Hi!
I played my 50 Brute today on I16 live servers and as i feared i noticed/feeled that recipe drops indeed seem to be somehow broken.
Simply put, i have no numbers but by simply comparing what i used to get pre-I16 with what i am getting now, something definitely seem wrong.
I soloed two times the Midnight Hand story arc set for 1 player at normal difficulty ( 6 door missions ) and all i got is one single level 50 Endurance Reduction recipe from a CoT Lieutnant in mission 1. That's all.
Pre-I16, not getting at least one single recipe per mission was a really rare event and most of the time i used to get 3-4 recipes per mission.
Anyway, if things are working as intended i am then sorry to say that thw whole thing will get boring very fast. And no, i am not willing to set my missions for 6-8 players just in order to get 3-4 recipes.
Color me disappointed i guess. Random Recipe drops really is a thing that kept my interest in the game for the last years and i hope devs are actively monitoring the situation of rewards awarded to solo players that do not toy with the difficulty settings.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
recipe drops are borked, badly.
ran my zombie map spawned for 8 twice, got one IO recipe and three generics.
Quite a bit less than I'd have expected from one unpadded run on Tenacious before I16.
But blowing through aaaaaaall those zombies sure was fun!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Got two purples doing Ouros arcs on my brute. Got zilch farming on my brothers fire/kin.
Active 50's
Darklocked (dm/sd Brute)
Wardman (Fire/sd Scrapper)
Congealer (ice/cold Corruptor)
Peroxisome (mind/psi Dominator)
Evil Thing (Fire/Kin Corruptor)
Proud Member of Repeat-Offenders
Well, i ran my demon farm 2 times dual boxed. I'm getting drops galore. No purp yet but filled up salvage both times and a ton of commons and a few set recipes.
omg hay guise why aren't purples 5 mil each yet? JEEEEEEEEEEEZ
I spent a very limited amount of time farming standard content today. Got some common salvage and recipes, a few pieces of rare salvage, and one crappy set recipe. Go figure the first thing to drop in my Battle Maiden farm was a respec recipe, which went to the lowbie I was PLing who wasn't my second account. 
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Did one run of nemesis farm set to +2/x8 no bosses, got 3 recipes the entire run. Did half a run after that, same settings but with bosses, got 5 recipes, plus an Oblit proc from a Hulk. Recipe drops are definately borked.
For reference, before i16 soloing an 8man map on relentless would easily fill my recipe tray and then some. I'd have to delete trashy invention recipes to make room about 3/4 of the way around. I would estimate I would get on average 25-30 recipes a run.
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Live server results (post-I16), 0x6
Total: 1512 enemies (1224/288)
Expected recipes drop: 48
Effective recipes drop: 33 = 68.8% of expected
Quote:
ROFLMO!!!!|
Originally Posted by Morbid Star
What ? ... I think some of that was English. Something about going to bed with people that are not farmers, and someone else or not someone else. And everyone being happy. Something about nerfing a farm bin being done ? Apathy about CO keeping their three boxes open on I 16 with fifty jets solo ? Something about issue of only harch and deprive the casuals ? It appears to be a usual occurrence. And they enjoy both worlds.
Yeah ... I'm sure this makes perfect sense in some way, shape, or form. |
I am still laughing and your answer to the poster. I re-read his statment a few times and could not come up with any logical thought stream... Too Funny
Just ran a Mother Mayhem +0/Spawned for 8/+bosses.
My main and second account only got 1 standard IO recipe each =(
3boxed the Demon map.
Ran through 14 spawns and got 2 recipe drops across all 3 toons.
That was all I needed to see (or not see, I guess) so I stopped there.
Repeat Offenders
No numbers here really, but I just ran 2 missions back to back solo set for +1/x4 and got ONE recipe drop off an enemy defeat. Obviously two missions is a very limited amount to base anything off of, but it sure seems to me that something is off.
Quote:
The current behavior on live is exactly the same behavior we documented on Test without much comment from the dev team. There will be inexplicable accounts/runs who get good drops and good luck when it comes to recipes, but most of us were seeing 50-70% of the old drop rates. Mine weren't even that good, most of the time. |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
No numbers here really, but I just ran 2 missions back to back solo set for +1/x4 and got ONE recipe drop off an enemy defeat. Obviously two missions is a very limited amount to base anything off of, but it sure seems to me that something is off.
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I ran a pair of PACKED maps yesterday (one the same Council map I used for most of my testing, one a packed map of Longbow) and over the course of ~600-700 kills, saw 4 recipe drops.
The psychology of the drop rate is an important thing to understand. What we're on, from a behaviorist perspective, is a variable ratio reinforcement schedule. We know that if we repeat the same activity often enough (defeating mobs) we get a desired result (recipe drop), but we don't know exactly how many times we have to perform that activity to get the reward. This continues to be motivating as long as the individual performing the behavior has a reasonable expectation that, "The next one could be the big one!" It's the same principle that keeps people pulling slot machine levers all day, or rats pressing bars to try to get a food pellet.
The problem is that if the ratio of performance/reward becomes too low, the motivation to continue working for the reward is diminished. Rats stop pushing bars. People walk away from the slots. Players stop logging in.
At least one person in this thread has already said as much in the one day this has been live, if not in those exact words: the current drop rate makes drops infrequent enough to lose their motivating power. Whatever the issue is that has led to the decrease in recipe drops, I very much hope the devs will be able to datamine what it is that differentiates the characters that get drops consistent with old drop rates from those that don't (other than random chance; I'm hoping there's a legit bug here somewhere!) and get it fixed so that we can go back to getting our shinies.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Demon farm
+0 x5 Solo
3 Generic recipes
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+0 x6 Dualboxed single run
Main--
2 Generic Recipes
1 Set (Thunderstrike Dam/Rech)
Second account--
5 Generic Recipes
0 Set
Will do some serious +0 x8 w/Boss runs later dualboxed, will do about 4-5 runs then post the results 
Global: @NR
POHSYB: We've been in this meeting for six hours. Can I go back to my box?
BLUE STEEL: No.
Pohsyb sighs.
People wanting to contribute to the stat gathering might want to take a look at Archie's DropStats, which will automatically tally up the different drops types, as well as minion, lt and boss kills from your game log, and thereby make reporting accurate stats much easier. I thought I'd mention it again, as the link is a few pages back, now.
www.glasspaw.com/dropstats
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
I'll do some Dropstat runs- last night I was too excited to get in, fiddle with power customization and check out some 8-spawn maps to do anything but log in directly.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
While I am annoyed at the reduced drop rate I am quite happy with the new difficulty settings. At "-1, =3 heroes, with bosses" meant a lot of bosses in my arc run and I finally got a Pool C drop off a boss.
And To Save a Thousand Worlds bump to 43 from 32 merits is going to net me a lot more rare recipes.
I hope they don't have to mess with spawnings to fix the drop shortage because I can tell getting the right difficulty for my guys is going to be a lot of guesswork for me.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
It looks like I may have been overly optimistic in my willingness to say that this was fixed. Oh well. Can anyone else run on the TV Don map and see if they come up with a good drop rate? That was the only map where I've been above expected since beta started, but I've only run it once.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.